1 3 4 5 6 7 8 Previous Next 308 Replies Latest reply on Dec 7, 2010 4:27 PM by SEOConsultant Go to original post
      • 160. Re: Pay for InContext ???
        razorxdev Level 1

        Russ,

         

        The final price and base plan is not all set in stone yet. Adobe is still taking ideas and opinions for it. I mean let's get real... every other hosted CMS like PageLime is already at a base price of $19 or $20 and SurrealCMS is $25 a month. Server stability and company longevity is also a concern with the other CMS hosters. These flakey CMS providers may or may not be around in the next few years, where as Adobe will be.

         

        Also maybe you didn't catch the part about ICE being free for the next year. Why should I pay $25 a month now to SurrealCMS or $19 to PageLime when ICE is currently free for a while..? By the time Adobe works out the bugs and offically launches it and if I still don't like it after all of that, then I just switch to something else at that point.

         

        Go use PageLime is you think it's so much better, and do us all a favor and remove your non-factual ramblings from the ICE forums.

        • 161. Re: Pay for InContext ???
          ew3d Level 1

          The bottom line is the 'bottom line' for all involved. Putting this into perspective, charging $20 per month for small business hosting is likely about the norm. Obviously there are those who pay a lot less and those that pay a lot more. We have in the past used a cms program which had a one time fee of $10 per client. On this model, we chose to charge $75 per year and many clients were happy with that. We switched over to inContext when it appeared in CS4.

           

          Now, to think that it will cost us $5 per month per client is $60 per year. So we have a total of about 15 minutes of support time for our clients left over and no profit if this is used. Well, from the real world, it takes us much more than 15 minutes per client to support any CMS. That is if you actually offer support. They will find a way to create a mess. inContext is no exception.

           

          inContext leaves behind lots of empty tags and these do need to be cleaned up, at least when an update falls to us. We really can't charge for that clean up as we already charge for the use of that program. Clients shouldn't be charged for bugs in things we sell them.

           

          To think we could charge an additional $10 to $20 per month, $120 to $240 per year, where we are charging $75 now, puts it over the top and clients would start to migrate to less expensive services. Crud, there are $1.99/month hosting services out there with CMS!!!

           

          Adobe certainly needs to have some income to provide the service. I would however doubt that 100 clients time on the inContext system amounts to the bandwidth use of one hosting account. Yes, there is the coding and development of inContext. However, the use of inContext strenghtens the need to use Adobe Dreamweaver. This promotes the need for Dreamweaver leading to income for Adobe in other areas. Can anybody now remember the 'free' MSIE? What happened to Netscape?

           

          I feel that Adobe will need to come up with a very reasonable pricing structure, or we'll need to move elsewhere for CMS.

          • 162. Re: Pay for InContext ???
            Capt Obvious Level 1

            Razor,

             

            Pagelime is $19 for 50 sites, and surrealCMS is $28 for unlimited, so clealry those facts speak for themselves if talking about value for money when compared to Adobe's proposed prices so far.

            I am well aware ICE will be FREE for the next year, but as I and others have said several times, PageLime and SurrealCMS are simply better with more features, for me and presumably others that is a good enough reason to use them right now and pay for them. If yoiu are happy being a beta tester for ICE and using it on live sites because it will be free for the next year than that is great for you of course and you are free to use it, that is up to you and no-one else. However as others have mentioned there are a lot of bugs, because it is a beta, so it wouldn't really seem appropriate to be using it in a live production environment and then moan about the bugs. Note that I have not moaned about the bugs because I know it is a beta and that is how I have been using it.

            Perhaps in 1 year from now Adobe will have fixed the bugs and improved the features to match those other products and come up with a good pricing model, but only time will tell.

             

            If you care to check the sites in questions you will find all the facts to be true and not ramblings., so you may want to consider checking the facts before throwing your toys out of the pram and dishing out insults which are not warranted.

            • 163. Re: Pay for InContext ???
              Captain Slocum

              I have just tried pagelime on your recommendation. I am afraid I found it flakey in the extreme (5 error mesages in the first 5 minutes) and, more to the point, it is NOT WYSIWYG, in spite of the site using that term several times, so we are not comparing like with like. When a customer clicks the edit button ithe DIV contents are shown in a basic text editor. This is not what my customers want to see, they are non-webbies who are used to making flyers in MS Publisher.

