Well what can I say.....very disappointed but not surprised!!! This was inevitable!!! Shameful display by a superb organisation!
So where do I go from here? My ICE will continue to work right? And current clients will be fine? (for now!)
So I am not the world best programmmer, I am a designer and therefore simplisity is important...and cost!!
So Cushy, Sureall....learn how to do it myself!!! So much to think about!!
Repeating regions was the only reason I chose ICE, as this made it simple for my clients to add new fully styled (by me) sections, news articles, comments etc!!
CUSHY and SURREAL......if you are following these threads....get Repeating regions sorted and YOU WIN!!!
Shame on you Adobe.
Gibry... have you been paying attention to this thread? PageLime already has repeating regions...and crushes InContext anyway... Cushy and Surreal will never have repeating regions that make any kind of sense because they are form based. So yeah...PageLime should win this round.
Hey PageLime guy, be nice to Gibry. This thread was started over a year ago and has over 200 posts; it's hard to remember of all the suggestions, much less research them all.
"Crush"? "Win this round"? Does the PageLime team moonlight as boxers?
I have to agree that PageLime does win, and does rather trounce the competition. The obvious benefit with Pagelime is that you get to edit the content inline with the rest of the page, so you are actually editing the live page and see it how it will really look. With suureal for example you onlt get to see/edit the area you have made editable in a separate box, so it is the wrong size, you lose the styles and formatting of the page and may have to make several edits to get it to look right.
Hey all, Cory here from Surreal CMS. I just wanted to clarify something:
Cushy and Surreal will never have repeating regions that make any kind of sense because they are form based.
Actually, that's not true at all. Surreal CMS will support repeating regions in the coming months, not to worry. In the meantime, feel free to test out our service. We're pretty confident that your clients will like our interface and some of our new features much better.
Hello. According to their FAQ, it will discontinue early to mid 2011. About one year.
I discovered the FAQ while wondering about a Incontext error message that I was receiving. I did not receive a notice from Adobe.
Was Adobe going to let us know?
Well either way, you get it free for a year until you find another solution.. besides CS5 is about to roll out anyway.. LOL
In Adobe's defense... I think that it was blatently clear to them (thanks greatly to this thread) that none of us would buy this product & it probably makes sense for them to move it into the Business Catalyst package. Just by reading the comments in here, I don't think this was the right business model for the target audience. Catalyst will be a big sell to larger firms.. who will gladly pay for the service. Most of the group here seems to be the individual person or small company.. not the type who likes to spend money.
I don't know about you, but I can't remember Adobe EVER giving me something for free.. I'm not surprised in the least.
Well, I "paid for" inContext! Multiple times!!
This product was advertised as a feature of CS4. It is that simple. I 'bought' it.
In the meantime we have upgraded our developers to CS4 for this reason. We have completely switched over all of our clients who choose CMS in our packages. We have added inContext code to thousands of pages! We have created the connections for our clients and walked them through the somewhat confusing sign up process. We have tech supported each of those clients to help them be proficient with the editor. This is weeks of work at the very least. I have no idea even how to count the hours.
Now, my end reward is an 'advertised' service inside of one of their flagship products which is now yet again going to cost me thousands of dollars to undo! I'm so mad at the moment that I can't even think straight... but Adobe just hit a 'crawl back under your rock' status with me and my hundreds of clients are going to feel the same.
I'm getting sick of Adobe! I just told clients the service was free, now I have to go back and tell them NOT! What's wrong with you guys? If it weren't for us creative professionals you wouldn't even BE in business! Now the new CS5 is out, what a joke! The least you could do is charge one yearly fee with unlimited domains. But five domains for a professional...are you serious? You guys obviously don't know our industry well....take a hint...it's time to get off your high-horse and do your market reaserch again because your missing the boat! WE are the reason you've become succesful and WE can just as easily take that away! I already have friends who have ditched your products, having found alternatives, and are much happier. I'm not too far behind!
