Numbered List and Bullet Problems in RH8

[TabbyW]

*** My apologies to anyone who saw this question on a different thread. I mistakenly posted this on a thread with an answered question and decided that noone would probably see it. ***

Hi!

I'm having similar list problems that folks have discussed in other threads, but I think I'm having slightly different results. I've reviewed Peter Grainge's Web site for help and I just can't figure out why my numbers (or bullets) themselves have reverted to the (none) or Default paragraph formatting, leaving the list text in their correct font (so basically, my numbers look wacky and my bullet styles are being ignored).

I just migrated from RH7 (which I kinda loved already) to RH8. I initially used the Numbering button to create my numbered lists, but I created a special bullet style, because I'm using a special bullet graphic. All I need is a simple numbered list...I'm not doing anything fancy with embedded numbering, at least not in many of my topics.

So, here's what I'm encountering:

1. Bullets look fine in Design mode and in Preview mode...but when I generate WebHelp, my bullets turn to the standard black dot bullet?!?! What is this? It's totally defined properly if I do a Format -->List-->Bullets and Numbering. I can see that it's calling the correct graphic.
   
2. Sometimes, my custom bullets are NOT displaying correctly in Design mode, but they DO look fine in Preview mode. This is really crazy! However, it is still displaying incorrectly in the generated WebHelp.
   
3. How do I update a bullet graphic when I edit its style now? When I open the Styles dialog and click the Format button at the bottom, what happened to the option for "Bullets and Numbering"? This is how I initially created the style in RH7 and this option is now missing in RH8...don't understand why.
   
4. I decided to abandon using the Numbering button and create my own numbering style in RH8. Now, everything looks great, but if I need to add a second numbered list in the same topic, it does not reset back to 1, even when I try resetting the number back to 1; RH8 is ignoring my request. In fact, it removes the numbering of the first step, and continues the numbering from the previous numbered list for the 2nd list entry. This always worked perfectly fine in RH7.
   
5. I gave up using my numbering style and attempted to use the Multi-level list button, which is not what I really need. I just need a simple list. But anyways, I used the "multiNumber" template and was able to generate a nice simple numbered list...but I need the list to be indented! Once I clicked the right indent, I got "1.1," which is so NOT what I need. There doesn't seem to be any way to indent the first level numbering...or at least I cannot figure it out.

I'm just at a lost. Can someone help...please!! I'm at my wits end and having trouble getting my latest doc out the door.

I'm using RoboHelp HTML.

Thank you!!! You guys are always so helpful.

Tabby W.

[Peter Grainge]

You are trying to solve many problems in your existing project. You will do much better to create a new project with just one or two topics and then tackle each issue one by one.

That isolates problems and you know you are not getting results tainted by something else.

Try that and if you need further help, then come back to this thread one problem at a time. It will then be easier to help you.

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[TabbyW]

Hi!

OK...makes sense. How about we start with creating customized bullets? I just created a brand new test project with some test topics. I imported my old .HTT and .CSS files, so I can continue to work with my same look and feel. So far, so good.

However, my customized bullets (I have 4 different bullet styles created to address various indenting and line spacing differences) look odd (not using the correct image). And...when I copied over the CSS and HTT, the correct bullet image copied over, so I know it somehow copied in my project (I checked). So, in the Styles and Formatting pod(?), I attempt to edit my bullet styles...so I click the Format button in the Styles dialog. What happened to the "Bullets and Numbering" option in RH8? This option has been removed and I have no way to really customize the bullet. I can do Format-->List-->Bullets and Numbering, but I don't want to do this everytime I need to apply my bullet style (seems counterproductive).

Also, when I attempt to create a second list in the same topic, I select my Bullet format...and I get numbers instead of bullets!! This is completely new, as I've never seen this problem in RH7 ever. How can I correct this behavior?

Maybe this solution could help me resolve my numbering issues as well. I hope this explanation of what I did makes sense...I'm just so frustrated and disappointed w/ RH8 right now....I'm really thinking of reverting back to RH7.

Thank you!

[TabbyW]

I should also add that one of my co-workers is using my same CSS and HTT files in her latest RH project with no problems whatsoever...and she has no idea what she did differently. However, she did start w/ a fresh project. Eventually, I will have to apply the changes to my old project that consists of about 50-60 different topics.

