DWG/DXF Import and Export

[Streamline_Designs]

Hi all,

I have a question regarding import and export of DWG and DXF CAD drawing formats.  I have read as much as I can find prior to posting here.  I am using FM version 9.0p250.

I am trying to open or import  DWG/DXF files from a CAD program into a FM document.  I also need the ability to export back to DWG/DXF after adding text and other misc. to the document.  I have had some success importing  DXF files, but most of the time it actually crashes FM.  I am unable to open a DXF or DWG file using File > Open.  When I try to export a DWG/DXF using File > Save As, the desired output format is not listed.

I have read the Using Filters document (FM7) and I understand that there are a couple of  import/export filters that can be used (IsoDraw API Client and IMAGMARK filter).  The choice between these is configurable through the maker.ini file.  The settings for a particular filter are configurable through the various .ini files in the /filters directory of the FM installation.

I have using both IsoDraw and IMAGMARK approaches, but I am still having issues.  In no case have I had the option of exporting DXF/DWG, even though there are supposed to be export filters.  In no case have I been able to open a DXF/DWG file directly.  In a few cases, I have been able to import a DXF file, but generally it causes FM to crash.

If anyone has any suggestions regarding these issues, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks

Adam

[Be.eM]

Adam,

FrameMaker is the last tool I'd choose for handling DXF/DWG. The (basic) ability to import such files (as other graphic file formats too) doesn't mean anything but: you can import, but not edit or export them. You're loading an image file, and that's it.

For the tasks you have to do, you should get and use Illustrator (or a 2D CAD tool), which is able to open, edit and export DWG and DXF. But don't expect wonders, misunderstandings (to a certain degree) between Illustrator and CAD apps is… well, expected behaviour 😉

Even plain 2D CAD apps have their difficulties exchanging data via DXF/DWG, and this has - last, but not least - to do with the continuing efforts of Autodesk in making the file format as incompatible as possible.

So, don't even try to use FM for such a thing, it's the wrong tool.

Bernd

[Streamline_Designs]

Thanks for your input.  I don't think that I must have described the question/request quite well enough.

I am not trying to edit DXF/DWG inside of FM.  I also agree that this isn't a good option.  I am actually an engineer and I use CAD tools (2D and 3D) extensively, so I am well versed in these areas.  I'm not misunderstanding the difference between CAD programs and Illustrator (or similar) applications.

My question was focused on understanding the capabilities of FM as it relates to handling of DXF/DWG import and export.  In this case, I am developing a somewhat complex assembly manual (dozens of pages) for an aerospace product.  Each page contains a lot of CAD illustrations as well as extensive documentation and annotations.  Note that I am developing all of the core illustrations in my CAD software and would only be bringing them into FM once they're finished.  There are also page layout considerations since this will ultimately be published.  My customer, however, wishes to have the output available in both PDF and DWG/DXF.  It seems that FM has enough power in handling page layout, documentation, and graphics to be worth consideration.  The sticking point lies with my customer need for DWG/DXF output in addition to PDF.

If it were an internal project, I would be perfectly happy with PDF alone.  I have explained these issues to the customer, but he wants what he wants.  So, I have this expensive and very powerful tool in my toolbox (FM) and I want to see how much it can be leveraged together with my CAD system.  In order to do this, I need to understand the limitations and strengths of each.  I also want to maintain a vector-based workflow from start to finish.

Thanks again,

Adam

[Be.eM]

Adam,

OK, now I understand. But my previous answer is still valid: FM simply can't do this. There is no DXF/DWG export feature, just import. And even the import feature is quite lossy and not what I'd call reliable or controllable.

I've done a quick test with a single page PDF from FrameMaker, converted using two different ways:

- Converting the PDF directly to DWG in a CAD application (here: ProgeCAD, an "AutoCad clone")

- Opening the PDF in Illustrator and exporting to DWG/DXF

I hope the results I'm going to attach show up without being quarantined...

The first image shows the ProgeCAD conversion, which looks quite usable. Text remains text, but is broken into pieces, no longer complete words or paragraphs. The second image shows the DWG exported from Illustrator. Graphical elements are OK, but text spacing has been lost and needs to be redone in your CAD application.

So considering the export formats FrameMaker offers, I don't see any way but converting PDFs page by page (do multipage DXF files exist?).

Bernd

[Arnis_Gubins]

Adam,

If you are creating a PDF deliverable, you can include DXF/DWG content in a PDF portfolio as a part of the deliverable.

I simply don't understand the requirement for being able to export DXF/DWG from a FM document in the first place.

[Be.eM]

Arnis Gubins wrote:

I simply don't understand the requirement for being able to export DXF/DWG from a FM document in the first place.

Well, obviously the client doesn't trust in PDF as an archiving format, and wants DXF/DWG instead. May be a bad or unnecessary decision (and probably is), but he's the client...

Bernd

[Arnis_Gubins]

Be.eM wrote:

Well, obviously the client doesn't trust in PDF as an archiving format, and wants DXF/DWG instead.

Even for an ISO standard???? As I said, both formats can be accomodated in one deliverable.

[Streamline_Designs]

I think that the client trusts PDF as an archive format.  He just wants a means of tweaking the manual content on his end after I have finished generating it initially.  He is accustomed to a CAD-based (old software) workflow, and he is not too interested in learning "new tricks".

