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1. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
Eugene Tyson Jan 27, 2010 5:21 AM (in response to [Jongware])I find this happens in CS3 at times too.
Not sure why, but when I map all the incoming styles to InDesign styles (we have word templates with the InDesign styles, so they are always styled correctly)
I then map all the styles and they come in fine. But alas, some come in the wrong point size.
I find that runnign the PreserveLocalFormatting script and then using the paragraph override fixes all the issues.
Not sure if it's the same thing though?
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2. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
[Jongware] Jan 27, 2010 5:40 AM (in response to Eugene Tyson)No, we *really* need the *original* point size. The one the author put in
I used CS3 for years and on occasion seen the odd thing, but this seems to be the new default for CS4.
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3. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
Eugene Tyson Jan 27, 2010 6:14 AM (in response to [Jongware])There have been issues with the text importing, especially the mapping styles which was fixed for 6.04.
Are you telling me, you of all people, cannot script something for this ?
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4. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
[Ariel] Feb 1, 2010 12:05 PM (in response to Eugene Tyson)Thanks Jongware for pointing this out. I've also noticed that words get left off from the ends of paragraph and reappear at the end of the document. And I also have had to go looking to see where they come from. Sometimes it's not whole words either, just a ".t " or something helpful like that.
I suspected that it was just me not doing the import thing carefully enough, so I'm glad to see it's a general problem. Not that it helps much.
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5. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
parkd1024 Mar 5, 2010 10:26 AM (in response to [Ariel])Hello all. Thank you for posting about this issue. We have found some success with saving .doc files as .rtf files.
Where the .doc data placement results in the aforementioned problem, its rich text counterpart seems to flow properly into InDesign CS4.
Perhaps one of you can test whether this prospective solution works for your needs and further the conversation. Thanks again.
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6. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
[Jongware] Mar 5, 2010 12:05 PM (in response to parkd1024)I found that a troublesome document keeps being troublesome ... saved as .doc, rtf, or docx. At any time, something or the other goes wrong with the very same document: cut off bits and pieces of text, footnotes that go haywire, formatting out of whack, text cut off immediately following a table ... And so on. So as soon as I see it happen on a particular doc, I import it into CS3, save, open that in CS4 and copy the text out of it. No problem anymore.
I filed a bug report to Adobe Tech services. Sent one of my Word docs with it, along with a CS4 file showing the problem of bits of text coming in at the end. They went over those files for a week and reported back "The change in text runs is because (a) the page size and margins of your Word file do not match that of your InDesign file, and (b) because of different layout and formatting options, the text may not run the same even if so." That made me laugh. Until I cried.
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7. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
peter at knowhowpro Mar 5, 2010 12:22 PM (in response to [Jongware])[Jongware] wrote:
I found that a troublesome document keeps being troublesome ... saved as .doc, rtf, or docx. At any time, something or the other goes wrong with the very same document: cut off bits and pieces of text, footnotes that go haywire, formatting out of whack, text cut off immediately following a table ... And so on. So as soon as I see it happen on a particular doc, I import it into CS3, save, open that in CS4 and copy the text out of it. No problem anymore.
I filed a bug report to Adobe Tech services. Sent one of my Word docs with it, along with a CS4 file showing the problem of bits of text coming in at the end. They went over those files for a week and reported back "The change in text runs is because (a) the page size and margins of your Word file do not match that of your InDesign file, and (b) because of different layout and formatting options, the text may not run the same even if so." That made me laugh. Until I cried.
Thanks for the CS3 solution.
The mismatched margins issue sounds bogus to me. If stuff shows up at the end of file, out of sequence, it's most likely because the particular version of Word in which the original file was created got confused about managing incremental edits, and the file was "fast saved," which keeps the file content and changes in chronological order of creation, and uses pointers to mark what's added and what's to be deleted or ignored. Some versions of Word were so bad at this that even Word itself couldn't interpret the mishmash when opening a fast-saved file of its own.
A good practice that I don't recall seeing mentioned on these forums is, if possible, to make sure to save the Word file to a new name in Word, before converting or placing it in InDesign. Just as InDesign does, saving to a new name reorders the file content and cleans out the spaghetti pointers. I believe that InDesign's spaghetti doesn't go bad so often as Word's, but it's always a good idea to save to a new name periodically. It's possible that some problems that affect exchanging INX files are related to the reliance on pointers to keep a file in order.
Regards,
Peter
_______________________
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
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8. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
[Jongware] Mar 5, 2010 12:57 PM (in response to peter at knowhowpro).. the file was "fast saved" ...
Yeah, that has been the bane of Adobe programs for a couple of decades now. Even PageMaker (before Adobe bought it, and after!) had problems with it.
.. However! Saving a file as RTF from Word should flatten the file entirely, as RTF does not use any internal pointers to text. A quick peek with a program that loads RTF as plain text confirms the RTF files are, in fact, entirely in good order.
Since the same files import without any problem at all in CS3, it must be something inside CS4 that got broken. I do recall I had similar problems with CS2 and CS3, where importing a file in old CS could fix it (but not if it contained footnotes ) -- it seems that one got fixed somewhere along the updates.
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9. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
Joel Cherney Mar 5, 2010 1:24 PM (in response to [Jongware]).. However! Saving a file as RTF from Word should flatten the file entirely, as RTF does not use any internal pointers to text. A quick peek with a program that loads RTF as plain text confirms the RTF files are, in fact, entirely in good order.