Clearing out the bullet/numbering formatting and then reapplying is proving to not work for me...usually, you can fit it by doing that. Oh well...

Thanks again!

[Peter Grainge]

You should not be importing anything from your old project as you are tainting the new one with stuff from the old project. The idea is that everything is new and clean.

This thread is about Printed Documentation but I wonder if anything there is useful as the issues are about bullets and numbering.

Take a look and if not of any help, post back. I'll have more time later.

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[TabbyW]

Hi Peter,

| You should not be importing anything from your old project as you are tainting the new
| one with stuff from the old project. The idea is that everything is
| new and clean.

What are your suggestions for recreating my help system from scratch? It's fairly large and would take a long time to retype/tag/etc. Wouldn't copy/paste still introduce possible corruption as well? I do have a backup RH7 version of it, before these new problems got introduced.

| This thread is about Printed Documentation but I wonder if anything there is useful as
| the issues are about bullets and numbering.

I'll try anything. Which Printed Documentation thread would you like me to read?

[Peter Grainge]

I am not steering you to recreating your project, just getting styles that work in a new project and can then be tested in your live project. The idea is to make it work in a simple project, then test in live. If that makes a difference, we then investigate why knowing that the new project is kosher.

Sorry about the missing link. http://forums.adobe.com/thread/509759?tstart=0

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[TabbyW]

Wow, that poor person seems just as frustrated as me!!

I'm not sure if we're having the same issues, as I can force customized bullets look fine if I use RH's Bullet button and then later format the paragraph individually via Format --> Lists --> Bullets and Numbering. But, that's not really how I wanted to do it...I'd prefer to have a working bullet paragraph style (or two) that I can use to automate my workflow and keep things simple...but it's far from simple anymore since migrating to RH8.

[Peter Grainge]

I wasn't suggesting it was the same problem, just hoping that maybe something in the thread would strike a chord.

OK. Create a new project and do your best to set up what you want. Describe what you have done in a topic and use images to show what you want. Then zip it up and send it to me as described on my contact page. Please include a link to this thread.

Using images with bullets is not something I normally do, I am happy to take a look.

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[Nick27]

TabbyW, be careful with creating a paragraph style to handle bullets. I did the same, and wanted to use a custom image bullet. It didnt and wouldnt work, so I had to create a list style to use a bullet where you have the option to set a custom image. just a tip.

apparently it worked in RH7, but in RH8 the feature is not there.

[Willam_van_Weelden]

Technically,

HTML (robo7) allows you to overwrite the list-style from a paragraph. XHTML (robo8) doesn't.

Greet,

Willam

[TabbyW]

Hi Nick@Tag,

I read some of your comments from a related thread as well, and I totally sympathize with you. I now realize that I will have to revert back to RH7 to get the desired functionality that I need. Frankly, I think this is a bug that needs addressing...for both numbering and bulleted lists. The numbers in my numbered lists are a different font from the text? What's going on?? Why would you remove/destroy perfectly fine-working functionality from an upgrade?!

I spent way too long perfecting this stylesheet in RH7 and it just looks awful now...and I'm about done. Very disappointed w/ RH8.

Sorry...I had to vent.   I feel better now. Thanks so much for your reply! 🙂

[TabbyW]

Thank you, Willam!

OK...I guess I'll have to reinvent somehow.

[Willam_van_Weelden]

Hi,

How may styles of bullets are you using? If you always use the same bullet for a list, you can set the bullets globally in your style sheet.

Otherwise, its probably quickest to create a couple of list styles using the Robo css editor. You then apply those styles to a list by right click | Bullets and numbering | Custom

Greet,

Willam

[TabbyW]

Hi Willam,

Thanks so much for your replies...

I have no problems customizing the bullets that way...it just seems counterproductive when I could have the style do it for me. That was RH7's beauty. There's really no need to even have a bullet style at all. I could just use the Bullet button to place the bullet there and later customize it, right?

How about my numbered list issues? Any tips on why my numbers would have a different font from the text? My normal font is 10-pt Verdana; however, the font that RH8 chooses for the numbers is 12-pt Arial, which is odd because I have no styles in my stylesheet using Arial.