This definitely becomes a major headache. I have 25 or 30 sites registered and the notice went out to all of clients as well, who immediately start emailing me with questions about it, etc.
Ugh! Left trying to figure out whether to recode all the pages for a different CMS for free, or start charging them for something that was free.
This is unbelievable. Nowhere on the software package I bought did it say I was going to have to pay for ICE. This is wrong. I'm not a big time designer, I just maintain a few sites, and most of my clients are using ICE, some are non-profits. I can't afford to pay for this, and neither can my clients. This could very well put me out of business.
Thanks a lot, Adobe!
I just found out about the discontinuation of InContext a couple days ago on the forum, and have been investigating other CMS options for the 25 or so clients I have who use ICE. Then *BAM* Adobe sends out notifications to all the users I've set up with it, and I'm bombarded with emails from clients ranging from mildly concerned to totally freaked out.
I had to compose a bulk mail assuring them I'm making other arrangements for their websites (AT MY EXPENSE). I spent a lot of money on CS4. Now it's costing me time I can't really afford to spend.
Adobe has just opened up a HUGE opportunity for another company with a great product to zoom in and steal their market share. Glad I sold my Adobe stock (years ago). I am so unhappy with this company right now! I expect there will be a class action suit. Adobe really screwed up this time.
Adobe never even sent me a notification! The emails just went out to all my clients. Thanks alot, by the way.
Bleh. Meh. I am not impressed with Adobe. I once was a big fan.
I have more thoughts on this.
The 'very' main reason for our upgrading to CS4 was for inContext. It was 'advertised' as a part of the product. Nowhere did I find anything about this being a trial version or anything. If it was meant to be, Adobe has 'deceived' us by hiding this information. I get very frustrated each time I look at their new release as the information provided is scant at best. A class action lawsuit? I certainly hope so as this is going to cost me at least $10,000 to fix and more likely closer to $20,000 in making the now needed changes to our clients' pages.
Someone said that Adobe 'never' gives anything away for free. I beg to differ. From what I have seen, this has been their most successful business model. Can anyone say Acrobat or Flash? Without the 'free' reader and player, the software to create those documents is useless. So, I guess I was ignorant for feeling like inContext was going to be a part of Dreamweaver, a 'selling' point for Dreamweaver and that whatever was needed for inContext was going to equate to something like Acrobat Reader or Flash Player.
I never gave Adobe the permission to contact the clients we have set up under our master account. I certainly hope they did not short sheet us by sending those emails to our clients. We simply need a bit of time for an answer.
I have never complained about the features within inContext. In fact, it is nearly a 'perfect' match for non-savvy web editors should have. We pretty much limit them to text changes. The integration into Dreamweaver was a great feature for our developers, as they were warned about mismatched tags and such... something easier to do as html/xml/css progresses along.
Never did inContext reach outside of it's limited bounds. Something that we have had problems with using other CMS editors. This was the main reason for changing over.
I simply have no idea what Adobe could be thinking? They most certainly must be in serious financial crisis, as doing this to us is the worst customer relations move that has ever had such a devasting effect to my operation.
As I mentioned in my last post, I am so mad that if there is anyway possible, I will simply jump ship. If they do this with one portion of a flagship program, what other technology is to follow. Lie to me once... shame on you... lie to me twice... shame on me.
I will be paying now for Adobe's shutdown of ICE. I'll switch to Surreal or Pagelime and pay $69 a month. It'll cost me many hours of my time, for which I will not be paid. If there's a class action suit, I'm in.
Here's the text of the email(s) Adobe sent to my ICE clients without my permission. I did not receive a copy until my clients began emailing me:
Adobe(R) logo Adobe Systems Incorporated
345 Park Avenue, San Jose, CA 95110-2704 USA
You are receiving this e-mail because you are a registered user of Adobe® InContext Editing. Effective May 5, 2010, changes will be made to the preview of Adobe InContext Editing. Further development in its current state will cease, and the following limitations will be implemented:
• New sites cannot be registered with the service.
• New user registrations will no longer be accepted.
