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1. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
SausalitoDog Dec 20, 2009 1:50 AM (in response to TF22Raptor2)Raptor-
Many hear will hate me for saying it, but I recently switched from PC as well... and I LOVE the glossy monitors.
You aren't clear as to what model you are looking at... the 17" MBP with the glossy screen is to die for (as are both of the new iMacs). I think you can order the MBP with a matte screen now for $50 extra... save your money. There are very few conditions in which the reflection is a bother.
If you can get to an Apple store you can see for yourself.
cheers,
tom
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2. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Reynolds (Mark) Dec 20, 2009 5:50 AM (in response to TF22Raptor2)I agree with you that the glossy monitors are a rare design mistake on the art of Apple. In practice whenever I have had to use them on freelance jobs, you can usually position them and lighting so it doesn't cause an issue. Certainly don't let this minor issue put you off making your decision.
You haven't been clear about which models you are considering - laptop, imac or tower. If you are buying a seperate monitor, then you dont have to buy Apple monitors. Myself, and I have done color correction professionally, using many different monitors including Eizo's and even Dell's (some of the older models were excellent for some reason). For me with quite a lot of experience in this field, at the moment I consider Apple monitors to be a little overrated in terms of color performance. Price is too high also. There are many other brands out there. If you want something that looks 'cool' on your desk then - get a life ;-)
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3. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
John Joslin Dec 20, 2009 9:36 AM (in response to Reynolds (Mark))My Eizo looks cool enough for me!
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4. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
mhollis55 Dec 21, 2009 1:55 PM (in response to John Joslin)I'm using Apple's smaller cinema display which has the same reflective surface as the new iMacs. I have not had a problem with it, despite my misgivings. The monitor is so bright and so easy to work on that it's really a non-issue, despite the fact that I can see reflections behind me. Were the monitor not as bright, I could see where people might find it a problem.
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5. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
370H55V Dec 21, 2009 3:09 PM (in response to mhollis55)The MacBookPro 15" or 17" comes with either the glossy screen or an anti-glare screen.
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6. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Marian Driscoll Dec 22, 2009 7:55 AM (in response to TF22Raptor2)TF22Raptor2 wrote:
...I am really ready to swap over to the MAC platform and use MAC monitors etc after being super happy with the design and performance on my iphone for 1 year.
That is hilarious. You may want to find a better reason to switch platforms than a hand-held gadget that has not much to do with Mac OS or its interface design.
It is not unusual for a power (or thrifty) user to buy RAM, monitor, and mouse from a third party after buying a Mac. Apple has historically either over-charged or under-performed with these three things.
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7. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
mhollis55 Dec 22, 2009 8:02 AM (in response to Marian Driscoll)You may want to find a better reason to switch platforms than a hand-held gadget that has not much to do with Mac OS or its interface design.
Au contraire, Marian!
This is precisely what is driving sales of Apple computers to Windows users. Apple realizes that their iPod and iPhone "appliances" create a user experience that is very easy to follow with Apple's OS X. Especially for someone who was frustrated with Windows XP, incensed at Vista and having trouble with Windows 7.
And Microsoft isn't exactly gaining adherents with Windows CE or Windows Mobile or whatever other name for their portable operating system they're besmirching today.
Insidious, isn't it?
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8. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Marian Driscoll Dec 22, 2009 8:27 AM (in response to mhollis55)This is the first person I have actually heard make the preposterous connection with an intent to buy Mac OS. As one that is familiar with iPhone and Mac OS, I see no way that the two are related. Apple's/Microsoft's/Palm's/Google's smartphones tie to technology that may exist on the desktop, but they do not replicate the desktop and cannot be assumed to be a representation of how well a desktop computer will behave. Apple's iPhone support for MS Exchange makes it just as much of a companion-selling tool for Microsoft Windows.
