Full page content became empty

[ScreenHelp]

Hi - is there a size limit to RH7 pages, or any other problem that would cause the entire contents of a page to disappear?

I created a page on our server (not my desktop) and worked on it for several days. All of a sudden, I couldn't access any images in my DHTML dropdown boxes. This used to happen in RH6, so I thought it was a similar problem.

I shut down RoboHelp, thinking that refreshing it would help. When I opened it up, I saw three error messages. These messages didn't appear to be associated with my page, but they might have been. The three messages indicated that a link was missing and some information wouldn't appear in the TOC. As my document was in a file that had been ported from another area, I thought it might be possible that a few links weren't good (the project was under construction).

When I clicked on my page (the title WAS in the TOC), the page was blank. When I clicked on its HTML tab, that showed just a few lines of code, as though the page was not worked on.

Does anyone have any ideas about what might have happened? Is there an error log I could look at?

Thanks in advance, Karen

[Peter Grainge]

The problem is that you have your project on a network drive.

RH is designed to work with the project being local. You can use source control to have the files on a network but when you check them out, they become local.

Move the project to your hard disk.

[Karen_Little]

Hi Peter, It's me (Karen) under a different login. First, thanks for previous help you gave me in helping our department determine that the upgrade to version 7 was worthwhile. I was not able to respond at that time with an official "thank you."

Would it be possible for you to expand a bit on the "do not work on a server" issue? The department I work for has a policy of encouraging work on the server (although some individuals don't) and I'm sure my supervisor would appreciate some additional technical information on the subject as to why this is a bad idea.

[Bosch_pb]

Hi Peter et al.

I've been a good boy and searched the forum before posting.  This topic seems to be the closest fit, but there is a crucial difference:

Our RH projects are on local drives when we edit them, but they are checked out of the networked  Microsoft Team Foundation Server (TFS) which we use for source code management, bug tracking etc.

When this local copy is opened in RH7  most of the pages are visible in the editor but some of the pages are not.  If one closes the project and opens it again it is always the same files that are invisible, so not random.  Random is only which tech writer it strikes, when and for how long.  So far we have not been able to figure out what the (in)visible pages have in common. The files are properly checked out, i.e. the write-locks are off. The files are likely to have been edited by a different user last time they were checked into TFS.

I say invisible not empty files because:

• The RH page preview function still shows the content - only the editor does not
• If you open the corresponding htm file outside of RH (say Internet Explorer FrontPage or something) the old content is there.

Woe betide you however if you save the page in RH.  In that case RH overwrites the old content with emptiness!

Like the famous "Can't find MS Word" problem we had last year for printed documentation (*), this problem strikes us three tech writers at random and then, ( as soon as our deadlines are missed and the project screwed) can mysteriously disappear again.

Grateful for any support

bosch_pb

(*) http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=454&threadid=1363595&forumid=65.

[Peter Grainge]

Fools tread...  (Haven't forgotten last time you posted. )

I am not going to revisit THAT thread to check so I need to know you have applied all patches. I recall you have but want to be sure.

Do you check the CPD in and out? I believe from those folks who live with the misery of source control, that doing so does cause problems. There is a Snippet on my site about what should not be checked in.

Have you tried renaming the CPD so that RH builds a new one?

Other than the Blank Topics on Upgrade item in Using RH7 on my site, which was fixed by Patch 1, I don't think anyone has reported this problem. Given the preview works, this sounds more like a RH problem than source control but maybe one of the source control gurus knows otherwise?

---

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[Bosch_pb]

Hi Peter, and thanks as ever for the prompt reply.

BTW "Angels tread... Fools rush in"

We have tried the following:

1. bosch_pb checks the files out  (NB bosch_pb was the person who last checked them IN )
2. bosch_pb opens the project locally in RH7
3. bosch_pb CAN see all the pages in the editor
4. bosch_pb closes the project in RH and cancels the checkout (undo pending changes)
5. bosch_nm checks the files out (nb bosch_nm also has RH7 from the same Adobe Technical Communications Suite.
6. bosch_nm renames the checked-out .CPD file to .XXX
7. bosch_nm opens the project locally in RH7
8. bosch_nm CANNOT see certain (the same as before) pages in the editor (he sees a blank page)
9. bosch_nm can see general header info for that page in the HTML view in the editor, but no content
10. bosch_nm CAN see the original contents in preview mode, but of course can't edit them.
11. bosch_nm saves the project to his local disk --> the invisible files get overwritten by the content-less HTML skeleton. Now they really are blank.

