Dated 4/8/2010... indicates Creative Suite 5 will work on a PowerMac G5 running 10.4.11.
Last week I called Adobe about CS5, and that was my first question (about PowerMac G5 support). After ordering some upgrades, I noticed the information online still indicated Intel-support only. Called Adobe back, and was told again that that PowerMac G5 was covered...guy gave me links to check out the system requirements for myself. When I went to the links, they made no mention of PowerMacs. Doh! This time I tried to get ahold of someone in Adobe's tech support, but he seemed to be reading off cue cards rather than basing the conversation on practical experience--cards that indicated Intel-only.
When I called back a fourth time to cancel the CS5 order, that person's info also indicated PowerMac support. What gives? She said her info was dated within the last week, and when she huddled with the tech support people she told me her info was the most accurate. The sales reps were all very nice, and they said we could get a refund if they were in error. However, like Indiana Jones grabbing his fedora before the stone door seals the exit, it (hopefully!) looks like Adobe decided to let the last PowerMacs make it through for one last adventure.
We shall see.
Bah...if you click the link to CS5 info it goes to the CS4 system reqs page, with *another* link to the CS5 system reqs...which does NOT indicate PowerMac G5 support:
So, Adobe's customer service was saying one thing, while their posted information says another.
Are the sales reps making the same link mistake I just did?
Dov and Adobe Team...
Although you speak for Adobe Systems in regard to "not supporting PowerPC based Macintoshes at all", I
would also like to remind you to alert all potential buyers of the new CS5 suite like myself, that you also
do not support Mac OS 10.4.11. That is a travesty as far as I am concerned. I have upgraded all my Adobe
products along the way and now with CS5 I will not be able to unless I get a new machine that I can run
Leopard or Snow Leopard on. I am on a MacPro 2007 machine that is working just fine, but I can not upgrade
to Snow Leopard because of Graphic Card issues...now you folks come along and also rain on the parade
with the lowest OS needed as Leopard 10.5.7. But you and Apple should be reminded how this is not for the
benefit of your customers, but only your bottom line.
I am angry and disappointed that you are disregarding so many Creative Professionals that look forward to
Adobe upgrades that can help their bottom line. Instead you have left me and others out of the loop. Not
everyone is on the latest and greatest OS you know!!!!!
I don't really want to get into a argument, particularly off-topic, but Apple supports about as much backward compatibility as Adobe. Snow Leo is Intel only just like CS5. CS5's suggestion of needing 256 MB of VRAM eliminated plenty of Intel Macs that can run Snow Leopard. So be fair. This guy with a off-beat video card on his Mac Pro knew he was going to work out of the box. The original poster with the Power Mac G5 is deluding himself with a 5 year computer still being relevant.
I could be angry about the fact after being a loyal Adobe customer going
all the way back to Photoshop version 1,1 ...
that you folks send me emails that do not really address my complaint
but characterize me as someone who
justs wants to vent and be pissed off. Yes, I have complained to Apple,
but they are oblivious to their customers
disappointments because they want to sell either new machines or
peripherals. My Intel MacPro is full of high end
Raid hard drives, the maximum of Ram, and all Adobe products. The hang
for me is the ATI Radeon X1900 XT with
512mb of VRAM, that will not function properly in a Snow Leopard
So in order to use Adobe CS5 Design Premium... I have to buy a $400
dollar replacement graphics card to replace one
that is working just fine, buy Snow Leopard OS, and then spend another
$599 to upgrade to CS5...get my point. That's
why I am upset about Adobe's OS requirements for the Creative Suite
Design Premium suite that I so much would like
to own and use...
real good PR on your guys behalf in sending me the following
comments...talk about alienating your customer base...
thanks a lot!
Senior Graphic Imaging Specialist/Designer/Retoucher/Illustrator
30 Years in the business
First point...I do not work for Adobe.
Secondly, that the card doesn't work with Snow Leopard is something to take up with ATI and Apple, not Adobe. Adobe is stuck developing under the guidelines set by Apple. Apple gives no thought to keeping things backward compatible. Why you insist this on Adobe, is still a mystery to me.
You said it best yourself. Apple is oblivious to their customers to the extent that they build operating systems with little to no backward compatibility. Adobe, like all other developers has limited resources. Developing for a dead operating system and a dead hardware architecture is a waste of those resources.
I am not laying all of this at the feet of Adobe...I am just saying that
with the system requirements
that Adobe has laid out, they have shut out plenty of folks like myself,
whose Intel MacPro's are
still extremely viable and capable of running applications like CS5 if
the system requirements still
included OS's that are not that old. Mac OS 10.4.11 is not that
old...and do you consider a 2007
extremely capable Intel MacPro that can run any CS4 Adobe product, and
run it exceptionally well,
as DEAD HARDWARE ARCHITECTURE.