With no offense to Raptor, I hope there is a more educated buying experience in the near future. Limiting yourself to an iPhone experience and the idea that one can only buy Mac displays shows that there is much to learn. Spend several hours with a Mac before buying. An iPhone is simply not a Mac - - and Apple is not perfect in the realm of design. Does anyone want my old hockey puck mouse?
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9. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
SausalitoDog Dec 22, 2009 10:14 AM (in response to Marian Driscoll)Hang in there, Raptor.
I've been on macs for one year... and ONLY considered the switch because of the iphone... and mobile me.
prior to using the intel chip, macs were very cute little machines with no power.
Photoshop on macs is absolutely NOT better than on windows (until they use 64 bit, it isn't as good) but the overall integration of the OS X platform with the iphone is totally great... and totally a great reason to move platforms.
Having everything work together is a thing of beauty!!!
cheers,
tom
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10. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Marian Driscoll Dec 22, 2009 10:37 AM (in response to SausalitoDog)What integration?! iPhone works with both Mac and Windows. MobileMe works with both Mac and Windows.
I do appreciate knowing there is more than one person who bought into the iPhone or iPod to Mac marketing path, even if there is no real logic behind the move. We're all entitled to using what appeals to our own taste.
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11. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Gyno-jiz Dec 22, 2009 11:16 AM (in response to Marian Driscoll)I think they mean Crackberry is to Windoze as iPhone is to Mac. You get it. Stop being so smart.
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12. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Marian Driscoll Dec 22, 2009 11:42 AM (in response to Gyno-jiz)Blackberry does not lead anyone to use Windows. Like iPhone, Blackberry is able to work with both Mac and Windows.
You have my deepest apologies for 'being so smart'. It is sadly not a major feat in this forum.
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13. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
SausalitoDog Dec 22, 2009 11:52 AM (in response to Marian Driscoll)Marian-
You are much too sheltered here in the mac forum (g).
I can tell you that my wife is trying to use mobile me with a windows/outlook setup and it's a mess. I have never used any system as painless and elegant as iphone/macbookpro/imac with mobile me (including windows outlook exchange).
It may surprise many, but windows just doesn't integrate as well as mac... it's not as bad as most people in mac forums contend, but it does not integrate as seamlessly and that is the elegance of mac for me... as far as I'm concerned, mac would just be another OS without mobileme (and I suffered through the first terrible weeks with it).
Still... it is really nice to see some argument in the forums that aren't total fanboy (fangirl) progaganda (vbg)
Happy Holidays to you
tom
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14. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Reynolds (Mark) Dec 22, 2009 12:20 PM (in response to SausalitoDog)We're all entitled to using what appeals to our own taste.
Agreed. As Mr Jobs once said very accurately when referring to Mr Gates company - "… they have no taste". Its a fairly fundamental thing, something you either get or you don't. The glossy screens are maybe a small slip, but in every other concievable area, might be a good idea not to 'throw out the baby with the bath water'
EVERYONE HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS,!!
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15. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
SausalitoDog Dec 22, 2009 12:26 PM (in response to Reynolds (Mark))Ahhh, Mark... there go the fanboys again.
The ease of use thing is overrated for people who really know windoze... the shortcut features of both OS's are lacking (I use iKey for mac and used Macro Express for windows, both doing exactly the same things) ...the stability claim sounds like hype to anyone who just switched to mac due to the enormous number of OS X 10.6 problems that have surfaced (I agree and pray that this is probably an anomaly but it has been a rude introduction to mac for me and many others).
On design you are 100% correct... for many years I envied the better looking apple products (and actually bought a few... newton, apple quicktake, apple cube ((what a beauty but it wouldn't work)... now I have the best of all worlds... mac design, windows if I need it (I do for quicken, for now at least) and the coolest fasted imac ever... but there are still a few.. a few... things better about windows that apple will never admit (that's ok) and there are many many that I like better.
Now, I've got all THAT off my chest....