If you are registered as an Administrator, you will still be able to define editable regions, configure site settings, and edit users with sites that have been registered with InContext Editing prior to May 5, 2010. If you are registered as an Editor or Publisher, you will still be able to make and publish edits to previously registered sites. For additional details, please visit our Frequently Asked Questions.
InContext Editing will be discontinued as a standalone service in 2011. It is expected to become a part of Adobe Business Catalyst®, a hosted application for building and managing online businesses that can also import your existing website. We will host a special webinar this month to help you learn more about the transition from InContext Editing to Business Catalyst. For more details and to sign up, click here.
Thank you for being a part of the preview for InContext Editing. We apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your understanding. We believe the integration with Business Catalyst will be beneficial to both you and your clients, combining easy website editing and content maintenance with a robust online business platform.
Adobe Systems Incorporated
quite clealry Adobe have overstepped the mark here, but posting here is not going to help.
I would suggest all those who feel ripped off, who purchased CS4 for ICE, who are going to lose money as a result of having to move form ICE and who have pissed off customers as a result of Adobe contacting them without permission, should pick up the phone and conact Adobe and make an official complaint.
First, Adobe knows what's going on here, though I don't think it's a bad idea to contanct them direct. I emailed a scathing letter to the CEO of HP once, the next day his assistant called me personally and my computer was getting shipped out to be fixed that same day.
Second, If Adobe was smart, they would work up some kind of deal with those of us who've been used as ginnie pig the last two years. Either let us continue using the account for free indefinitely with unlimited domains or charge the yearly fee of $240 with unlimited domains. Anyone who signs up for InContext after fees are implemented should be subject to the change.
I think this situation is deserving of a civil class action suit and should be persued as Adobe needs to realize "False Advertising" is wrong and stupid with a crowed like ours. For me it's not so much they want to charge for the product, I think they have every right to charge for the product. But what they don't have a right to do is give us false preceptions about a product to leer, not only us but also our clients, into buying then slapping us with charges two years later after using us as ginnie pigs for something that was really a beta version but never stated as such. Had I known this in advanced I could have made an exectutive decision as to whether or not I wanted to buy/use the product. But like everyone else here I got sucked into thinking it was an added feature to DWCS4. What's the use in having editable reagions if you don't have the product to use it wth? How much more did we spend on that feature when we purchased the suite? I'm not so sure I want to know....
Finally, if you really want to get back at Adobe, it's simple....don't buy CS5. Adobe revenues are dependent upon us, this very crowed of professional creatives, not the big corporations. They would not survive well without us. So if we really want to teach them a hard lesson, I say boycot CS5 even CS6 if you're really angry! I know I'll be skipping CS5. As for CS6, it will depend on how well Adobe manages themselves, in the meantime I will be looking for alternatives.
Adobe purchased Interakt and quickly dumped KTML, a fine CMS editor - complete with DW extensions. KTML simply stopped working a month ago, due to FireFox upgrades....So you ICE followers are not the only ones scrambling to update CMS around the net. What this shows is that Adobe can and will do what it pleases for the bottom line. While companies that create really cool products are at risk of buyouts and we all suffer.
There is a movement to create a new kind of company that is not purely beholden to their share holders. You can read about it here;
If Adobe was not solely focused on bottom line, and was more focused on providing the kinds of tools (like mobile app development) needed in todays world (or at least not killing them off), and they offered a long lasting relationship with their loyal developers/clients by really providing value added to the CS series (such as support for ICE as a standalone freebe, and better support for browser labs or a free account with adobe connect - all great tools);
Then I would pre-order CS5 in a heartbeat.
This takes me back to the days when Quark was the page layout leader-- and they treated the users badly. They kept big prices and behaved arrogantly, no education pricing for students or teachers. We walked away. It happens. Better products arrive, better models evolve and we go where we get the best for what we need. That's business, especially in a tight economy. Who's going to use a product that will cost us more, make less profit and cost our clients more.