               

              My original point, which seems to have got lost several years ago in this thread it seems, is not that Incontext is not any good - it is far better than Cushy, Surreal, Pagelime et al and far simpler than joomla etc - but that Adobe mis-led me and, in spite of my protestations, are are still mis-leading people into thinking it was a free part of DW4. Refer to my previous postings for the facts. The only reason I posted in the first place is that if people let big corporations get away with mis-leading advertising they will keep doing it.

               

              I have the highest regard for the Adobe/Macromedia developers: Photoshop, Lightroom and Dreamweaver are suberb products with no equals, and I suspect ICE will be too one day but they are let down by their shyster marketing division who think they can say what they like (and charge double to us Brits).

               

              That feels better!

              • 164. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                Capt Obvious Level 1

                Captain,

                 

                PageLime certainly is WYSIWYG, the demo video shows that very clealry so not sure why you think it is not as it looks just the same as any other W|YSIWYG editor. It would seem your attempt to try out pagelime failed so you never got to see it working, not quite how though as it is stupidly easy to get working.

                • 165. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                  Captain Slocum Level 1

                  I did get Pagelime working - I don't give up that easily. But when I went to a page I wanted to edit with Pagelime, and clicked one of the Edit bubbles. I was taken away from the page and into a text editor. That is NOT WYSIWYG. Please tell me what I should have done to stay within the page so I could have edited truly WYSIWYG like ICE. I really want to know, as I would love to find a better CMS system. And as for the error messages, I simply followed the instructions for setting up a new site. The error messages I got from the programme were completely incomprehensible. Sorry if you don't like that: perhaps you are tied in to the company in some way in which case you should be taking what I say on board and finding the bugs instead of calling me stupid.

                  • 166. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                    gibry21

                    I have to admit, having followed this thread for some time now, your earlier post (2 up) is the most sensible thing anybody has said in a long time. The point here is about a major organisation mis-leading its leading customer base...and not really about how good bad or uglgy the product is. We are all well aware there are other products out there, and which ever one anybody choose's, with enough time and effort you can make it work for you.

                     

                    Ryan

                    • 167. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                      Spod

                      I agree with the majority of comments here.

                       

                      I used InContext for a client site of limited budget that required a simple CMS. InContext fit the budget, development timeline and client functionality requirements. I honestly don't remember seeing ANYTHING that suggested that InContext was anything but a free service and came to it via my new and very expensive Web Premium CS4.

                       

                      The development was a one-off payment there is no room  to approach the client and ask for more money for a service that we sold to them as complete and ongoing.

                       

                      Isn't this kind of marketing the classic, cliched approach of drug dealers?!! The first few times are free until the user needs it then the costs kick in! Surely a large, reputable company such as Adobe doesn't need to stoop to these kinds of tactics.

                       

                      The budget for my particular client site is spent and gone, my client is trained and comfortable with the service and happy that we have solved their problems within their budget. They are reliant on the service now, their site is live and using it, to turn around after the fact and drop the bombshell that they now have to start paying for what they have been using free for a good while now is out of order. Either we:

                      1. approach them with this and blow any credability that we have with them
                        or
                      2. they have to accept that they can no longer update their site in which case they would be totally justified in asking us for a partial refund
                        or
                      3. we swallow the cost of rebuilding in another architecture on their behalf.

                      None of these options are acceptable.

                       

                      However, possible options that Adobe should consider that could get them out of what I consider is a rather embarrassing situation for them, are:

                      1. Immediately updating their website to CLEARLY state that the service is free for a limited time only, so that developers can take this into account before approaching a client with InContext as their CMS solution, this way the ongoing costs can be built in. This, however, would still be no good for any existing users but would allow Adobe to not alienate any more of the world's web designers/developers i.e. a big part of their client base.

                      2. Keeping the service free for anyone who has already started using the service and CLEARLY state that any new sign ups from that point on need to pay for the service and state the final fixed pricing structure, again allowing future developments to cost the price of the service into the job.

                      3. Keep the service in it's present form forever free and introduce a PRO service with new features such as a fully formed page structure manager that will do useful things like allow users to delete old unused pages, contains an online image editor for users that need to use the service remotely and can't access software on their own computers, have enhanced user permissions management and a whole slew of other suggestions that are glaringly missing from the current version. As a free service it's fine but I don't think the very simple and limited CMS as it stands is worth paying for. This option will allow developers to have their existing clients carry on as normal or would allow room to approach the client with the suggestion of upgrading to a paid service that is a more advanced and useful set up.