Have a great Christmas!!!!
tom
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16. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Reynolds (Mark) Dec 22, 2009 12:38 PM (in response to SausalitoDog)the shortcut features of both OS's are lacking
Not so sure you have done your homework there Tom old boy.
And good design is not about looks. These are a bi-product of good design, not an end in themselves.
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17. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
TF22Raptor2 Dec 22, 2009 4:37 PM (in response to Reynolds (Mark))Marian you've gotten a bit carried away like a monkey that's about ready to be shot into space with me mentioning the Iphone. Settle down mate, settle down....
I have used Macs before and simply find it a more pleasant experience, and with the mac having products like VMware Fusion 3 and me being a website designer and being able to test on both platforms from the same machine in an instant is a pretty decent carrot.
That combined with the experience of the Iphone purchase, the MAC customer support/genius bars which was all new to a PC guy like me.
But if you must know the thing that really thew me over the edge was this:
Microsoft Store - Breaks Out into Song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSAXEVXvNz8OMFG... I do not want to be part of anything that is remotley tied to this performance. I have finally realised that no Billy Gates isn't Jesus Christ, more like a copy cat in disguise and a shockingly bad one at that.
Have a good Christmas everyone, still tossing up about the glossy screens, I can get by having the gloss screen on a laptop as that isn't what I spend most of my hours on, its the work station 24inch monitors that has me questioning the decision. I think I might hold out to see what the the next line of MACs can produce.
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18. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
370H55V Dec 22, 2009 5:32 PM (in response to TF22Raptor2)I LOVE that singing video. So totally staged, it reminded me of my AOL days.....
If you watch carefully, in the middle of all of it, a lady grabs a book or magazine off a rack, and stuffs it into her purse as she joins in the dancing. Then she just walks out the door with it before it's all over.
But hey! It's not like Bill Gates will need a cardboard sign and some prime median real estate for it.
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19. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Wade_Zimmerman Dec 22, 2009 7:56 PM (in response to TF22Raptor2)I think I might hold out to see what the the next line of MACs can produce.
I think it is coming soon in like january of february. I would wait the one or two or three months and get yourself the glossy monitor I figure if you like it then you will be pleasantly surprised if you hate it it will give you a highly visible target to release any tension that might biuld up in the course of everyday work and you can curse the screen instead of your clients.
So that will probably make you more money and insure that you have a Prosperous New Year!
Happy Holidays!
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20. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Marian Driscoll Dec 23, 2009 6:31 AM (in response to TF22Raptor2)TF22Raptor2 wrote:
Marian you've gotten a bit carried away like a monkey that's about ready to be shot into space with me mentioning the Iphone...
I'm not carried away. I'm just amused that you like the iPhone with a glassy surface but don't like that same glassy surface on your monitor. We are all entitled to our reasons for buying a Mac. I just suspected you could have come up with a better one.
I'm sure you have researched the issue to see that the market is heading to glossy displays. You probably also realize that the move to glossy is to present sharper images with more contrast. You probably also realize that Apples sells its computers ala carte and no one is obligated to buy a Mac monitor with a Mac computer. So if a glossy screen is the only thing holding you back, why are you limiting yourself to what Mac offers in displays?
TF22Raptor2 wrote:
...me being a website designer and being able to test on both platforms from the same machine in an instant is a pretty decent carrot.The Mac platform has some great web development tools but browser testing is still simpler on Windows, thanks to Apple releasing a Windows version of Safari. If you only own a Mac, you need to install Windows to run IE7 and IE8. It was a bit easier for Mac designers before IE7 and IE8 - - with Wine or Crossover Office on a newer Intel Mac, you could run IE6 without the need to install Windows.
Also be sure to search this forum for 'web color management' as many new and old Mac users stumble on this. It is a popular topic here.