Since the same files import without any problem at all in CS3, it must be something inside CS4 that got broken. I do recall I had similar problems with CS2 and CS3, where importing a file in old CS could fix it (but not if it contained footnotes
) -- it seems that one got fixed somewhere along the updates.You folks are a bit out of my league right now, but maybe this will help: Hey Jongware, are you claiming that you can read the RTF format in raw text? I mean, I've periodically been staring at the innards of RTFs for some years now, and I can barely parse 'em. The reason I started popping RTFs open in Notepad and staring at the markup was that I was trying to figure out why SDLX export/reimport wasn't working, and like many people who have to process RTFs specifically, I started looking around for tools to process RTFs, and quickly got on the in-and-out-of-OpenOffice bandwagon. Running a Word-generated RTF through OO often results in a file that is identical onscreen in a word processing app but radically different inside.
If you are experiencing problems with Word/RTF import in CS4, I would expect that something has changed in Indy's Word/RTF import processing between CS3 and CS4. And sure, saving an RTF out of Word when you're having .doc import problems is useful, but my personal understanding of the RTF spec is that the Word output is never "entirely in good order" - which I'd interpret as "set up according to spec," and there is plenty of MS Word-only cruft in a Word-generated RTF.
So, have you tried processing your RTFs in something that is not Word in your bug-hunt efforts? Just a thought - I assume you've already pursued this possibility. I'm simply surprised that a) you can just eyeball RTF markup in Notepad and know that it's good, and b) if you have to handle RTFs on that level, that you could call generic MS Word RTF output "good."
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10. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
[Jongware] Mar 5, 2010 1:57 PM (in response to Joel Cherney)So, have you tried processing your RTFs in something that is not Word in your bug-hunt efforts? Just a thought - I assume you've already pursued this possibility. I'm simply surprised that a) you can just eyeball RTF markup in Notepad and know that it's good, and b) if you have to handle RTFs on that level, that you could call generic MS Word RTF output "good."
Erm. Yes? (I used Wordpad, actually -- but I've written programs to make RTF readable in the past.)
RTF is an old format, and actually, very well-defined. Even all MS crap conforms to the standard, i.e., when eyeballing something unrecognizable, all you have to do is count open and close curly brackets until you get to zero again.
All I have to do to actually confirm an RTF is "good" (and confirm it's InDesign that mangles it on importing!) is to search for a paragraph that had its end transposed to the end of the ID story. Plain text is usually readable, all the way from its opening "{/par " up to the closing "}". So that's how I know the RTF isn't bad.
I hate to repeat myself, but it's really important to note this misery doesn't happen with the same file in CS3; and I'm also fairly convinced things changed with one of the latest CS4 updates, as I have been using CS4 since its initial release (one-and-a-half year? two?) and surely would have noticed this behavior before!
(Same goes for erratic importing of footnotes -- last week I missed a note, getting that dreaded pink box instead, and all next notes' contents shifted "up" one notch. I actually found out that the missing note's text was imported: it was placed as a footnote at the bottom of the first footnote. You read that right: as another footnote. Oh boy -- I should really have saved that file to bug Tech Support with.)
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11. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
Pat Gazzoli Jun 2, 2010 1:11 PM (in response to [Jongware])There's little comfort in finding out I'm not alone with this problem. I never had this issue with CS3. Is it possible to run both CS3 and CS4 on the same computer?
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12. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
[Jongware] Jun 2, 2010 1:27 PM (in response to Pat Gazzoli)Absolutely! I had running CS (one) up to CS 3 on a single system until it had to have its windows cleansed. On one system I now have '3 and '4, mainly to be able to handle legacy files (.. not trusting bug-free document enhancing, and with good reason, alas), but also to get the occasional troublesome Word file into any ID.
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13. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
Pat Gazzoli Jun 3, 2010 7:39 AM (in response to [Jongware])Two questions... is Adobe addressing this issue? does the problem exist in CS5? (I've never had an even numbered version of Adobe product that I liked).
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14. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
P Spier Jun 3, 2010 7:49 AM (in response to Pat Gazzoli)Nobody here is in a position to know if it's being worked on -- or even if it's been reproduced by the development team. It isn't exactly an everyday occurrence or something that happens with every Word file (I've never seen it, but Jongware and soem other heavy importers of Word docs have seen it multiple times), so identifying what the probelm might be is the first hurdle.
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15. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
Pat Gazzoli Jun 3, 2010 7:58 AM (in response to P Spier)I've had it happen to me several times over the past couple of weeks with ~ 1/2 my word files. Previously it didn't. What I will say again is that I first thought the problem was with Word and/or Endote but converting my files to RTF and TXT did not fix the problem.
How does one go about getting an issue like this worked on?
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16. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
P Spier Jun 3, 2010 8:25 AM (in response to Pat Gazzoli)You can file a bug report at Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form, but if you can't provide an iron-clad way to reproduce the problem everytime, I don't know that it will get much attention. Offer your problem files...
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17. Re: [CS4] Word Import severely broken
[Jongware] Jun 3, 2010 8:42 AM (in response to P Spier).. identifying what the probelm might be is the first hurdle ..
[..]
.. Offer your problem files...
Please do. And don't let my latest experience with those guys scare you off (Customer Support claimed it was "expected" that text "does not run the same as in Word" because of "other fonts, other margin settings, other page size, etc." -- and, despite me immediately responding they were full of BS (in a friendly way), subsequently closed the case).