                      4. Any form of the InContext service could be forever free to Adobe customers that have forked out a lot of money for at least Dreamweaver CS4 upwards and part of the registration sign up for InContext could offer input of a Dreamweaver product code and double check that the software has been registered. This would unlock it's features free and any other users coming to the service that aren't existing Adobe customers could be informed CLEARLY that there is a $20 ongoing fee for the service.

                       

                      I for one won't be using InContext again until this pricing uncertainty is cleared up and even then if it does become a paid service I wouldn't use the current CMS very-lite version as I don't believe it is worth paying for (sorry Adobe, I'm sure a lot of hard work has gone into InContext and it looks quite nice but you're re-inventing the wheel, other free*, open source projects offer far more) I would opt for a far more feature rich open source framework.

                       

                      I think Adobe should just keep the service free.

                       

                      Cheers.

                       

                      Trevor.

                       

                      PS sorry if I have banged on about stuff already covered in other posts, I only scan read a few of them!

                      • 168. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                        Bobxyzzy Level 1

                        I am as unhappy as anyone with the InContext situation, and I felt they had Contribute wrong too, at least for the market segments I am involved in.

                         

                        But, in fairness - I understand Adobe has as much problem providing an open ended service for a one time payment as we do.  Recognizing that, it was not too hard for me to notice the weasel words about the future outlook for costs.  In fact I have yet to convert from Contribute to InContext.  My situation makes on-going subscription costs difficult to handle, but also I wonder about Adobe's long term commitment to InContext.  The longer the present situation continues the less confidence I have and the more cautious I become about making commitments involving it.  Look at what they did to GoLive for example.

                         

                        Adobe does seem to be in a rather odd position with this.  InContext service has been free for quite a while now, they seem uncertain of when or how to convert to a revenue model for it, and the longer they wait the harder and more painful for them any change change will be.  It seems to have something to do with trying to figure out new revenue models that fit with the trend towards cloud computing and the attractiveness of on-going revenue models over the boom and bust that goes with periodic new version releases.  So far they don't seem to be doing too well. 

                         

                        Again, in fairness, do the customers we are talking about get their web servers for a one time fee, or do they have a monthly cost for that part?  Do they have any guarantee of what that cost for the web server (or the domain name, etc.) will be in the future?

                        • 169. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                          PageLimeTeam Level 1

                          Whoa, haven't been here a while - let me try to get a handle on this whole thread .

                           

                          First off, thanks for being a PageLime champion here Russ, and I don't think it was fair that people suggested you were somehow involved with us. We speak out for ourselves .

                           

                          So - here's my take. PageLime is a more feature rich app than InContext hands down. I don't want to get into a feature thread, so I'll focus a bit on some implicit benefits: The two guys who started PageLime, Emil (me) and Tom, are two guys with an email address (emil[at]pagelime.com and tom[at]pagelime.com). You can reach us any time to get PageLime support issues fixed, get ideas, ask questions, or just share links (we like cool youtube videos too). Heck we even pop up in people's gmail chat. Sure, you can post in our forum or on our feature suggestion system too - but the way we feel is that if your client has an urgent issue, you should be able to email or call us. On that note - our roadmap is for the most part public (pagelime.uservoice.com) - it's whatever people want. Ultimately, we like to directly communicate with our users and we're honest about our product.

                           

                          Ok, touchy feely stuff out of the way - Captain Slocum brings up two points: he had trouble signing up, and he didn't feel like our WYSIWYG is as good as InContext. I sent him a personal note and I want to make sure we address both of these.

                           

                          I personally get both direct feedback messages whenever there's a bug, and a detailed automated log with the last action the user took, and a full description of the problem. As with any product (this isn't my first rodeo) I get quite a few of these every day (most are various FTP and firewall issues for different hosts), and I really try to reply to every user who has a problem. I open up an email, and ask if there's any way I can help. (I'm sure I get flagged as SPAM by default by most email providers by now ).

                           

                          As for the WYSIWG point he brought up, I'm on the fence here. Here's why: InContext has true inline editing, while we have open up a little overlay where you type in your changes, and then click OK and those get rendered into the page in real time. I agree that it's better to have true inline editing, but InContext is so early in the product cycle that they haven't had to deal with some of the things we have: SIFR, Cufon, Javascript animated slideshows, etc. And all of these don't play nice with true inline editing. We're working on a prototype that does, but even if it is ready for release in Q2 2010 we can't guarantee that the 1000s of PageLime users will want it this way.