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21. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
mhollis55 Dec 23, 2009 10:59 AM (in response to Marian Driscoll)One could very well suggest that websites and the Internet ought not try to support anyone's browsers and tools when they eschew standards that are set by the W3C. This is not to paint Microsoft as being, somehow, evil, but they have consistently taken advantage of a large user installed base (that, according to the EU at least, was forced down users' throats) that may not be sophisticated enough to buy a compliant browser.
Microsoft made a conscious decision with IE8 (as I understand it) to be more compliant (but still not 100%) this go-around.
It's pretty obvious, Marian, that you're a Windows-adherent in a Macintosh forum. Perhaps that is not the best idea.
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22. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Marian Driscoll Dec 23, 2009 11:19 AM (in response to mhollis55)mhollis55 wrote:
It's pretty obvious, Marian, that you're a Windows-adherent in a Macintosh forum. Perhaps that is not the best idea.
It is pretty obvious that you are confusing a "realist" with "Windows-adherent". I hate MSIE but I'm no fool to think it can be ignored. Putting a Windows OS on a Mac after claiming that you want to switch from Windows is pure insanity. How is that switching? "Man up" and go for Mac all the way.
I use Mac. I use Windows. But between the two of these, I prefer to use my head. I hope the rest of us can too. Use what you like but don't dive in without knowing what you are getting in to. If someone is thinking that they are limited to glossy screens, they apparently have not researched this enough.
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23. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Mike Ornellas Dec 23, 2009 11:48 AM (in response to Marian Driscoll)I want an easy bake oven for Christmas so I can watch the cockroaches pop to a plump and firm crispy crust. That way I will be fully entertained and completely satisfied watching life explode on screen into a full meal for the blood worms.
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24. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Tiny_Guys Dec 23, 2009 12:14 PM (in response to TF22Raptor2)To get back to the subject at hand... I had an iMac matte screen and loved it. Just got a MacBook Pro 13" and just hate the glossy screen. If I had a choice I would have gotten the matte screen, but it's not an option on the 13". Just offering another opinion.
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25. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
CR Henderson Dec 23, 2009 5:13 PM (in response to Marian Driscoll)Marian Driscoll wrote:
I use Mac. I use Windows. But between the two of these, I prefer to use my head. I hope the rest of us can too. Use what you like but don't dive in without knowing what you are getting in to. If someone is thinking that they are limited to glossy screens, they apparently have not researched this enough.
I must say I am also in this camp. I've used a PC since 1980 (I did have an Apple ][ for a couple of years prior to the PC but Apple lost me with the Lisa) and only last spring acquired a 24" iMac because I wanted to develop apps for my iPhone and a Mac platform is required for that activity.
The iMac has a glossy screen and my 2nd monitor is also glossy. I have a pair of 22" Samsung displays on my PC and they are matte. All four displays are calibrated with a Spyder 3 and, visually, I can detect no *practical* differences in color between the 4 displays. About 95% of my daily computer use can be accomplished on either platform--and that includes photo editing. I have LR 2.6 on both platforms and I have an Adobe Suite on the PC and CS4E on the iMac. It's likely I'll be a Windows/Mac user for years to come. Both fulfill a need and neither currently 'does it all'.
On the matte vs glossy subject...the only differences I've discovered in my daily use are:
1. One needs to be a bit more careful where a glossy display is placed. In an improper location they are very poor due to the glare. In a good location they are just fine.
2. The glossy displays are much brighter than the matte and I need to run them at the minimum brightness to get a good calibration with the Spyder 3.
Update...Marian also mentioned possible need to use 3rd party mice...I did agree with that--I hated the Apple mouse and I used a Logitech for the first few months...however, I've recently acquired one of the new touch sensitive Apple Bluetooth mice and simply love it--so much that I purchased one for my MacBook Pro, too.
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26. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Doug Katz Dec 23, 2009 6:24 PM (in response to CR Henderson)CR, let me ask a question with neither prejudice nor inflammatory intent (neither of which I harbor frankly).
