Excellent! Just tried out the new Camera profiles on a couple of my more problematic D700 files, and the color posterization I used to see seems to be gone. Thanks for making these new beta profiles available. Good work!
This is absolutely great! I was waiting for this day for a long time! I think this is the main thing I wanted from LR version 3!
However there significant changes in overall colour rendering, especially in lightr-blue\green colours but I can live with it.
Hi Per, thanks for the feedback, but you'll have to be more specific if you want further improvements. I should add that comparisons to DxO are not useful for this project, because the purpose of these "Camera" profiles is to match the results from NX (whether "good" or "bad"). Just FYI.
Thanks for those profiles! My comments :
- Posterization is gone! That is great.
- Colors are pretty much like the one you get from Capture NX and more accurate than previous profile (at least they seem to)
- The previous tone curve was closer to the CNX one than the v2 beta profiles. This one is closer with highlights (except the clipping point) but not mid tones that are brighter.
- Highlights are still clipping 0.5EV earlier than CNX, giving too often burnt highlights (BaselineExposure).
Thanks Romain. Unfortunately I can't change the BaselineExposure at this point (for reasons of backwards compatibility) but I'll see what I can do about getting the tone curves to match better.
Just downloaded the v2 D3/D700 profiles. This now give a much better match to the native camera picture controls as rendered with Capture NX. Now I have consistency of images in my workflow from camera to lightroom without having to go via NX.
V. 1 gave much too flat colors, especially a brightly sunlit yellow house facade was washed out, but now is very close to NX. In addition, NX skin tones were warmer, and contrast not as agressive as V1. V2 seems to have gotten so close now, that for it is in the range of very acceptable.
Also, the de-mosaic of D700 raw fines with fine density leaves, foliage seems to be improved compared to NX. Nikon D700 always had a tendency to render this type of scenes mushy compared to Canon 5D (just look at Ken Rockwells examples), and I have also experienced the same. Seems like the new lightroom engine has improved on this. Also, the sharpening seems to be improved by being able to apply much more sharpening without objectionable artifacts creeping in as soon. It would be nice to know if I am just hallucinating, or if the developers really have worked on this;-)
For the profiles to match I have to turn off Active D-lighting, a feature which reduces dynamic range in a very fine manner with the D700.
In addition the D-lighting (fine) is NX does a better job than what I can figure out in Lightroom, so this is an area of technology that Adobe should work on (or I need to figure out how to do it better using Lightroom). As far as I can see, Fill lighting is nowhere near as good, but highlight recover is Lightroom appears better. I suspects Lightroom "cheats" by extrapolating values from clipped channels, while NX refuses to guess at what non-capture values might be. (again, I would welcome if the LR developers could comment on this conjecture ;-)
Finally, the U point editing in NX in really brilliant and in addition ViewNX is much faster at previewing and zooming on NEF files.
And one more "final", what about the automatic chromatic abberation correction done by NX, would be nice if LR could do it so I don't have to worry about it.
Although I have not yet gotten to a single software package for post-processing, LR3 will probably reduce my dependency on NX, but not VIEW NX.
Sorry about these last off-subject comments, I know this is a camera profile forum...., but mimicing the Picture controls is a big step forward.
My purpose in showing the raw converting from DXO was not to compare programs, but to show that there is still, albeit smaller, is a problem with Posterization, as I often have tasks that includes white walls or light pastel colors, this is a very annoying problem because it is very time consuming to remove.
It has been a recurring problem with Nikon profiles, but D3 is worse than ever, so I for that reason have been forced to use other converters do not have the problem. It has actually been so problematic that I have had 2 times the camera with Nikon because I was convinced that it was an error in the camera. But I am very pleased that Adobe is addressing the problem and hopefully get it resolved
In addition, I can only give CarstenPix right to automatic CA correction will be very helpful. Although it has nothing to do with profiles.
Here are some more examples showing the problem. camera std. V.2 left./ V.1 Right.
Hi, overall tonality/contrast rendition are improved.
Reds specifically crimsons and to lesser extent orange are still not rendering true natural colours compared to custom calibrated profiles from a colour chart.
D700 - LR2
Thanks for your comments. I'll try address some of them here.
Regarding demosaic, sharpening, etc. in Lightroom 3 beta 2: yes, these have all undergone refinements relative to Camera Raw 5 / Lightroom 2. No hallucinations on your part (at least not in this regard!).
Regarding fill light: note that the fill light threshold has been adjusted in LR 3 beta 2 and this should result in some reduce artifacts compared to earlier versions. Naturally there is always room for improvement going forward, but that is where things stand today.
The other items you've mentioned are generally already in the Lightroom Feature Requests forum. If you would like to elaborate on any of these, I request that you find the corresponding feature request threads in that sub-forum and append to those appropriately. Thanks.
Thanks Per. It is clear now. Could you please provide the raw files corresponding to these sample images? They would help me refine further. If so, please use YouSendIt.com with target email address firstname.lastname@example.org.
Hi Rudi, I think you may be misunderstanding the purpose of these profiles. The goal of these profiles is not to produce natural colors. The goal is simply to produce the same rendition that NX produces (whether good or bad, natural or not) -- and hopefully artifact-free. To be clear: The original feature request was, "Please give us colors similar to the camera maker's colors."
Just tried the new D700 profiles, great improvement, far less posterization and strange blocked out dark when using the D2x modes. Keep up the great work, all looks promising!
Thank you MadManChan2000 for your effort! I have tried new profiles and they looks great, but I found out some un-smoothness in photo of rainbow. The transitions of Camera x v2 are not smooth as older Camera x. There is a leap between yellow and green and between cyan and blue. Very similar unsmooth transitions are visible in profile Adobe Standard.