[Nick27]

have you had a look in HTML view to see that the correct style is being used .....I noticed when assigning styles, sometimes it will just choose something completely different, and I wont notice it until I publish and the text is all wrong.....sometimes editing the html is just easier.

I've noticed that RH will use other styles that arent in my CSS.

I know with my numberlist style, its basically using 2 styles. a list style, and then a paragraph style

One style for the numbering only (li), and another bodytext style (p)  that formats the text after the numbers themselves.

[TabbyW]

OK...THIS could be where I'm going wrong with the numbered styles...I didn't set up Iist styles. I'll have to look into this...don't remember this from RH7.

[Peter Grainge]

TABBY

I don't see this as a bug. In HTML lists are either OL or UL, ordered (numbered) or unordered (bullets). I can understand your frustration but the problem is really that RH7 let you get away with creating lists that were not truly lists. I think from the other posts that you can identify with that.

I have not yet looked at your project. It sounds as though now you understand the underlying issue, you are OK with trying to set up a list yourself. Is that the case?

****************************************

NICK

I just unzipped your project and as what I found will affect Tabby too, I am posting here. Your problem is basically that your list style is OK in webhelp but not in printed output, correct? As far as I can see the problem is caused by the size of your image. When I replaced your image with a 16X16 pixel image, the appearance was correct. You can see that by creating a printed document from the project you sent me and right clicking your bullet. Select Format Picture and reduce the size. There is another issue you may not have picked up on yet. If you press Enter at the end of one of the list items in Word, it does not create another list item whereas the paragraphs that are formatted as ordinary bullets or numbers will create a new list item. Depending on what happens to your documents after generation, that may or may not be important.

I suspect your best way forward will be a table with the image in the left cell and the text in the right cell. This will overcome the way Word handles the content.

I will paste this part of the reply into Nick's thread to bring it up to date. Any questions related to the print side of the problem, please see the thread at

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/509759?tstart=0

****************************************

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[TabbyW]

Looking at List Styles now...but I'm not having much success. Seems like RH8 has automatically generated List Styles for me, no? They correspond to the Paragraph Style names. The List Styles for my bullets (P-Bullet, P-Bullet6pt) seem like they are formatted correctly...I even see how you place in the custom image now...in the List Style...

...But, RH8 still refuses to format the paragraph the way it's supposed to look...total disregard for my formatting (I either get large numbers or the generic black disc). Updating the graphic to 16x16 didn't help either. So, at this point, I am still open to more suggestions.

I'm no HTML whiz, but I know a little something...and if Nick had suggest editing the HTML, then maybe I could try that also. Can you direct me to the place in the code that controls the numbering's font? Just the number...the text in the rest of the paragraph is formatted correctly.

Thanks!!

[Peter Grainge]

The LI tag controls what is in the list item (the text). The OL tag control the numbering font. If you open the CSS in Notepad, you should be able to copy the lines that relate to the font from one to the other.

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[Peter Grainge]

This is a variation of Nick's style. It assumes your image is in the same folder as your CSS. You will need to change its name. You can change TabbysList to whatever you like.

li.TabbysList {
    font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 10pt;
    margin-bottom: 10pt;
    margin-top: 10pt;
    margin-left: 6pt;
    list-style: url(ImageName.jpg);
}

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[Peter Grainge]

Tabby

I've unzipped your project and I'll need to look at RH7 to look up some bullet stuff there. That will be tomorrow.

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[TabbyW]

No problem! Thanks for all of your help, Peter!!

Yeah...the code looks simple enough...I'm thinking you'll see that mine looks pretty much the same.

[TabbyW]

Hi Peter,

I think I neglected to answer your question a few posts ago about whether I'm seeing the problem in Printed Docs. I'm seeing the problem in Design mode, in the Preview mode AND in WebHelp. I'm too afraid to generate Word or JavaHelp output yet if I can't get my <OL>s and <UL>s just to look correctly in RH.

Thanks!

[Peter Grainge]

JavaHelp wasn't on the menu before! You'll be lucky if you get ordinary bullets working how you want. As posted on HATT the other day, most times JavaHelp is requested, it is not needed and webhelp would do just fine. See my JavaHelp article.

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