                           

                          Short story: Product Management isn't a super easy job - and I don't envy Adobe's position in this whole story at all. The more specifics they commit to, the less flexibility they'll have in the future to change their product without upsetting their user base. I just feel that the difference is that PageLime's going to be honest and transparent about this process. That's a promise.

                           

                          Definitely reply or reach out with with any feedback.

                          • 170. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                            [S]up Level 1

                            40.000 People !!! That's a wow number...

                            THANK YOU ALL WHO SHARED THEIR OWN WORDS HERE IN THIS DISCUSSION !!


                            I did never injected the ICE feature in to my code since I sent my last post in here. I just keep reading yours as they will show if I was the only one who felt tricked by Adobe Marketing Team by Showing ICE as a free / included feature of new Dreamweaver CS4 and make people buy or upgrade the current one.

                             

                            I can now see very clearly that every 99 of 100 CS4 user did felt the same way as me. I can also see that Adobe (officers) did watch us here and answered us by posting answers in to our Discussion.

                             

                            I am now wondering what will happen with the ICE service since people doesn't use it after they heared that they or their clients will need to pay $10 or $20 per month to use ICE in their web pages.

                            I am now wondering how people will turst Adobe's new product version presentations after they already make us felt tricked by the last pricing suprise of ICE.


                            I am now wondering what would Adobe Marketing Team do more to destroy Adobe Developers great works and Adobe's company trust after all this happenings.

                             

                            I am also wondering when will this pain end with the pricing the ICE? Can't Adobe really see that people will not use The ICE unless they have it included to DW or inclued as one time price as it should at the begging istead of trying to inject it peoples web pages and then announce very later that is a paid service!.

                             

                            Thank you all for following the discussion with us from the first day...
                            Whishing good news from Adobe before The ICE become a dead service with this uncertain situation...

                             

                            Regards...

                            • 171. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                              x911Feb19

                              Well, I just found out today about the proposed fee for using InContext, and I am as appalled as all the others.  Yes, I purchased Dreamweaver CS4, SOLELY FOR THIS APP, and could just as easily continued to use CS3.  I now feel Adobe should be kind enough to refund my purchase for CS4, given that it was certainly NOT clear to me that the InContextEditing feature would soon be charged for.  Have we been duped?  I think so- shame on you, Adobe.  I have always been one of your greatest fans!!!

                              Circe

                              • 172. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                dhoviss

                                Here is a rather extensive list of alternitive FOS - CMS - surely one of these will be useful to one of you... Lets move on!