On this link you can download original raw + xmp and exported jpg (Camera Standard v2 vs. Camera Standard beta1):
Takyhonza, thanks for the sample, I will study.
Eric, thanks very much for your efforts! Here is a sample where your changes have helped me (LR rendering done in LR3B2).
The Nikon NX and v2 camera neutral renderings are almost identical, while the v1 camera neutral rendering is blotchy in comparison.
I will look for ones that do not work as well, but this is looking good Eric.
Is this just for the D3 or also for the D3s?
Wayne Rotz wrote:
Is this just for the D3 or also for the D3s?
I saw somewhere that Eric said the profiles for the D3s are different and already "corrected".
It would be helpful to have a confirmation that the D3s profiles are already "optimized". Thanks!
I feel silly asking this, but I am using Vista and I don't have a file called ProgramData
, and for that matter I can't even find one called Camera Raw. That being said, if I go through adobe labs I have no proble
m istalling their camera profiles, so I am sure there is a place for yours to go. Do you have any other suggestions
on a way to install there files? I am so frustrated with my D700's NEF files.
In the windows explorer, under the folder options > view: make sure you have "show hidden files, folders and drives" checked.
I hope that this update to the D3/D700 Nikon Camera profiles will eventually flow through to other Nikon models. I have very noticable
cyan/magenta banding in some raw images from my D90 camera when Camera profiles are applied, such as Camera Standard. This banding reduces significantly when I apply the Adobe Standard profile, but doesn't elimate it completely.
Thank you so much for taking action on this! It must be a daunting task to maintain, update and add to the camera profile list and therefore we all do appreciate your work!
Another profile that caught my eye since quite some time is the Canon 5D Mark II Standard profile. In contrary to the camera's behavior (or that of DPP) this profile renders images in warm light and with low exposure not very well. Especially with skin tones this shows up negatively.
Thanks for listening!
Eric outstanding job on these. Just downloaded these profiles and compared them to the profiles that were in Camera Raw 6.
These profiles are much better than the default profiles in Camera Raw 6, much less banding and much better neutrals.
Now if you could just create a set of profiles that would match the colors and curve that Capture One Pro 5 produces
I'd pay good money for that.
Eric, any plans to produce these for the D3X? Thanks.
It's my birthday today and you've just sent me an unexpected but very welcome present!
I don't post much on this forum but thought I'd make the effort to thank you for the hard work and effort you've put into improving this - and other - areas of Camera Raw. I've been working with Photoshop since it's first release here in the UK and have been shooting Nikons about as long. Since the change to digital I've always felt that the Adobe conversions - in Lightroom and Camera Raw - didn't quite give the quality I was getting from NX and NX2.
With the updates to the Camera Raw engine and the new camera profiles - which I presume is replicated in the Lightroom 3 v2 beta that I've been testing - the quality has come on leaps and bounds, so much so that I'm seriously considering moving the majority of my work over to Lightroom 3 when it's released but certainly to Camera Raw in the short to mid-term.
I'll get on with some more serious testing later this week but just thought I drop by and leave a token of my appreciation.
Keep up the good work!
Replica Imaging Limited - UK
Confused as to which are the latest versions of these profiles. Are the profiles listed as the download "v.2 beta" updated profile with files dated March 10, 2010 intended to supercede the profiles included in the Camera Raw update 5.7 with file dates of April 7, 2010, are they the same as those with the most recent Raw update, or what?
The goal is simply to produce the same rendition that NX produces (whether good or bad, natural or not) -- and hopefully artifact-free. To be clear: The original feature request was, "Please give us colors similar to the camera maker's colors."
Eric, thanks very much for the work you've done on these profiles. After working on my own custom camera profiles, I know how much work this takes. So thanks again for the noticeably improved results.
Quick question for you: The following website has some sample images that seem to demonstrate some weaknesses in the way Lightroom produces almost banding-like artifacts when rendering color gradients or defocused areas of color (I see his happen, for example, if there are out-of-focus flowers in the background of wedding images (usually deep reds and deep purples are the worst culprits).
See near the bottom of this page:
So my other question is: Is this more a function of better calibrating and tweaking for the color table within the DNG Profile Editor? Or is it more a function of tweaking the Tone Cuve?
When are these going "Gold"? (shipping)
These profiles are very close to the in camera JPG. Perfect!
Would it be possible to get an updated profile for a D300 as good quality as these?
Really dumb question here, but in my Camera Profiles folder I've got folders named 'Camera', 'Camera beta 1', 'Camera beta 2', and now 'Camera v2 beta'. How do I know which camera profiles are being used in LR3?
Not a dumb question.
In the LR3 Develop Module, scroll down to Camera Calibration. The second setting down is Profile and it is a dropdown list from which you can choose which profile you want to use.
The question I have is which of the profiles is the most recent? For example, I show Camera Portrait, Camera Portrait beta 1 and Camera Portrait v2 (for the Nikon D3). It's the same assortment of choices for Landscape, Natural, Standard and Vivid. Am I correct that v2 is the most recent version of each set of profiles?
v2 is the beta set of profiles described in the original post at the top of this thread. They are the most recent set but not official / not final.
Thanks, Eric. Your quick reply and the great profiles are much appreciated.
I put the two folders "Nikon D700" and Nikon D3 inside the CameraProfiles folder (Mac - 10.5) and also put the Camera v2 beta folder in there as well (first) but LR3 under Camera Calibration/Profile all is see is "Embedded." Any sugestions?
You're using JPEGs.
all is see is "Embedded." Any sugestions?
What Dorin said.
Camera profiles are used for converting raw images, so you need to be working on your raw files, not files which have already been converted.
Ah, sorry. I had the NEF and the JPEG next to each other and picked the wrong one.