Aren't you so fortunate that you can afford all the latest gadgets and
...and I apologize for mistaking you as an Adobe employee...my initial
comment was indeed sent
to DOV...who is an Adobe employee...so don't get your undies in a knot
I'm not the one with anything in a knot.
As for the hardware I was referring to those with PPC machines. But let's try to look at the facts here.
The fact is that you're about the only one upset here. For the most part the real screaming that occurs on these forums is from the folks who go out and upgrade the O/S the minute that Apple releases it and then get upset to find that older programs don't work correctly. Do you really think Adobe makes these decisions in a vacuum? You can bet that they have a very good idea of who's using what and the decision to drop Tiger support was made knowing that Tiger users made up a very, very small number of users.
It's also likely that anyone running Tiger is not really a cutting edge user who is going to run out and buy CS5.
There's nothing wrong with your machine. It's the video card that's a problem and you wouldn't be the first person to have to replace one, even if it did cost more than most. But if you think $400 is a lot check with the video professionals. Contrary to your claim, 10.4.11 is an old operating system. That's just how it is in the Mac world.
Finally, I have a late 2008 MacBook and two and half year old home built desktop. I'm not made of money and I certainly understand why you don't want buy a new video card, but these are the facts of life in this business. Have you contacted ATI to find out why they haven't put out drivers for Snow Leopard?
Did you do the firmware update for your first gen Mac Pro's ATI Radeon X1900
XT that came out back in 2007? Software Update won't find it.
There was a revision 2 card that came out I think around April of 2008 that didn't have the problems of the first generation and did work fine with Leopard. I think there was a problem with the fan on the first gen. which led to dust accumulation and overheating.
If AppleCare won't replace the card and putting a 3rd party fan/heat sink doesn't cut it, then I'd suggest replacing the card with a faster and better supported card.
I respect your Adobe evangelism Bob, but I am not screaming at
anyone...I am looking for solutions.
Your opinions contain a view of facts as you see them. Just because I am
running Tiger on a MacPro that
does everything I want it to, does not constitute my professional needs
as not being cutting edge.
I am not pursuing cutting edge, I am pursuing the next version of Adobe
products to add to my
arsenal like I have since Adobe was a young and hungry company in it's
early days. I have eagerly
upgraded all my products happily along all those many years...you're a
professional in the community,
so you should know better then making generic statements like that.
I agree that Adobe would not make decisions in a vacuum, but the Tiger
users, albeit small in rank,
are still about 11%. That's a lot of potential customers. If I could use
CS5 right now with my
configuration, I would definitely be running out to buy it...the core of
my complaint and comments
are based on the fact I cannot because of system requirements. I am
equally unhappy with Apple
and Adobe knowing that they are equally unhappy with one another these
days! Who suffers...
the end customer...all I want is to do my work and make a living!
I am trying to stretch my initial investment in a machine full of
Terabyte Raid drives, totally maxed
out Ram, and all the latest software that still runs within a 10.4.11
environment. In these hard
economic times, many people try to find compromises that still work
within a business budget and still
remain professionally viable.
I will probably have to go the new video card, Snow Leopard OS route,
and then purchase CS5 Suite,
with hopes that all works as intended. I think many would agree that
everyday tools are becoming
Like I said, I get it, but nothing is the same as it was. Apple is more like Microsoft than Microsoft is.
I'm also a realist. There's no way you're going to get that software to run on that machine the way it's currently configured. You're wasting energy even worrying about it. Look at this thread. Do you see anyone joining in?
Now do a search for threads for people with complaints about Snow Leopard or Leopard incompatibilities. Those threads are pile on time.
Back when CS3 shipped Adobe dumped the Win 2K users. If your hardware had no XP drivers you had to upgrade or be left behind. Adobe has survived quite nicely because they know their market. And Tiger users, for better or worse, are not the target. I've also yet to see any large scale revolt because of the dropping of PPC support.
If you're in the U.S. check Newegg. They have great prices on computer parts and you might just find a video card within your budget.
Thanks for your advice Brad. Yes, I did apply the firmware update back
when it came out. My configuration
is as up to date as it possibly can be within the now Apple
unsupported OS 10.4.11. As you may or may
not know, the choices for graphic cards in my particular MacPro are
extremely slim. Apple's built in "end
of the road" mindset to promote new sales is exasperating. I will
probably go with the Radeon 4870 upgrade
kit at around $400 to replace a perfectly working card I have already,
then Snow Leopard, and then CS5
Design Premium suite.