                                -Daniel

                                • abcOnline CMS Dynamic Content Management System (SaaS,Software as a Service)
                                • Alfresco Open Source Enterprise Content Management System
                                • Ametys Java Web Open Source Content Management System (CMS)
                                • ARNIA CMS .NET Content Management System ARNIA by Millennium000. TinyMCE is part of the CMS.
                                • ATutor Learning Content Management System
                                • b2evolution
                                • Best Site Editor CMS Designed for small business as all-inclusive website solution.
                                • BIGACE Open Source Web CMS from Germany. Easy, fast, extendable. TinyMCE available as AddOn.
                                • bitweaver TinyMCE available as a package for html format plugin
                                • BlueInk Content Management System by BigBlueHat. TinyMCE standard included
                                • Bloxz Content Management System by Sebastian Webprojecten. TinyMCE standard included
                                • Citadel An open source groupware platform (email, calendars, contacts, forums, etc.) that uses TinyMCE as its WYSIWYG editor.
                                • ClickCommerce An easy CMS developed in Italy by wirge.
                                • Cliqon Lite A CMS and web site development toolset especially designed for sites requiring multiple languages Webcliq.
                                • CompactCMS.nl An efficient, light-weight and fully Ajax loaded CMS. Just content management, nothing more, nothing less.
                                • Compass Web Content Management System (CMS) Web CMS software with an emphasis on usability. Offered as a hosted SaaS CMS system.
                                • Content Management System TinyMCE standard included
                                • COMS ASP/SQL server standards based bilingual/Welsh CMS from SquareSolutions, TinyMCE option
                                • COMSHARP CMS .NET & W3C Based CMS (TinyMCE as the default content editor)
                                • CMS made simple plugin available from CMSms Forge
                                • CMSv2 Content Management System, powered by Starsale. TinyMCE standard included
                                • Contenido
                                • Covide Open Source CMS, CRM, Groupware and Projectmanagement. Also available via SourceForge and Covide NL
                                • Contentpapst TinyMCE integration as of V3.6, plugin available from sandoba.de Entwickler-Blog
                                • ContentXL JSP based CMS with TinyMCE as editor)
                                • CWSnetwork wcm.desk - Java based CMS (TinyMCE is the Content Editor)
                                • croMEA - Java based Content Management System that use TinyMCE  as it's default WYSIWYG editor.
                                • Desk02 SEO CMS - Search Engine Optimised CMS
                                • dit.cms - Open Source CMS, for PHP programmers that wish to focus on module development.
                                • dotCMS - Open Source Enterprise Web CMS, CRM and eCommerce platform.
                                • Drupalinstructions
                                • e107 → e107's Default WYSIWYG Editor - TinyMCE w/e107 Docs
                                • Easy Website Builder - Build your own website services, professional Website Design, website hosting, and website marketing.
                                • Easy-Web A website CMS from Datawise Systems in Norwich, Norfolk
                                • Edit-X - Control Your Content
                                • encurioCMS PHP based Web Content Management with WYSIWYG Real-Time Editor
                                • Enonic Vertical Site - progressive web content management for java
                                • EQUELLA - A Java-based Digital Repository that incorporating Learning Objects, Learning Content Management and integrated content authoring
                                • Estrada - Enterprise web and intranet solutions to fully engage and strengthen relationships with key constituents via the web.
                                • Etomite CMS - Content Management Simplified . Fast, Free, and Infinitely Flexible
                                • Expression Engine
                                • eZ Publish - Open Source Enterprise Content Management System (the Online Editor extension v. 5 will be based on TinyMCE)
                                • EZ Webitor CMS - PHP based CMS from Winters Webs
                                • Falt4 CMS - Fast, smart, multilingual and modular LGPL CMS for the User and the Pros
                                • Foswiki - The free and open source enterprise collaboration platform
                                • Frequency - Intuitive, object-based enterprise CMS
                                • ImpressCMS - The ImpressCMS Project : Make a Lasting Impression (GPL v2)
                                • Ingeniux web Content Management System (CMS) - XML-based web content management software offered as a SaaS hosted CMS or an on-premise server.
                                • INMON CMS - PHP / Zend Framework based content managing platform.
                                • IOS (Independant Online System) Highly versatile and extensible system developed by Technology Online in New Zealand. Based entirely on Open source technologies.
                                • iPoint portal - Java based, JSR-168 compliant, open source collaboration portal
                                • JCE - Joomla Content Editor
                                • JCMS - Jalios content management and portal solution
                                • Joomla
                                • Knowledgeroot - Open Source Knowledgebase System with AJAX navigation-tree
                                • Lenya, Apache (TinyMCE integration as of Lenya 1.4)
                                • Lateral Arts CMS System - Designer-Oriented CMS system with extendible modules
                                • Maakum - je eigen site! - CMS developed by Maakum VOF, based in The Netherlands.
                                • Mambo CMS