I also searched for a topic called "Blank Topics on Upgrade" on www.grainge.org but didn't find it.  Could you possibly send an exact pointer? 

How do I tell if I have Patch1 ?   The RH-version in Help->About is 7.02.001.   If bosch_nm does not have this patch, where can he download it?

I agree that RoboHelp, with its myriad undocumented little file-types, is an absolute nightmare for source control, but as project co-workers we have no choice.  Documents are source-controlled here just like source-code, and there are good reasons for this.

kind regards

bosch_pb

[Peter Grainge]

The first thing is you seem to be checking in and out the CPD. Please see Snippets on that. I'll bow to Leon and the other source control gurus on whether that is the cause but I know they all say, don't.

If you have Patch 2, you must have installed Patch 1. Again you should all be on the same patch. Help > Updates is the route.

When I searched on Blank topics on upgrade, the Using RH7 was the second item. See item 14 at http://www.grainge.org/pages/authoring/rh7/using_rh7.htm

---

See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[MergeThis]

As Peter mentioned, the .cpd file should not be in source control at all (as well as the .hhp, .pss, and .ldb files).

Therefore, your step 6 seems to be the source of your "absolute nightmare."

Good luck,

Leon

[Bosch_pb]

Thank you gentlemen,

Well, I can't pretend that we haven't been keeping the .cpd .pss .hhp under source control  (as far as I can see the .ldb file only exists during an edit).

All we can do is pretend that we didn't have them in source control by deleting these files before invoking RoboHelp.   So here are the results of the next tests:

TEST-2:

Remember, the project files were last all checked in by me (bosch_pb)

1. bosch_nm checks out all project files to his local disk
2. bosch_nm deletes *.cpd *.pss *.hhp from his local disk  (there is no  .ldb file present).
3. bosch_nm starts RH (from the xpj file)
4. RESULT:  bosch_nm still can't see certain (the same)  .htm files in the editor (but can see them in preview)

TEST-3:

1. bosch_pb checks all files (including cpd, pss, hhp) out to his local drive
2. bosch_pb copies all the file (now writable) to a network drive N:
3. bosch_nm tries to open the project from by clicking the .xpj file on N:
4. RESULT: No change: bosch_nm still can't see certain (the same)  .htm files in the editor (but can see them in preview)
5. Note:  bosch_pb CAN open the project on the network drive N: and see everything in the editor, i.e. the network drive is no impediment.

TEST-4:

1. bosch_nm copies all the files from N: to his local drive
2. bosch_nm tries to open the project from by clicking the .xpj file on his local drive:
3. RESULT: No change: bosch_nm still can't see certain (the same)  .htm files in the editor (but can see them in preview)

TEST-5: (using the same files as from TEST-4)

1. bosch_nm deletes *.cpd *.pss *.hhp from his local disk  (there is no  .ldb file present).
2. bosch_nm starts RH (from the xpj file)
3. RESULT:  No change.  bosch_nm still can't see certain (the same)  .htm files in the editor (but can see them in preview)

TEST-6: (using the same files from TEST-5, i,e, *.cpd *.pss *.hhp are still absent)

1. bosch_nm starts project in RH
2. From RH-project manager bosch_nm right-clicks an "invisible" page and calls the Notepad editor on it.  The original contents are visible.  So far so good.
3. bosch_nm makes a trivial change (deletes a blank and replaces it) in Notepad and saves the file.
4. bosch_nm closes and reopens the project in RH
5. RESULT:  No change.  bosch_nm still can't see (the same)  .htm file in the editor (but can see them in preview, Notepad, FrontPage etc.)