I've got the Radeon HD 4870 card (512 MB VRAM) in my 2009 Mac Pro and Snow Leo seems happy with it.
It was the best value in custom build-to-order upgrades at the time.
Apple sells it but I don't think it's officially designed to work with your 2006 model.
The discussions online seem to state that it will in fact work there in the MacPro 1,1 first gen models. There will be a compromise in performance lacking PCI 2.0 slots but it should go. The power cables are a bit hidden by the fans. Read these comments
By the way, my RAID is external with a HighPoint Rocket RAID 3522 RAID 6 card.
Since you directly addressed me and Adobe, some thoughts ...
I fully understand your disappointment in Adobe's not supporting the version of MacOS you have on your system with the CS5 software. If it makes you feel any better, I personally will need to upgrade the MacBook Pro on my desktop to MacOS 10.6.x from MacOS 10.4.x; I never upgraded the OS because I never had reason to do so. For what I was using that Mac for, there was nothing new or compelling in 10.5 or 10.6 that made it worth my time and effort to do a clean MacOS install. Hopefully, I will not have problems doing that OS upgrade prior to my installation of CS5 software. And I'm not the only one within Adobe who has this problem.
Then why aren't we supporting older MacOS versions? Ideally we would but there are practical considerations that prevent that, whether you or I like those considerations or not.
(1) If we support a particular OS configuration, it means that we must fully test the products under that environment. We cannot simply assume that they will work. If we didn't put an OS limitation on the product and didn't do due dilligence in testing in the older OS environments and there were problems, would you be satisfied? I doubt it and wouldn't blame you for being even more upset with Adobe. The cost of fulling testing on an older OS version used by a very small minority of our target market is no less than the cost of testing under the most current OS release.
(2) Although Apple makes their OS releases look like "dot releases" (i.e., 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, etc.), there are many more very major differences and incompatibilities between these "dot releases" than there are between different major versions of Windows during the same time period (i.e., Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Windows 7), at least from the programmers' point of view.
(3) Building upon (2) above, the fact is that MacOS development over the years has been much more about neat and cool, cool and neatthan upwards application compatibility. Traditionally and historically, the supreme requirement of OS developers is to maintain upwards application compatibility. In other words, OS release n+1 should be able to run all applications that ran under OS release n with no programming changes and with the same results. New OS features should not break old ones. For the most part, Windows has been fairly successful in this arena with relatively few problems, most of which had to do with closing what ended up being unintended security holes. Only now in 64-bit Windows versions are ancient 16-bit applications finally obsolete. This is not the case with MacOS X. With each of the new "dot releases" (the things with the cat names), some existing APIs (Application Program Interfaces) are either deprecated (made obsolete) or broken and actually replaced with different APIs. Forgetting the cost of reprogramming to meet the new API specifications (which is quite considerable for large programs such the CS5 applications), the cost of accommodating (programming and testing for) multiple generations of APIs and taking different software code paths based on OS versions is staggering, adding tremendously to the program complexity and even possibly resulting in certain program features not being available depending upon the OS version.
Bottom line is that given how Apple develops, tests, and releases OS versions, Adobe needs to make prudent decisions as to what OS versions it can reasonably simultaneously support while maintaining some reasonable level of software functionality, performance, and quality.
Having read the full thread of the responses here, it would appear that the blocker to allowing you to upgrade the OS to a more current version that is supported by CS5 is associated with upward OS software compatibility and how it affects a video card's driver. Unfortunately, I suspect that the video card's manufacturer also got stung with OS upward compatibility issues and had to make decisions in terms of what to continue developing and supporting.
This certainly isn't great news for you and it does mean that one way or another you will need to upgrade more than one component to move forward, but I did want to address your question in as straightforward and honest a manner as I could.
Thanks Mr. Isaacs, for your concise post. Although, I don't feel any less pain knowing that you and others at Adobe must also go through major hardware and/or OS upgrades.
Superior programing is what Adobe Systems is suppose to be about. One assumes that is what lead the company to be the 400 pound gorilla and industry leader. Endusers pay plenty for Adobe products and are largely involved in testing new releases.
I take to task, Adobe, for releasing a product which is not backward compatible with very functional and productive hardware. The days of a three to five year old computer being irrelevant are in the past. At this studio we have two G5's and three G4's which run CS3 and CS4 apps just great.
It's not an Apple issue, of not being able to use the latest Adobe programs. Apple has built superior hardware that last for years and years. And (previously) without any compelling reason to keep up with the latest flashy-cat OS, our G4 and G5 solid Mac towers are still snappy and constructive.
Adobe is limiting its user base with this upgrade. Certainly, I am not the only one who won't be compelled to throw out all their workstations and replace them with Intel boxes for the luxury of paying Adobe for another upgrade.