                                • MemHT Portal
                                • MeshCMS - File-based Java CMS (uses TinyMCE since 2004)
                                • mojoPortal - Open Source ASP.NET CMS
                                • MiaCMS - Open Source CMS.  Default editor is called MOStlyCE which uses TinyMCE.
                                • Midgard CMS - Open Source CMS and Web Application Framework
                                • MMBase
                                • MOA Express
                                • MODx as of release version 0.9.5 MODx uses TinyMCE as its default WYSIWYG editor
                                • Movable Type plugin available from Movalog Plugins
                                • N2 ASP.NET CMS
                                • New Media CMS - New Media CMS built using ColdFusion
                                • MySphere CMS - Blog and CMS created with PHP, Zend Framework and Ajax
                                • OLAT - Java based e-learning system (LMS, LCMS) that use TinyMCE as editor in the folder component.
                                • openEngine
                                • OsirisCMS
                                • Papoo
                                • Pearl - Web based business management, ecommerce and website building
                                • PG-CMS - a CMS especially for schools (not only in German)
                                • PHP-Fusion
                                • PHP-Nuke
                                • PivotX and Pivot - open source blog software that both uses TinyMCE as the Wysiwyg editor.
                                • Plicity
                                • Plone - Open Source Content Management, TinyMCE available as Add-on Product
                                • PostNuke - Open Source Content Management, module scribite! integrates various WYSIWYG editors (also TinyMCE) in postnuke modules.
                                • Press Publisher - Magazine Publishing Software utilizing TinyMCE and MCImageManager.
                                • PrestaShop - Open-source e-commerce software, PrestaShop uses TinyMCE in its back-office in order merchants to personnalize easily their website content.
                                • PrestoSports - Sports information CMS uses TinyMCE for rich, simple, and form editing.
                                • Puzzle Apps CMS
                                • REDAXO
                                • RedSpark CMS - A ZEND Framework based open source application-framework and CMS
                                • Red Tree Systems' CMS - A Search Engine Friendly, high-end CMS system
                                • Renao
                                • RUNetCMS - PHP/MySQL Open Source CMS System
                                • Sefrengo - Open Source Web Content Management, uses TinyMCE for text editing via optional available TinyMCE4SF-extension (see the user-forum)
                                • Self!Service lite CMS - CMS without database, incl. shop, gallery editor, multiadmin, comments for visitors,...
                                • Skeleton™ CMS - Skeleton™ CMS by Hollow Industries uses Tiny MCE for editing i "easy mode".
                                • Soholaunch - Full featured online website builder, included in cPanel.  Uses Tiny MCE for text editing.
                                • SOS Webpages - Simple Open Source Webpage Management System with Tiny MCE for editing text.
                                • SpireMedia™ ESM3 - The SpireMedia™ Enterprise Site Management (ESM) platform uses Tiny MCE as of release 3 in 2008.
                                • Spitfire - This is a extreme user friendly and hight flexible CMS System.
                                • SWiM - Semantic wiki for mathematics, based on IkeWiki, but with custom extensions to Tiny MCE for annotating mathematical knowledge
                                • toolip CMS - ASP based CMS and database management uses tinyMCE for text editing
                                • Tudo - A CMS coded in PHP by ITConnect Scandinavia AB
                                • TYPO3 - Plugin from outraxX
                                • TYPO3 - Extension: tinymce_rte Project Page at TYPO3-forge
                                • TYPOlight - PHP based open source CMS system
                                • umbraco - ASP.NET Open Source CMS System
                                • vinca - vinca cms and newsletter-system
                                • Viviti - A website builder that lets you create a free web space as unique and dynamic as you!
                                • Vivvo CMS - News and Media Publishing Web Content Management System
                                • Vyre UNIFY - Vyre UNIFY Content Management System
                                • W3StudioCMS Ajax free Content Management System
                                • WebGUI - WebGUI CMS
                                • WebPRO Creative
                                • WebStudio Enhanced Content Management System from made.By company in Lithuania
                                • WebYep - shiny tiny web CMS with Dreamweaver, RapidWeaver and Freeway integration.
                                • Wordpress - plugin, WordPress 2.0 now uses TinyMCE as the default WYSIWYG editor.
                                • Xaraya - Version history and  Demo - login
                                • XIMS - Open Source CMS with TinyMCE integrated as default WYSIWYG editor
                                • Xciton - Sitemanagementtool based on xlntcms with TinyMCE integrated as default WYSIWYG editor
                                • XOOPS - Module by ralf57
                                • VirtuelCOM Concept Non open source CMS in PHP. French only for now.
                                • WebPac Software .NET based CMS, email marketer and online collaborative environment. Uses TinyMCE for editing websites and email articles.
                                • Yendo Open Source ASP.NET CMS. Designed for small business and marketing microsites.
                                • ZitePLUS ZitePLUS is an open source French CMS without database, very small but efficient, with groups and users sécurities.
                                • 173. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                  [S]up Level 1