Last I remember discussing the differences between a pro-level Mac and a comparable PC, the acrimony obscured any sensible observation and insight. So unpleasant was it that for many years I have simply kept a distance from any conversation remotely touching on a comparison.
You speak with dispassion and knowledge about the matter. You say, "It's likely I'll be a Windows/Mac user for years to come. Both fulfill a need and neither currently 'does it all'."
If it's not a burden, can you run down (in broad brush) what needs the PC is satisfying as we approach 2010 that the Mac does not? I'd be grateful as I too have more interest it "having it all" without regard to manufacturer or platform.
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27. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
CR Henderson Dec 23, 2009 8:23 PM (in response to Doug Katz)Doug Katz wrote:
You speak with dispassion and knowledge about the matter. You say, "It's likely I'll be a Windows/Mac user for years to come. Both fulfill a need and neither currently 'does it all'."
If it's not a burden, can you run down (in broad brush) what needs the PC is satisfying as we approach 2010 that the Mac does not? I'd be grateful as I too have more interest it "having it all" without regard to manufacturer or platform.
Over the years I have accumulated a set of 'practices' and their associated applications that work for me. Among those are several applications that are 'nitch' in nature and while they are 'old' they do exactly what I need and I don't feel the pressure to look for a replacement. Many of those run only on the PC. I will admit that for some--if not all--I could find a 'near' substitute--or write my own as my last job was as a software engineer--but I'm old enough that time is not a small consideration and I don't want to waste any of what I have left re-inventing the wheel so to speak.
Most of the more general applications either have both PC and Mac versions or have a competitor that works on one platform or the other. For example, I have an older version of Vegas that works fine for my video editing needs. Vegas is not available on the Mac, but both Apple and Adobe provide alternatives that would more than meet my modest needs. It is the more general applications that apprise 90%+ of my daily use and I would find it difficult to make a Win/Mac determination based upon the availability/quality of these general apps. I find that quality of any given piece of software isn't so much in the platform it is running on as it is the team that created the software.
So, if the 'nitch' programs that I use--or replacements for them--become available on the Mac platform I'll have a decision to make. Until then I'll continue to use both the Mac and the PC.
In the future if I choose to go with one platform it will be the Mac. There are many reasons for this but they are personal rather than technical in nature and certainly not germane to this forum so I won't even begin to list them here.
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28. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
mhollis55 Dec 24, 2009 8:31 AM (in response to CR Henderson)There is ample evidence that Apple's new displays, which include the new iMacs are wide gamut:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1373841
Describes the 24" cinema display (which I have attached to my Cheese Grater, using the Mini Display Port) which is designed to work with Apple's current crop of Macbook Pros as well as their Mac Pros. With the proper calibration tools, this monitor is capable of displaying Adobe RGB, CIE RGB, Pro Photo RGB and sRGB as well as CMYK gamuts.
The big issue with this particular monitor is its finish, which is like the finish one one's bathroom mirror. For casual (not rigorous) work, the monitor is bright enough (contrast ratio is 1000 : 1) to outshine almost any illumination point behind you. Apple doesn't produce any matte displays any more and I think what they're going for presently is a display that shows sharper blacks and more contrast. So going with an Apple monitor will give you a monitor that may be appropriately calibrated for what you are working on. It's a wide gamut monitor that may be calibrated for your particular output.
Apple is using this kind of technology for its iMacs and, if you are using Photoshop and processor-intensive applications, Apple's new Quad-Core iMac is quite impressive.
At the same time, Apple's Cinema Displays are kind of expensive when compared to other monitors. I'm sure one can find wide gamut displays that are a little cheaper and with matte finishes.
What I find on the PC side are people looking for cheap. And cheap almost never gets you a wide gamut display. I have been looking at the result, recently, of some of the mini-notebook computers and, to the extent they're surfing the Internet, you're going to find issues with their displays, some of which can only display 256 colors and will use dithering to create more.
These kinds of conflicts will continue for as long as people value cheap over all else. And these people are generally not attracted to Apple's products.