TEST-7: (using the same files from TEST-6)

1. From RH-project manager bosch_nm right-clicks an "invisible" page and calls the Notepad editor on it.  The original contents are visible.  So far so good.
2. bosch_nm makes a trivial change (deletes a blank and replaces it) in Notepad and saves the file.
3. In the file system bosch_nm makes a copy of the htm file under the name Test,htm
4. Back in RH, bosch_nm imports Test.htm in the Project manager.
5. RESULT: No change.  The contents of Test.htm are visible in preview, Notepad, Frontpage, Word, just NOT in the RH-Editor

So what is hidden in the htm code which makes it RH-editable for bosch_pb and not for bosch_nm ?

[Peter Grainge]

I'm shooting in the dark here.

What if you get a project out of source control completely, you edit it and check you see it in Design Editor. Instead of checking it in and out, zip it up and copy it to NM who unzips it locally. Can NM then see the topic?

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[Bosch_pb]

you edit it and check you see it in Design Editor. Instead of checking it in and out, zip it up and copy it to NM who unzips it locally. Can NM then see the topic?

Well, apart from the actual zipping /unzipping this is what we did with tests 3, 4 5 etc.  above.  In every case I (bosch_pb) can see all the pages in the design/editor view,  but NM can see certain pages only in preview and non-RH editors.

However there is a more promising avenue to explore:

It turns out NM has only version 7.00.145!   We are going to try the setup_7_0_2.exe I got from somewhere last year.  Will post results here.

Note:  When he clicks Help > Updates... he gets a popup saying "There are no updates available at this time".  Yet he reamins on 7.00 despite the fact that his Updater Preferences are set to check once a week and download automatically.

For posterity, please could you say:

• what is the official link/location to get patch 7.02?  (if the updater doesn't work).
• does one have to install 7.01 first, or are the patches cumulative?

[Bosch_pb]

We are going to try the setup_7_0_2.exe I got from somewhere last year.  Will post results here.

What happens is this:

1. You start the exe and a popup appears offering only one choice, namely to deinstall the application!
2. Of course you don't want to do that, you want an update, so you just hit Next
3. The exe goes away and pushes a progress bar then returns to say it has finished.
4. When you restart RH and click Help>About the version has not changed  7.00.145

Do we really have to select "deinstall" in order to get an update? Is a reboot necessary (no hint from the .exe on this).

Else, where can we get a proper setup.exe for patch 7.0.2?

Thanks in advance

bosch_pb

[MergeThis]

The RH7 patches are 1, 2, and 3. They must be installed in sequence.

Good luck,

Leon

[Bosch_pb]

Ok, to answer my own question for posterity:  If your updater, like ours, does not work, the updates can be found at

http://www.adobe.com/support/robohelp/downloads.html

We will install 7.0.1 and 7.0.2 in sequence, as suggested by Leon (thanks!) and post the results here.

+pb

[Bosch_pb]

We installed 7.0.1 and 7.0.2 (*) in sequence without selecting the "Remove" radio button in each case.

Some files were apparently copied over, according to the flickering display of files in the popup windows.

Reboted the PC, just to make sure we got all registry changes.

RESULT: Help>About still shows 7.00.145   -->  Does this mean the update did not work? If so, how do we make it work?

RESULT: No change in visibility of the affected files in the project.

+pb

(*) 7.0.3 only relevant to Japanese.

[MergeThis]

I'm not sure why you've become fixated on 7.0.2, buy why won't you also install 7.0.3?

If you are working with the most current version of RH7, this is one less environmental issue that we users have to consider in attempting to help you resolve your problem.

Good luck,

Leon

[Bosch_pb]

I'm not sure why you've become fixated on 7.0.2, buy why won't you also install 7.0.3?

Well, 3 reasons:

• My RH7 shows the invisible files with 7.0.2 already
• Because the readme for this patch contains nothing relevant (Japanese and export to RH Server 8)
• After installing 7.0.1 and 7.0.2  RH Help>About was still showing 7.00.145, so there seemed no reason to believe 7.0.3 would be any different.

However just to please you Leon, we have now installed 7.0.3.  The installation does not include only the Remove option (unlike the other 2) , and lo!  Help>About shows the new version 7.0.3.  So far so good, but...

RESULT: It makes not the slightest difference to the invisibility of the same old htm files in the RH-Editor.