                                  Please keep yourselves away from posting the third part solutions and links in here as it nothing to do with our discussion that is only contains the Adobe's Marketing Teams sales strategy of DW CS4...

                                   

                                  Thank you...

                                  • 174. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                    pavitra2010 Level 1

                                              Thank you so much for this impressive list of alternative solutions to ICE .... If we want to drop ICE because we cannot get our customers to pay a monthly or yearly fee ad libitum, it makes sens to know which others solutions are available ....

                                    Since you seem to be proficent with CMS knowledge, could you please advice the one or two easy to master ....

                                    At least as easy as ICE and with a wysiwyg interface ....??

                                    Some you mentionned, we know from reputation require quite a lot of coding skills ....

                                    • 175. Re: Pay for InContext ???

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                                      • 176. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                        razorxdev Level 1

                                        Human. Thanks.

                                        • 177. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                          Level 1

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                                          • 178. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                            razorxdev Level 1

                                            Human. Thanks.

                                            • 179. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                              Level 1

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                                              • 180. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                pavitra2010 Level 1

                                                C.MJS a écrit :

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                                                Subject: Web Developer Discussion Pay for InContext ???

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                                                • 181. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                  [S]up Level 1

                                                  Is this another way to stop us?

                                                  • 182. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                    dhoviss Level 1

                                                    I USUALLY roll my own systems, using tiny mce.

                                                    When the client cannot afford that then cushy or sureal cms work just fine. I suggest Adobe offer a free option, like the competition, that should quiet the uproar.

                                                     

                                                    =daniel

                                                    • 183. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                      dhoviss Level 1
                                                      • 184. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                        Streetwitch Level 1

                                                        OK....I'm new to all this, but a huge fan of Adobe.  I've been learning to use ICE via the Adobe sites and various bits and pieces via Google and NOWHERE have I seen any mention of having to pay for the service until I hit this forum whilst trying to sort out a bug (the advanced button is greyed out) - not even any mention on Adobe TV!

                                                         

                                                        Really surprised and disappointed that Adobe have not made this more obvious....

                                                        • 185. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                          billybongo1987

                                                          So let me get this straight the reason why my incontext editing is not working anymore is because it's not free anymore?

                                                           

                                                          Anyway this is not acceptable How many people are f*cked now???

                                                           

                                                          You can't explain this to your clients period. Now we have to figure out a way to tell them that they can't edit there site anymore for free in the near future???

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          I only can say one thing to people learn joomla or wordpress it is not that hard and way less expensive even free.

                                                          • 186. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                            Zabeth69 Level 5

                                                            I don't know why your InContext Editing is not working; can't tell from your post. But it was supposed to be in beta through the end of 2010, so I'd check into other reasons for it.

                                                             

                                                            Beth

                                                            • 187. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                              mikenytola

                                                              I can't really say anything that hasn't already been said, but I am yet another developer that did not know this was going to be a paid monthly fee.

                                                               

                                                              Why have features in the software if it will not be free?
                                                              Why did Adobe not just make it a "free" plug-in? At least they would not have duped many people into thinking this was part of the software.
                                                              Is this a trend we are going to continue to see?

                                                               

                                                              Every new feature any Adobe product we have to think to ourselves... will we have to pay for this feature later down the road at an unknown cost? Is this the new model Adobe is going to follow? Buy our product now so you can pay for it's features later?

                                                               

                                                              Yes we have to deal with our clients and tell them about all the costs, but why do we have to be the salesman for your product? Anybody that does freelance work knows that the client will nickel and dime you many times. So not only do we need to sell ourselves and our service, we have to sell an Adobe product as well. Do we get commission every time a client pays for your service? When you get down to it, the cost is going to be put on the developer, the Adobe client, not the customer.

                                                               

                                                              In the end, yes we have a choice to choose another option, but to mislead people into thinking this was going to be a feature of Dreamweaver is just wrong and shady marketing. If you don't plan on a feature being part of the software, DON'T integrate it into the software and keep things separate. It's done by hundreds of companies. Smaller companies can do it but Adobe can't? Come on now, get real.

                                                               

                                                              Thank God I found this discussion as I did not know that it was going to have a fee down the road. Now I have to rethink some sites I have coming up because it's hard enough to sell myself, let alone an Adobe product along with it.
                                                              • 188. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                                Bobxyzzy Level 1

                                                                I guess I was the only one who read the fine print and caught on to the indication that it was currently free - which was an obvious flag it might not continue that way indefinitely.  Must just be my naturally suspicious nature and distrust of vendors.  When I saw that I asked questions that got the same answer we are still essentially seeing - they don't know if or when they will start charging, nor how much it will be if they do.  As a Contribute user I was also flagged by the idea that they would offer a free capability that could displace an existing extra cost product.  I was very interested because the cost structure for Contribute does not meet my particular needs very well (high per seat cost where I need support a number of very low activity level seats), so I have not felt ready to commit to a change from Contribute to InContext.

                                                                 

                                                                As to why InContext is problematic to offer free/bundled into DreamWeaver - is it not true that InContext uses and requires a server at Adobe?  A business model that requires a company to perpetually provide unlimited, ongoing computing services without an on-going revenue stream to support it is not very workable, and if Adobe knows one thing it is how to make money...

                                                                 

                                                                Now, why design a product like that given the issues like we are seeing here?  I suspect because software companies are trying to move from the boom and bust release cycle model to one based on steady, reliable revenue streams.  From their point of view I think that is the basic point of "cloud computing".

                                                                 

                                                                My concern is that I have seen very little indication InContext is doing all that well.  If there is not a sufficient buy-in, and enough of a prospect of eventually coming out ahead economically, I wonder how long it will be before Adobe goes the other way and just drops InContext as another good idea that did not pan out.  Then where would the people who are committed to InContext be?

