32 Replies Latest reply on Mar 5, 2012 6:21 AM by Mean PC

    don't show Non match during filter

      Hi,
      I have PS elements 7. One thing that I am sure someone else has complained about is the way non matching images are shown when I filter using tags. This absolutely gives me the irrates! I just wanted to add my vote to stop this behaviour.

      Trevor.
        • 1. Re: don't show Non match during filter
          BobGager Adobe Employee
          Trevor:
          Can you be more specific in what your doing, what PSE7 does, and what you're expecting it to do?
          Bob
          • 2. Re: don't show Non match during filter
            johnrellis Most Valuable Participant
            Bob,

            Perhaps Trevor is referring to a feature of PSE 6 and 7 that annoys many of us.

            When a search matches a photo in a stack or version set, the entire stack or version set is included in the search results. If the search matches the top photo of the stack/set, it is shown collapsed. Otherwise, it is shown expanded, and photos in the stack/set not matching the search are shown with the red circle-slash.

            This behavior makes it impossible to search and select photos meeting a given criteria. For example, someone posted here the following use case: He edited his raw files and saved them in version sets as JPEGs. He wanted to move just the raw files offline. But theres no way to find and select just the raw files if you do Find > By Details > File Type Is Camera Raw, the JPEGs in the version sets will also be displayed (with a red circle-slash).

            As another example, someone wanted to find and select just those photos with 5 stars, including photos that were in stacks.

            In general, what many of us want is the ability to do a search and display exactly all those photos that match, regardless of whether they are in a version set or stack.

            Here are some past posts about this issue:

            http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?128@@.59b6aff4
            http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?128@@.59b5c2b7
            John Rolfe Ellis, "Exact match" #1, 30 Apr 2008 10:55 pm
            http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b50d3e
            http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b4b4e2
            http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?128@@.3c05cbe1
            http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?p=358500#post358500
            • 3. Re: don't show Non match during filter
              Level 1
              That is exactly my issue. Well put John. I just hope if enough people make enough noise the developers will realise that this is not a logical behaviour of the program. It goes against what people would expect to happen and limits the usability of PSE. I have since unstacked all my pics which is unfortunate.
              • 4. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                Aarrrgghhh!!!

                This is exactly what I've spent the last 24 hours trying to work out!
                I have about 50gb of raw files I need to archive to DVD, but no way of doing it unless I remove all the stacks and version sets I've built up over the last few years!

                Oh this is so frustrating! I expect more from a product supposedly aimed at photographers.

                I guess I have a choice; I either give up on archiving files or I abandon stacking and versioning. Either way a pretty poor situation. As I run out of disk space I guess it's the stacking and versioning that has to go... in which case I don't want to waste my time (any more of my time!) creating structure in the catalog.

                Anyone know of any decent inexpensive alternatives that aren't crippled in this way?
                • 5. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                  johnrellis Most Valuable Participant
                  >Anyone know of any decent inexpensive alternatives that aren't crippled in this way?

                  You might look at Lightroom and Microsoft's Expression Media, both of which cost about twice as much as PSE but seem to get better attention to detail and support.
                  • 6. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                    Level 1
                    Thanks John.
                    At present I'm strapped for cash (recently made redundant) so for now I'll have to soldier on with PSE.

                    There's something very odd happening with stacks... it takes ages to unstack just two photos - around 12 seconds on my Athlon 64 3700+ processor at 2.21 GHz with 2GB ram (not state of the art, but not feeble either), but as I increase the number of stacks I try to undo, I get an exponential rise in the time taken.

                    After some experimentation I have an approximate relationship - there seems to be a 6 second overhead per batch, then 5.75 seconds for every stack selected, but that total time is increased by about 1/4 of the number of stacks as a percentage - so for 4 stacks that's (6 + 4*5.75)*1.01 (the last term being an increment of 1%) giving 28 seconds, but for 400 stacks it's a lot more than 100 times as long - (6 + 400*5/75)*2 (the last term being 100% increment). It's quicker for me to sit at the computer and manually unstack in batches of up to 10 than it is to ask PSE to do the same number in one go by itself!

                    It seems to me (I am a software developer working with relational databases) that PSE is being crippled by some very inefficient queries that do not scale - even the 12s for one stack of two photos seems way over the top but for the software to perform worse than a person sitting at the PC and doing it by hand is beyond belief!

                    I have 7000 stacks to unstack... if I ask PSE to do them for me it looks like it will take around 9 days solid at 100% CPU! Or I could sit there and feed it 10 at a time every minute or so for 12 hours straight! :-{
                    • 7. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                      johnrellis Most Valuable Participant
                      Interesting I see something similar. In my largest catalog of 12K items, there are only 167 stacks, but it takes 6-7 seconds to unstack one stack of two photos. Im guessing that Adobe never thought that such a use case was important to test for speed (it would pretty rare for someone to unstack 7000 stacks!). The underlying database, SQLite, has a good reputation for basic performance, but as you know, its how the application uses it.