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29. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Marian Driscoll Dec 26, 2009 9:03 PM (in response to mhollis55)mhollis55 wrote:
What I find on the PC side are people looking for cheap. And cheap almost never gets you a wide gamut display.
Are you so dillusioned to think that only Apple produces and markets wide gamut displays? DISPLAYS ARE NOT PLATFORM SPECIFIC. You can run an Apple display on a Windows or Linux computer. Likewise, you can run Dell, NEC, etc on a Mac. This last post continues the same nonsense previously in this thread --- why would someone hold up a purchase of a Mac simply because of a display that they are under no obligation to buy?
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30. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
John Joslin Dec 27, 2009 5:26 AM (in response to mhollis55)My Windows workstations cost a lot more than most Apple computers.
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31. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
mhollis55 Dec 27, 2009 11:54 AM (in response to Marian Driscoll)My point is that all displays sold by Apple are wide gamut presently and that is probably not about to change.
Displays sold by PC makers that are designed to meet a particular price point tend to be universally bad, though one can always go out and buy a wide gamut display for them. The original poster was concerned about Apple displays. So I responded with a statement that they are all wide gamut.
And I realize you can pay more for a PC than you can a Mac. I recently worked on a HP workstation that (with the software and additional hardware it was sold with) cost $65,000.00, came with two wide gamut HP displays and was very useful. But the big argument PC buyers make is that Macs are more expensive and I don't think that's true in my experience.
A high performance computer can run into some money. A cheap computer comes complete with trade-offs that make that computer cheap. I wouldn't particularly want to do some of the things I expect my Mac Pro Cheese Grater running a wide Gamut 24" Apple display on a Mac Mini hooked up to an Acer V 173 bb 17 LCD (selling for $109.99). Both computers are made by Apple but the work they can do easily varies.
Apple is not the actual manufacturer of their monitors and in a previous message I offered a link to a website with an image of the maker of their 24" widescreen displays (Lucky Goldstar out of Korea). But it also shows that the particular monitor is one that is wide gamut.
Problem with the iMacs is that they come with their own displays -- but they're wide gamut. And one can attach a second monitor to modern iMacs so that one can use a high-end calibrated display for proofing. I'm pretty happy with what Apple sells. And I don't see a problem with their gamut.
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32. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Marian Driscoll Dec 28, 2009 6:08 AM (in response to mhollis55)From the information that you have provided here, we see that Apple offers wide gamut displays and that the rest of the world offers both plain sRGB and wide gamut displays - - all to suit various budgets and color requirements. So what is the point? Your previous point was that "cheap almost never gets you a wide gamut display", which you contradicted when you noted that it is possible to spend just as serious money on the Windows platform as one can spend on Mac. Seriously, there is no difference in these platforms. They both have the same capabilities or else Adobe and the various display manufacturers would not be producing a product that can operate on either platform. We don't have to live in a Windows-only or a Mac-only world. Displays are interchangeable. If you want a Mac, buy one. Don't let a perceived limitation in display purchase options hold you back.
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33. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Lundberg02 Dec 29, 2009 2:43 PM (in response to Marian Driscoll)mhollis: No monitor can display the full Pro Photo gamut.
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34. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
durella Dec 29, 2009 4:20 PM (in response to TF22Raptor2)I have a 17" MacBook Pro which runs the 24" cinema display. The gloss monitor is fine because of where it is placed and is never moved (Home office).
At work we use glossy iMacs and I find it very distracting to see moving people behind me reflected on the screen, no reflections at all when I use the laptop in the same workplace. For this reason I would recommend the matte option on the laptops. Natives may like shinny baubles, I do not
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35. Re: Want to buy an Apple but what about the glassy reflections on these monitors?
Tiny_Guys Dec 30, 2009 8:15 AM (in response to durella)One (and the only) good thing about the glossy screens is no one can ever sneak up on you.