Now I've run out of ideas 😞

[Peter Grainge]

OK, let's have a teach-in on patches.

You have to install 1, then 2, then 3. Patch 3 does not contain what is in Patch 1 or 2.

When you install a patch that is not already installed, it should just run through and install. If it finds the patch is already installed, it will offer the radio button option to remove it. Sounds like you were trying to install an installed patch. You probably thought it was not installed because Help > About can get it wrong.

The way to know what patch is really installed is to go to Add/Remove (XP). You will see the RoboHelp entry with the patch number. Help > About can get out out of phase with that and the only solution is to uninstall all patches and start over. So if Help says one thing and Add/Remove shows something else, uninstall as you will only be uninstalling the patch. Then press F5 and you will see what RH has regressed to. Keep going until it shows the original version. Don't uninstall the full program.

Now Help > About and Add/Remove should show the same and you install the patches one after the other and they should stay synced.

---

See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[MergeThis]

Have all the bosch_ies upgraded to 7.0.3?

OK, now to the source control issue: I believe that all your TESTs have been ineffectual because you're still working within a corrupted environment. I suggest starting from scratch.

Microsurgery:

Try finding the root.fpj file that contains all the topic links, and have everyone replace theirs with the good one (each, in turn, Check Out the file, copy over it with the good one, and Check In the file).

If that doesn't work...

Major surgery:

1. Obtain a complete working copy of the project (even if you have to create a new project and import all the files).
2. Add the project to a different source control database folder (except for the four aforementioned files).
3. Have the other bosch_ies copy the project folder to their machines and set their local paths in the source control app.

Another thing to keep in mind is whether some of the bosch_ies workflows might impact your environment. We've had to beat some of our writers about the head and shoulders, to prevent them from copying files across versions, or from backup folders, in Windows Explorer (that is, outside of RoboHelp). This seems to have been the cause of problems similar to yours. They have been sufficiently cowed into submission, and the problem has not resurfaced. Hopefully, they will continue performing their proper procedures.

Good luck,

Leon

[Bosch_pb]

Leon, you nearly got a very angry post in reply to your last.  Fortunately I let it cool off overnight, and yesterday was too busy to post at all.

OK, now to the source control issue: I believe that all your TESTs have been ineffectual because you're still working within a corrupted environment.

Then please explain to the viewers what you mean by a corrupted environment:  What does RH require as an "enviroment", and what can corrupt it? The TESTS have already shown that deleting

* projectname.cpd
* projectname.pss
* projectname.hhp
* projectname.trl
* ehlpdhtm.js

(as we learned from http://www.grainge.org/pages/snippets/snippets.htm)   has no effect.

I suggest starting from scratch.

How's this for starting from scratch:

TEST-9

1. bosch_nm creates an entirely new project from scratch on his local hard disk, not subject to source control.
2. he copies 2 htm files only from the problem project, (also resident and writable on his hard disk, i.e. no longer under source control, see TEST-3&4)
   1. an htm file which he normally can't see in the RH-editor (design view), but can see in preview and non-RH editors
   2. an htm file which he normally can see in the RH-editor and all others also
3. he imports both these and nothing else into the virgin project
4. RESULT: No change.  The contents of "Invisible".htm (2.1 above) are visible in preview, Notepad, Frontpage, Word, just NOT in the RH-Editor, whereas the contents of "Visible".htm (2.2 above) are visible in all.

Are you still sure you're barking up the right tree with this source-control business?

Another sub-test he tried was mixing an "invisible" and a "visible" htm file into a new htm file using notepad as an editor.  The result was the similar to the above, with the parts from "invisble".htm remaining invisible in the RH-Editor.  The parts from "visible".htm were visible as before.

Have all the bosch_ies upgraded to 7.0.3?

Yes, and fortunately nothing else has broken.  Remember, the user on 7.0.2 didn't have the problem, the user on 7.0.3 does.