                      If you want to be adventurous, you could download SQLite Database Browser (free), make a backup copy of your database file (triple check that!), open it with the browser, and delete all the rows in the tables media_stack_sort_table and media_stack_to_media_table. Im pretty sure that would get rid of all the stacks without violating any application invariants in the database.
                      • 8. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                        Level 1
                        Thanks again.

                        I eventually finished the unstacking task. It got quicker as the number of stacks reduced - 400 batches took around an hour and a quarter when I had 7000 batches remaining, with 3000 left a batch of 400 took 26 minutes and the last 400 were through in under 90 seconds (meaning a succession of batches was dramatically quicker than doing it all in one hit!).

                        I didn't know it was based on SQLite (about which I knew nothing) but I took a look at the database as you suggested. There seem to be a lot of key columns that are, well, not the way I'd have designed them! The evidence of my unstack timings suggests also that each unstacking operation involves looking through the entirety of the stack tables (or something along those lines, I don't have access to the code of course) - possibly joining multiple full-table scans with the selection of the batch of stacks to unstack, which would explain the exponential slow-down for larger batches and for larger total number of stacks in the catalog.

                        Maybe I should offer to rewrite the data access layer for Adobe? ;-} I need a job right now.
                        • 9. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                          johnrellis Most Valuable Participant
                          Glad you got it finished. (I'd guess there's probably an index missing on one of the stack-related tables.)
                          • 10. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                            PVRalph

                            I am having the same basic problem with non matches showing up after I filter with a tag. In my case it makes no difference if there are stacks, version sets, or single images. In other words, I have non-matches showing up which are single non-edited photos, or stacks, or version sets, or a combination of all three. It doesn't happen all the time but enough times to be totally annoying.

                            • 11. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                              PVRalph Level 1

                              Did you ever get a satisfactory solution to the problem or are we stuck with non matches during tag filtration?

                              • 12. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                                johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                                There is no general solution to the problem.  PSE 8 doesn't fix it (it would have been very easy to have another Find-bar option, Hide Non-Match Results).

                                 

                                You may be using stacks in a way that Adobe didn't intend, which exacerbates this problem:

                                 

                                http://www.johnrellis.com/psedbtool/photoshopelements-6-7-faq.htm#_Keyword_tags_versus

                                • 13. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                                  PVRalph Level 1

                                  Thanks for the quick response. I had preveiously read the info in the link you sent me. It made some sense that if any photo inside a stack matches the search, all the photos in the stack are displayed in the search results, regardless of whether they match. But it can happen with or without stacks. I have tried deleting the tags and reentering them but that doesn't help either. Neither does repair or optimize the catalog.

                                  PVRalph

                                  • 14. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                                    johnrellis Most Valuable Participant
                                    In other words, I have non-matches showing up which are single non-edited photos, or stacks, or version sets, or a combination of all three.

                                    Oh, sorry, I missed this previous post.

                                     

                                    Interesting -- I haven't heard of that before.   Can you attach a screenshot of the Organizer showing this?

                                    • 15. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                                      PVRalph Level 1

                                      The first images show single pics; the last one is a version set.

                                      InsertFileError021.jpg

                                      • 16. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                                        johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                                        Hmm.  Can you post a shot of the entire Organizer window?  I've never seen a non-match result other than in version sets or stacks.

                                        • 17. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                                          PVRalph Level 1

                                          Organizer page showing some matches and some non-matches:

                                          Organizer Page.jpg

                                          • 18. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                                            johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                                            Something wierd with your catalog, I think.

                                             

                                            The non-matching photos in the screen shot are all tagged with an Events tag.  What is its name?

                                             

                                            Also, when you click the Options drop-down in the Find bar, what are the options presented?

                                            • 19. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                                              PVRalph Level 1

                                              The tag is Events/Sub Category "New Years Eve", Tag 2005-2006. But the tag is reading "New Years Eve" though it is a sub-category under events.

                                               

                                              In the Options drop-down, I can toggle between Show and Hide results that do not match. While the photos change a bit, I get the same result - some that match and some that don't.

                                              • 20. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                                                DB Sullivan Level 1

                                                I'm having the same problem/frustration with PSE 8 -- when I search for, say, all 4-star pictures, it shows me many that are "non-match" but in versions or sets or stacks with the ones I want.  This is a significant bug.  It was not a problem in PSE 3, the previous version that I used.

                                                • 21. Re: don't show Non match during filter
                                                  PVRalph Level 1

                                                  The answer (provided by John Ellis):  Some people try to use

                                                  stacks instead of keyword tags to group disparate photos of the

                                                  same subject (e.g. ten different photos of a wedding), and the

                                                  stacks end up having many "best" photos buried inside the s