Thanks for all the great products through the years. No thanks for CS5. (sincerely!)
We do understand your concerns quite clearly and certainly thank you for use of our products over the years. Your systems running CS3 and CS4 will still run that software quite well and please continue to enjoy using it! (The existing software doesn't "go bad" simply because we release a new version.)
That having been said, it is virtually impossible for us to produce a single set of executable binaries that will execute not only on each of the MacOS X releases including the latest, but also be a "universal binary" that supports both Intel and PowerPC processors. There are just too many combinations and permutations of possibilities that we would need to develop and test for and even then there would be too many compromises that we would need to make for the software to run at all. It would almost require us to have two separate product versions for the Macintosh, one for legacy hardware and OS versions and the other for the most recent hardware and OS versions - and these would have subtle differences in the way they would work due to their different environments (for which I would guarantee, the Mac Fanboys would flame us mercilessly). As it is, producing the Macintosh releases of our software is no picnic due to the ever-changing whims of St. Steve of Cupertino and his staff; requiring two versions of each Macintosh release is regrettably simply not economically feasible. (The reason why the Windows CS5 version continues to support hardware up to ten years old and Windows versions over seven years old, i.e., Windows XP, is that hardware architecture and OS internals have maintained upwards compatibility over the years. It is not that we are favoring Windows users in any way, shape, or form.) If you were in our shoes and got to see directly what the detailed issues were, you might understand our situation just a bit better.
Nonetheless, when you eventually need to replace your current gear, we hope you will be willing to try whatever is the current CS software version.
PS: For what it's worth and from what we've seen, computers from Dell, Lenovo, HP, etc. are no less "superior" than the Macintoshes. We know of plenty of older configurations of those systems still kicking around without a problem. This isn't a "platform" issue in any way!
That is possible. In fact with the current trend, I'd expect CS7 to need 4 cores. By then that would be like 2 cores now. Modest and kind of lame for professionals. Mac Pros now have 4 or 8 cores, multi-threaded (acting like 8 or 16) and the next gen this year will have more. Consider CS6 to be 18 months away if Adobe still makes software for Macs by then. By then Mac Pros will use 8 core chips, one or two of them, for 16 or 32 real cores, pretending via multithreading to be 32 or 64 cores. By then RAM support would likely be 8GB at minimum and 16GB more healthy for desktop publishers.
Thanks you for answering my question so fast. What a BUMMER DUDE!! I can't believe they did that.
I do hear that Apple and Adobe are fighting out these days but the only person that pays for it are their loyal
costumers. I don't have enough money to buy a very expensive brand new computer. I have children
and a starving designer that was laid off of an ad agency because of the damn economy.
They should of thought this out before they put out CS5 and thinking about how bad the economy is
for people who really know how to use MACS and use them for a LIVING. To be able to pay thier
bills and feed our children. I have no job and freelancing here and there for money. Now they
do this to use WTF!!
This really angers me!!! I guess I am stuck with CS4 till the economy gets better or hope my
GREAT GREAT RICH Aunt dies and leaves me some money to buy a new computer. But
not even that she does not like me. So I am screwed.
Thank you Apple and thank you Adobe.
You forgot about the poor again.
Because MACS are EXPENSIVE, PC's are CHEAP! You can replace a NEW PC for a very cheap price.
Compare that to a brand new MAC. A few years ago I spent over $2,000.00 for my Quad G5 Tower.
I don't have $2,000.00 to spend every few years. I am not about to go PC so that's why we are at
the mercy of Apple and Adobe fighting!! It's all politics just like the fight over FLASH on iPad.
They could of made CS5 for older computers just like they did for CS4. Give me a break!!!
We are talking half the industry has NON intel processor MACS.
Read Dov's response. This has NOTHING at all to do with the Flash fight.
In fact, Adobe announce EOL for PPC support about a year ago and I can assure you, if half of Adobe's Mac users were still on PPC there would be a lot more people in here screaming.
Also keep in mind that Apple has killed PPC support also. Snow Leopard won't install on anything but Intel. These are the facts. Either buy a new machine (Windows or Mac) or stay with CS4.
Where did you get those stats that half the industry has non intel processors? Because I have never heard of anything close to that.
Also, This wouldn't be an issue if Apple didn't switch to Intel. The main computer technology changed, and as a consequence, so does the software. Also, like I said, they would have to switch over to an intel only software anyway, and Adobe is correct in trying to be forward thinkers about this. They need to support future users more than past users 3 years and older. Adobe would really be SOL if Apple release 10.8 and CS5 didn't work on it. They had enough trouble with CS4 and that crap, I highly doubt they want to deal with it again this go around.