[Streamline_Designs]

Yes, I am considering this approach.  It might provide a "happy medium" where I can still work efficiently while providing the necessary source data to the client.  I don't really think they would easily understand what they are getting from a source data standpoint, but I could probably manage to explain it to them with enough time and additional documentation.

The ability to export a clean DWG/DXF (including text) from FM for this illustration intense manual (many line drawings) would just be a time-saver (and cut out several extra steps) for interfacing with my customer.  Even though there is a DXF exporter listed in the maker.ini and referenced in the filters manual, I don't see where it would be possible to do this (e.g. File > Save As) anyhow.

I really appreciate the input.

Adam

[Arnis_Gubins]

Adam,

The export filters that you've seen are used in Structured FM when the graphics have been imported by copy (which isn't really a recommended practice in the first place). You set up the read/write rules to specify what format to export the graphics as.

However, if you use a standard workflow where the graphics are imported by reference, there is nothing to export as the graphics are always available externally.

If you're expecting the entire FM "page" to be exported in DWG/DXF format, then this is simply not possible from FM. There are third-party PDF to CAD export utilities available, which may be worth considering if you need the entire page exported.

If your client just wants access to the DWG or DXF files when working through the documentation, then using a tool like Microtype's TimeSavers to create an interactive PDF Portfolio with links to the original CAD files from the FM files would be the route to go. You can also include fully interactive 3D CAD drawings into the PDFs via FM, giving your client the ability to interactively explore parts assemblies in the documentation.

For background on PDF Portfolios, see:

http://www.layersmagazine.com/build-a-better-portfolio.html

http://acrobatusers.com/tutorials/combining-files-pdf-portfolios

http://acrobatusers.com/tutorials/acrobat-9-pdf-portfolios

there are quite alot of tutorials and videos on the Acrobat Users site on Portfolios weel worth exploring.

For TimeSavers general see: http://www.microtype.com/timesavers.html

For 3D samples see: http://www.microtype.com/showcase3DAsst.html

[ru73]

>Streamline Designs wrote:

...I am actually an engineer and I use CAD tools (2D and 3D) extensively, so I am well versed in these areas.  I'm not misunderstanding the difference between CAD programs and Illustrator (or similar) applications.

My question was focused on understanding the capabilities of FM as it relates to handling of DXF/DWG import and export.  In this case, I am developing a somewhat complex assembly manual (dozens of pages) for an aerospace product.  Each page contains a lot of CAD illustrations as well as extensive documentation and annotations.  Note that I am developing all of the core illustrations in my CAD software and would only be bringing them into FM once they're finished.  There are also page layout considerations since this will ultimately be published.  My customer, however, wishes to have the output available in both PDF and DWG/DXF.  It seems that FM has enough power in handling page layout, documentation, and graphics to be worth consideration.  The sticking point lies with my customer need for DWG/DXF output in addition to PDF<

Why not develop the whole thing in CAD? It sounds like you have more experience in CAD than FM or Illustrator. If that's the case, develop the entire project in a DWG based CAD program. What CAD program(s) are you currently using? If you plan ahead, the project might be easier to accomplish in CAD only, unless you are worried about the printing aspects of the finished product. If that's the case, I would export the final document to PDF for printing only. Depending on the CAD program you use, you should be able to get the necessary output you want.

Ralph

http://www.dyeline.com

[Streamline_Designs]

Thanks.  This is actually what I have been doing to date.  I have extensive CAD experience and I have been using FM heavily for about 2 years (still learning every day and eager to learn more).  I have used Illustrator (or similar) programs for many years as well.  This CAD-only workflow does work, but it starts to get pretty "clunky" and tedious when the page count gets large, lots of text is needed, and there needs to be a high level of formatting consistency from page-to-page.  CAD software does have some templating capabilities for pages, but nothing like FM.  The end-users of this manual will be using printed and bound versions of the manual almost exclusively.

These reasons are why I began exploring the possibilities for this project in FM in the first place.  This project is technical communication (a complex aerospace assembly manual) with a customer-induced twist!  I want to make sure that I give FM a fair shot.

Adam

[Arnis_Gubins]

Adam,

There is a thread in the FAQ section on CAD and FM. It's a bit dated, but most of the info still applies (needs to have 3d info added).

See: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/316489

That should give you some info relevant to importing into FM. For optimum quality, create a PDF from the CAD drawings and import those into FM.

However, regarding exporting from FM, don't go there. FM is a publishing tool, not a graphics editing tool as Bernd indicates. If you need to make edits to your graphics, then I would recommend doing it in the CAD program in the first place, since you say you want to round-trip.

If you just want to make annotated drawings, then importing into Illustrator is your best bet. Note: if you are going to be translating your documentation, recommended practice is to just use numeric callouts on the drawings and list the numerics with the actual info (usually in a tabular structure) in the document.

[Streamline_Designs]

Thank you.

This is helpful.  I had found this prior to writing my initial post.  As I mentioned in my other response, I wasn't considering FM as an editor for the CAD images themselves, but really a means by which to tie together dozens of pages of CAD illustrations and text and annotations into an assembly manual.  There are page layout considerations as well.  In the end, I want to maintain a vector-based workflow from start to finish.  My customer would *really* like to have DXF/DWG ouput of the pages in the manual as well.

I really appreciate the information and any other recommendations that you might have as it relates to this project.

Cordially,

Adam