Another thing to keep in mind is whether some of the bosch_ies workflows might impact your environment. We've had to beat some of our writers about the head and shoulders, to prevent them from copying files across versions, or from backup folders, in Windows Explorer (that is, outside of RoboHelp). This seems to have been the cause of problems similar to yours. They have been sufficiently cowed into submission, and the problem has not resurfaced. Hopefully, they will continue performing their proper procedures

All I can say is, just make sure you don't try this on customers as they tend to resent it, particularly as the vast majority of tools they've worked with over the last 25 years would have absolutely no problem with the kind of procedures you describe.

[Peter Grainge]

Bosch_pb

I have had to skip read this so apologies if I have missed something.

Bosch_nm creates a virgin project with two topics, one still has the problem, one does not.

What if s/he zips that up and you put it on your machine? Can you see both topics?

---

See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[Bosch_pb]

Hi Peter, welcome back!

What if s/he zips that up and you put it on your machine? Can you see both topics?

Yup.  We've just tried exactly this and I can indeed see both topics.

One more thing.  Bosch_nm can generate a chm file from this (and the other projects) and the hidden original content will be visible in the chm file.

For an "invisible" file/topic the design(editor) view shows blank and the html view shows the following generic header:

<!doctype HTML public "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Frameset//EN">

<html><head>

<meta http-equiv=content-type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">

<meta name=topic-status content="In Progress">

<meta name=topic-priority content=0>

<meta name=topic-time-estimate content=0>

<meta name=topic-comment content>

<meta name=topic-id content="Configuring Series 9000/7000 Panel OPC Server">

<meta name=template content=Text_Links_on_Layers_Header.htt>

<meta name=generator content="Adobe RoboHelp -

www.adobe.com">

<meta name=generator-major-version content=0.1>

<meta name=generator-minor-version content=1>

<meta name=filetype content=RoboHelp>

<meta name=filetype-version content=1>

<meta name=page-count content=1>

<meta name=layout-height content=532>

<meta name=layout-width content=591>

<title>Creating a New G-Series Control Panel OPC Server</title>

<link rel=StyleSheet href=Help_Styles_new.css>

</head>

<body>

<p> </p>

</body>

</html>

...But the preview and the non-RH editors nevertheless still show the original content.

If he now adds anything (e.g. 2 spaces) in the design view editor then it is added to the generic header above.

<body>

<p><spaces>  </spaces></p>

</body>

If he thereupon saves the file and generates a chm file then the original content will have been overwritten by the above emptiness (header + body with 2 spaces) and consequently will not be visible.

[MergeThis]

Hey, pal, it's your environment!

And after running TEST-1 through TEST-9 and admitting you've run out of ideas (Bosch_pb: Sep 9, 2009 9:11 AM), you're taking umbrage at my suggestions?

Here's what I mean by a "corrupted environment." You have projects in which some topics have lost their connection to the RoboHelp project and/or the MS TFS database (whatever the underlying reasons for it). All those TESTs have been conducted within that same environment, and it's unlikely that you'll find a solution as you continue to struggle within it. Ergo, my recommendation to start anew.

It appears that I've become a distraction to this thread, since my responses seem to generate disbelief, scorn, or anger. Therefore, I'm bowing out so that I can concentrate on my real job and on other forum users.

Good luck,
Leon

[Captiv8r]

Hi there

When you are viewing one of the problem topics that displays as blank, what do you see when you open the topic using Windows Notepad?

Cheers... Rick

Helpful and Handy Links RoboHelp Wish Form/Bug Reporting Form Begin learning RoboHelp HTML 7 or 8 within the day - $24.95! Adobe Certified RoboHelp HTML Training SorcerStone Blog RoboHelp eBooks

[Peter Grainge]

I'm struggling to understand why Leon's reply upset you so much. Seems to me he was offering suggestions which is all any of us can do.

As well as indicating what the topic shows in Notepad when NM opens it, as asked by Rick, what does it show when you open it in RH Design Editor and Notepad.

Where we are now is that

1. We have ruled out source control because we are talking about a project and topics that have not been near it, correct? You didn't import anything including the CSS I assume.
2. The Design Editor is showing correctly for NM in that there is no content, the mystery is how Preview Displays it.

Could be worth opening the supplied samples to see if any different. Sorry if we have already covered that one.

If you are using a custom layout, try the default.

---

See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips