-
1. Re: Separation problems using CS3 built files in CS4
P Spier Apr 29, 2010 12:42 PM (in response to Arrow'd)Are you really using two black plates? Unless you change it in the prefs the default [Black] swatch always overprints at 100%, so there isn't much reason to go to the trouble of adding a spot plate and setting it to overprint unless you really are using a special spot black ink in addition to the regular K plate.
When you open one of these older files that is giving you trouble in CS4, have you checked the attributes panel to see if the overprint is still active? My bet is that it's being ignored in the RIP.
-
2. Re: Separation problems using CS3 built files in CS4
Arrow'd Apr 29, 2010 5:39 PM (in response to P Spier)We use two black plates to facilitate translating the files into different languages.
So the breakdown is:
- CMYK
- Text Black spot plate (100% black)
- Typesetter Notes (outside the bleed, this plate is never output)
Having a separate text black plate means the CMYK plates never change from one language to another. We only output one plate per language after English.
Attached are example images.
- 01_Acrobat_Seps.png—This is the original CS3 export PDF opened in Acrobat, it separates correctly, the text which will land in the field below the illustration will overprint

- 02_INDD_CS3_Seps.png—This is the original CS3 export PDF placed in CS3, it separates correctly
- 03_INDD_CS4_Seps.png—This is the original CS3 export PDF placed in CS4, it does not separate correctly, the black is knocking out instead of overprinting
- 04_AI_CS4_Seps.png—This is the original CS3 export PDF opened in Illustrator CS4, it does not separate correctly and in the next image we can see why
- 05_AI_CS4_Overprint_Preview.png—Shows the overprint fill box is not checked
- 06_AI_CS3_Overprint_Preview.png—This is the original CS3 export PDF in Illustrator CS3, and the overprint box is checked
I'm also able to open earlier PDFs (CS1) in the same manner and get the same results—it works until CS4 then it all goes pear-shaped.
So somewhere between CS3 and CS4 there was an alteration made regarding how the applications handle the colors and I can't figure out where that may be.
-
4. Re: Separation problems using CS3 built files in CS4
WestBrantGuy Apr 30, 2010 6:03 AM (in response to Arrow'd)Question: Can you open the original CS3 file in CS3 then export it as an interchange file, then work with it in CS4?
What work-flow software are you using? Often the solution can be found there. For example, I use Apogee, I would go Edit>Plan>PDF Render-Trap>Inks>[select the spot black]> uncheck 'automatic'>[set 'colorant type' to 'Transparent'. This will overprint that spot colour.
-
5. Re: Separation problems using CS3 built files in CS4
P Spier Apr 30, 2010 6:28 AM (in response to Arrow'd)This is indeed very puzzling, and you may well be correct that there is something happening in CS4 that didn't happen earlier. I have two questions, though, to help figure out the workflow.
First, how was the PDF made from CS3? Was it made in Illustrator or ID, and what settings were used? I think we need the complete workflow.
Second, if the text was added in ID CS3 origianlly, why aren't you opening the CS3 file rather than placing the PDF?
-
6. Re: Separation problems using CS3 built files in CS4
Daniel Flavin Apr 30, 2010 3:10 PM (in response to Arrow'd)I tried last night, and again today and cannot make this happen. You look to be using a Mac, and there's been quite a lot noted recently about printing to pdf being broken under the current system updates, but Export to pdf being fine.
I have applied everything I could to break ID's spot black plate, exporting to Press Quality, x1a, Hi Quality and Smallest File Size; all respect the spot black overprint. Bear in mind, my doc color space is cmyk, graphics are a mix of rgb and cmyk.
All patches applied, CS3 5.0.4 CS4 6.0.5 (patched today, same results with 6.0.4)
Would like to see screen shots with some of your relevant panels open - Swatches, highlighted text and Attriributes Panels
-
7. Re: Separation problems using CS3 built files in CS4
Arrow'd May 3, 2010 12:01 PM (in response to tman69)The place/import options check box has no effect one way or another.
-
8. Re: Separation problems using CS3 built files in CS4
Arrow'd May 3, 2010 12:23 PM (in response to P Spier)The files were built in ID CS3, exported as EPSs, then converted to PDF using Distiller. This has been the workflow for the past several years.
Initial tests exporting PDFs directly from ID were unsatisfactory.
Remember these older PDFs are being placed into other (CS4) documents such as rulebooks and player's guides.
To enable the designers' access to the cards they are saved as individual PDFs on a central server.
The native ID file, and its approximately 750 links, is archived and removed from the typesetter's machine to save space.
P Spier wrote:
This is indeed very puzzling, and you may well be correct that there is something happening in CS4 that didn't happen earlier. I have two questions, though, to help figure out the workflow.
First, how was the PDF made from CS3? Was it made in Illustrator or ID, and what settings were used? I think we need the complete workflow.
Second, if the text was added in ID CS3 origianlly, why aren't you opening the CS3 file rather than placing the PDF?
-
9. Re: Separation problems using CS3 built files in CS4
Arrow'd May 3, 2010 12:25 PM (in response to Daniel Flavin)I'm currently documenting the entire process for submission to Adobe (thought I would start here in the hopes I could get a more immediate response), I'll post it here as soon as it's compiled.
Daniel Flavin wrote:
I tried last night, and again today and cannot make this happen. You look to be using a Mac, and there's been quite a lot noted recently about printing to pdf being broken under the current system updates, but Export to pdf being fine.
I have applied everything I could to break ID's spot black plate, exporting to Press Quality, x1a, Hi Quality and Smallest File Size; all respect the spot black overprint. Bear in mind, my doc color space is cmyk, graphics are a mix of rgb and cmyk.
All patches applied, CS3 5.0.4 CS4 6.0.5 (patched today, same results with 6.0.4)
Would like to see screen shots with some of your relevant panels open - Swatches, highlighted text and Attriributes Panels
-
10. Re: Separation problems using CS3 built files in CS4
P Spier May 3, 2010 12:49 PM (in response to Arrow'd)What, exactly, was unsatisfactory about exported PDF?
And what eps export distiller settings do you use?
I know you aren't wanting to go backwards here, but if the CS3 files have the text on a separate layer, have you tried placing the pages from the .indd rather than PDF?
-
11. Re: Separation problems using CS3 built files in CS4
Arrow'd May 3, 2010 1:50 PM (in response to P Spier)The direct PDF export degraded some of the Photoshop transparency effects as well as some other effects applied in ID.
I'm compiling the entire workflow right now and will be submitting both here and directly to Adobe ASAP.
P Spier wrote:
What, exactly, was unsatisfactory about exported PDF?
And what eps export distiller settings do you use?
I know you aren't wanting to go backwards here, but if the CS3 files have the text on a separate layer, have you tried placing the pages from the .indd rather than PDF?