                                                                • 189. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                                  Zabeth69 Level 5

                                                                  Dunno. I like it pretty well. It has its limitations...editing some Spry frameworks/widgets is problematic...but my clients are happy, so I'm smiling.

                                                                   

                                                                  Beth

                                                                  • 190. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                                    RICH POW

                                                                    I'm sure incontext will be a great product when it is live, but until such time it is unuseable for me without finite prices. Maybe CS5 will shed some light on it's future.

                                                                     

                                                                    Right now I have bought a pro licence with Pagelime and can't rate it highly enough, white lable, features coming on all the time and genuine one to one support the guys are brilliant, The fact that it's white lable means I can sell it as a CMS, incontext can never offer that free or not.

                                                                     

                                                                    Rich

                                                                    • 191. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                                      Zabeth69 Level 5

                                                                      Why do you think it is not live? Works fine for me...

                                                                       

                                                                      Beth

                                                                      • 192. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                                        RICH POW Level 1

                                                                        Should have said I'm in the UK, so apparently not supported yet.

                                                                         

                                                                        Rich

                                                                        • 193. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                                          Zabeth69 Level 5

                                                                          Got it. You'd think they'd roll it out sometime soon...can't stay in Beta forever!

                                                                           

                                                                          Beth

                                                                          • 194. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                                            jselser@selsermedia.com

                                                                            Read  all the threads and just wanted to make a point here. This is all about business. When people say that a client won't pay $10, $20 or whatever a month is because you are not bringing tangible value to the client.  Time is money people.  My time is worth money and so is my clients time.  They want traffic and more business. Show them an ROI. Adobe makes products that make my work easier and they cost money to build. I expect to pay for tools that solve problems because a good tool saves me time or money or both.

                                                                             

                                                                            I want my clients to participate on the creation of content on their sites. ICE can help make that happen. Business owners are usually the subject matter experts on their business. I need to make it easy for them to leverage that knowledge on their sites. The cost of creating content is usually far more than the the monthly cost of ICE or the fixed cost of any other tool per se. It takes time and effort to create and produce the content that makes them stand out, get noticed, and keeps customers, donors, people coming back. 

                                                                             

                                                                            If your not delivering a value to the business then any amount you charge will be contested.  If the site is not making them money then you are not helping them build, grow or sustain their business. Even a non-profit is in the business of raising capital (financial or human) to promote / solve an issue. Show all of them how to leverage the net to accomplish their goals. ICE is a TOOL.  It makes it simpler for clients to safely edit content than most other tools.

                                                                             

                                                                            Even free CMS's are not free. Sure you can download them for FREE and USE them for FREE but your TIME IS NOT FREE. Maintaining server based software takes time and requires resources. What about updates? What if you spend an hour a month updating modules in some CMS to address security issues. Is that at no expense?

                                                                             

                                                                            The nice thing about SAS products is you have support from the vendor and you don't have to maintain it. That saves time. That's why the ICE my clients are starting to use is bundled into Business Catalyst.

                                                                             

                                                                            Stop the making a living thinking. SOLVE PROBLEMS for your customers and you will be rewarded.

                                                                             

                                                                            I will pay for the ICE when they decide to charge for it and I will deliver an even greater value add for my clients when it is the right tool for the job.

                                                                             

                                                                            <!-- end of rant -->

                                                                            • 195. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                                              Gibry30

                                                                              Just thought I'd say....I am in the UK and I am using ICE...works fine for me.

                                                                               

                                                                              I love this discussion...it just goes on and on and on....can't wait to see what actually happens!

                                                                               

                                                                              Ryan.

                                                                              • 196. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                                                Missteach Level 1

                                                                                Hi Gibry,

                                                                                 

                                                                                What hosting company are you using in the UK?

                                                                                 

                                                                                I'd like to give it a try.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Thansk

                                                                                • 197. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                                                  Tommy Logic Level 3

                                                                                  I have several friends in the UK using ICE... Dreamhost seems to be the most flexible solution out there.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I have promocodes if you want to give them a try and get a bunch of money off. THey are listed here: >>  Newest Dreamhost Promo Codes HERE >>

                                                                                  • 198. Re: Pay for InContext ???
                                                                                    Capt Obvious Level 1

                                                                                    www.cfmxhosting.co.uk

                                                                                     

                                                                                    supports coldfusion, flash remoting, flex, etc.

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