Years ago Adobe pushed ebooks and their application server for ebooks. I made the mistake of pushing it to my clients and then all of a sudden Adobe stopped selling AND serving the ebooks-- and anyone who bought one was stuck for the cost of the book and no ebook! That was an ouch and I was insulted. Adobe does things sometimes that help their immediate bottom line but hurts their customers. I think they look at the number of people they are going to hurt and if that number is small compared to the cost savings, they make a move that hurts existing customers.
I am guessing we are a small group compared to the cost of running ICE as a web service-- and we lose. That's business.
I can picture who is going to buy the BC service. Maybe companies that don't want to hire designers and techs, don't want to manage their own servers or buy those services. They can get a template, buy BC and plug in their content, stores, whatever for cheap. Network Solutions does it, Yahoo does it. So in that scenario, Adobe is not just cutting us out of the ICE product, the are facilitating the demise of our businesses. Then who is going to buy Photoshop and Illustrator-- because BC businesses will be using templates and clipart.
OK so BC is a *segment* of the online business. I should think Adobe would want to support the creatives and techs who buy all their products to keep their business healthy. We want to control every aspect of the design, hosting, data, and delivery.
Last version, we bought the Master Collection. This time... tere is already a Flash issue with Apple and HTML 5, now Dreamweaver changes support of ICE. What's next.
Takes me back... to my favorite image editing program - Photo Styler from Aldus. Guess who eventually purchased that and made it go away?
Not sure how this is useful since it makes no difference now, but I do see a re-occuring theme here.
Purchasing the competition is cheeper than out competing with them.
All the big companies do this, but it is the consumer and the developers that get the short end.
I also believe that it stifles competition and innovation.
So, is anyone planning to go with Business Catalyst? I think it's going to have to be Wordpress for me. Also, would have been nice to have been told by Adobe that something I have spent so much time and money on is being withdrawn with just a couple of weeks warning - what on earth am I supposed to do with sites that are due for signing off in the next few weeks?
I daren't go for Contribute as that will probably get withdrawn too. Anyone got any recommendations?
Why not go for Contribute ....???
If the client is only asking for maintaining himself his website then no need to master the complexity of a CMS ...
+ you don't have to tweak the CSS of the CMS, since you just reuse your Dreamweaver templates ....
Only thing with Contribute is that when you go to its forum :
- Judging by the posts it seems quite buggy .....
- Aggravating factor, many users are reporting problems and asking help from Adobe, but it seems there is very few answers coming
But it might be that it is because they don't worry too much fixing the bugs of Contribute CS3 or 4, since CS5 is out these days .....
It would be nice to have feed-back from some Contribute users on the ease and reliability of the product .....
One big issue on the forum seemed to be that at each upgrade of Contribute, if you choosed to upgrade, then ALL YOUR CUSTOMERS MUST ALSO UPGRADE ( and pay for it !!!!) ....
If you choose to go Wordpress, you will be happy to know that DREAM 5 can now be customised to easily edit the Wordpress templates (which was not that easy for the beginning developpers ....)
See http://www.lynda.com/home/DisplayCourse.aspx?lpk2=59959 (click on the video "Working with CMS frameworks" )
I do recommend investigating the Business Catalyst solution. It has the most follow-on possibilities. I've attended several BC webinars for training...still on a free account...and am quite impressed by the integrated web solutions, including but way beyond merely editing one's website. Several levels of membership for us developers, many possibilities for my clients. Best of all (well, high up on the list, anyway) is that it is not only a hosted service, it is a hosting service, so I can recommend a hosting server with confidence. It's nice to be able to take control or influence over that sometimes dicey arena: "what is your webhost? do they run PHP? no? well, you have to change...let me find one for you... what about ecommerce?"
Contribute was well-loved by my client, as well, until I upgraded and they didn't. Then everything broke. So there's an enforced upgrade cost there, that I wanted to avoid by going to InContext Editing.
Although InContext Editing was always in Beta, it appears to be fully released (Cristinel, correct me if I'm wrong!) on Business Catalyst.
Plus, you don't actually have to set up editable areas to have your complete page (defined areas...like divs) (I'm assuming except the portions protected by being on the template) editable automatically.
You can also set up for your client to edit xml files, etc., if you want, as for slide shows. It's all in how you set up the client's permissions...a great range of possibilities.
Also, would have been nice to have been told by Adobe that something I have spent so much time and money on is being withdrawn with just a couple of weeks warning - what on earth am I supposed to do with sites that are due for signing off in the next few weeks?
Don't panic. As I understand it, the May 2010 date is when Adobe stops accepting new users; our current InContext sites will continue to be editable until (sometime in) 2011. So we've got at least nine months to find a new service. There's another thread in this forum that discusses alternatives. (This thread is no longer relevant.)
The service page on Adobe.com and InContext Editing FAQ states:
InContext Editing will be discontinued as a standalone service in 2011.
This means existing websites will continue to work until that date to give you plenty of lead time to decide on the plan to follow. If you decide to transfer your sites to Business Catalyst, you will not have to recode the pages since InContext Editing has been integrated and the it recognizes the already defined regions.
On the InContext Editing service, the only two features that are going to be disabled in the May update are the new site and user registration. And by user registration we mean the registration as a portal user. Your customers will still be able to add new users to their websites.
I have apprecaited the InContext editing features built into Dreamweaver. I have set up many sites to use ICE. I understood that one day I may have to pay for the service because I read the small print when I signed up.
However, it was NEVER mentioned that in addition to making the service a paid service that I would also have to go through the additional work of changing hosting services for clients set up to use ICE.
That is a big time commitment. Who am I supposed to charge for that? I can't charge the client because I am the one who suggested using the current hosts! And, what if my client does not want to make the change? I will now have to learn a new CMS system, re-setup the site, and reteach my client. Again, I can't really charge my client for that. They already paid me to do it once. So, this will also have to be done at my own expense.
I must also mention how I feel that Adobe has not acknowledged that many of us risk losing credibility with our established clients because as professionals we endorsed the use of ICE and the hosts that we chose for them. I take that very seriously! If not handled correctly, that could increase the losses that we endure because of the changes.
I HOPE that you will consider supporting all of us who have already used ICE for current clients by creating some kind of package- even if we must pay a nominal fee (IMO)- so that those clients can continue to edit their sites on their own servers. It's the right thing to do. Please reward us for the support and loyalty for your products. After all, we now see that we were guinea pigs!
To be honest, I have been a consistent Adobe fan for over 12 years. But, this change that Adobe has been handled quite 'breezily' is HUGE to many of us. I'm looking at least a loss of at least one week's worth of income while I make whatever changes that my clients and I decide on. And, your "sorry for the inconvenience" is a BIG understatement.
On top of losing that income, you want me to buy into the BC platforn with an expense of at least $995?
I am happy wth the sites and CMS options now, and I don't want to spend additional, unbillable time to make changes that the client and I do not need.
Let me, a professional designer, CHOOSE BC because I want to, for the right reasons- because it does seem to have a lot of potential. Please don't force me to spend up to $2000 for services that I have had for the last 2 years for free!
I bet that many of us would be able to see the value of the BC platform much better FOR FUTURE CLIENTS if we weren't so upset about taking care of our current ones that we have entrusted to you through ICE.
I hope that you will reconsider how you hadle those of us in this awkward situation with our clients. If not, I will take account of all of the time spent on making all of the necessary changes for me to get my clients account back to where they are now (which is where they want to be), to research all of the CMS options so that I can choose one that is approporiate for clients who do not want to change, to implement all changes in coding, client time in eduacting them and training them. Who should I send that bill to? Did I hear something about a class-action lawsuit?
This ICE change has created a big mess and has caused a lot of us anxiety as we figure out how to deal with this.
We originally chose your products because we saw the value in them. That's why we suggested to our clients to trust you/your ICE product.
Please value your clients (the design community) like we all value ours,