Panasonic TM700 1080/60p 28mbps files

[ruzun]

The newest panasonic camcorder, the TM700 records video at 1080/60p in an MPEG-4 format.  Can CS5 import these files, and if so, what would the logical output format be?  720/60p perhaps, or can you output 1920x1080/60hz progressive?  I believe the files have an MTS extension but since AVCHD doesn't allow 60p it's a sort of non-standard format.

According to camcorderinfo.com few editors will accept the Panasonic files, but the quality of the footage is significantly better than the cameras 1920x1080/60i AVCHD mode.

I'm wondering if you could include clips from this camcorder in a CS5 project, and if so what output resolution/framerate would make the most sense (for computer playback I imagine, I don't think Blu-Ray or AVCHD discs support 1080/60p data).

Seems like a great new camera feature, but it's not clear to me how you would distribute the final edited file in such a way as to take advantage of the 60hz progressive nature of the original footage.

[Harm_Millaard]

CS5 can easily import and edit these files, in contrast to the Panasonic DMR-BS 850 from the same company, that can't handle this material.

As for export, your choices are limited, because of the non-standard format.

[Royhessey]

I am thinking of buying this Camera

and note your discussions. What export options would be available

.

I am using CS4

Thanks

[webguy1229]

What about rendering the video keeping the quality into flv for placing on a web page so it can stream from the server?  I am familar with the encoder with macromedia version 8 but the new encoder for video that comes with cs5 does not render some files that can even play after being rendered into an flv.  What is that all about?

I found myself in this forum because I am purchasing the hdc tm700 and want to be able to render high quality video for streaming online in a flash video player.  Is that even possible?  Any tutorials on how to do that with CS5 would be great.  I think I have to visit lynda.com to see what they say.

Thanks

[Quicskate]

I have that camera and using the original .MTS files from the camera 1080 60p, I could only edit and render them in After Effects, Sony Vegas Pro 9 and 10.

I could not find a way in Premier to keep it 60p. And no, BluRay doesn't support 1080 60p yet, but I can render as MP4, WMV and MOV at 1080 60p and they play fine on an i7. Your on a PC right? If your on a mac, I don't believe you can work and render the 1080 60p at all, only 30.

                                                                                                                                               Danny Hays, Universal Orlando Show Systems dept.

[Harm_Millaard]

I have not encountered any problem editing that material with PR.

[Gio_Willis]

I have recently updated to CS5 master collection because I had the same problem with 1080 50p footage shot by HDC-sd700 or TM700.

I was going mad by transcoding all the material in ProRes 422 HD or other suitable formats for final Cut Pro. I used ClipWarp or Aquafadas Videopier HD. I luckily solved this problem natively with Premiere Pro CS5 and Encore CS5. Here I could edit in realtime all the 1080 50p footage ,do the soundtrack ,work in PS an AE and have the timeline updated in Premiere. The final time to prepare the Blu Ray disc was very fast too. Much faster than compressor. I am sure that you won't have any problems with 60p footage too. When you export to Blu Ray you can choose 1080 30p or 60p and the desired bitrate in encore directly. I saw no difference and no loss quality from my blu ray disc to my camera footage via HDMI.

[ruzun]

You can't choose 1080/60p in the H.264 Blu-Ray section, only the H.264 section.  I don't think blue ray supports 1080/60p regardless, it's not in the spec.  Just 1080/24p and 1080/60i I believe, and perhaps 1080/30p.

When you choose just regular H.264 output you can make a .mp4 files that are 1920x1080/60p but I think you would have to play them back as computer files, you couldn't burn those to a Blu-Ray format disc without transcoding them to some blu-ray compatible frame rate/format.

[Gio_Willis]

Yes you are right . It is 1080/25 or 24p or 30p for US standards. Maybe it's a matter of compatibility with blu ray players.

[ruzun]

I can create 1080/60p H.264 .mp4 files using CS5, but I can't find anything that plays them well.  My PC doesn't seem to, the file "skips" a lot.  I tried to play them on a PS3 but they seem to playback at half speed, the sound is normal but the video portion plays back in slow motion.

I'm not sure you can export 1080/60p in any format that anyone could play correctly.  You can create 1080/30p files from your 1080/60p source but I'm not sure that would look any better than 1080/30p from 1080/30p or 1080/60i sources.

You can also create 1080/60i output from the 1080/60p source but I'm not sure you're better off than if you just shot in 1080/60i to begin with.

You can create 720/60p files and those would have the fewest artifacts I imagine, and be far more compatible across the board I believe.  Perhaps I will try that option next and see if that works out better, compatibility wise.

[Gio_Willis]

After some tests I think the best solution for delivery is to export on Blu Ray disc , I am using H.264 1080/25p at maximum quality. I can play mp4 1080/50p on my mac without any problems and I honestly cannot tell the difference betweeen the Blu Ray disc and the mp4. I think that the output to Blu Ray has some limitations due to compatibiltiy issuses. Films are usually 1080 24p-

[Harm_Millaard]

After some tests I think the best solution for delivery is to export on Blu Ray disc , I am using H.264 1080/25p at maximum quality.

Which is not supported on BR, thanks to Sony. Only 24p, but no 25p. For PAL countries only 25i or 24p.

[ruzun]

Does anyone know for certain what frame rates/formats are officially support for Blu-Ray discs?

I think it's just 1080/60i, and 1080/24p and 1080/50i.  Can you put 720/60p or 720/50p files on a blu-ray disc and have players recognize them and play them correctly?

I don't think 1080/30p is even a legal frame rate format for official Blu-ray discs.

[Jeff Bellune]

Read here:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/421178?tstart=0

-Jeff

[ruzun]

Thanks for the link, that clears things up a lot.  If I were shooting 1080/60p I would be sorely tempted to output the project as 720/60p then.  I think overall that would give the fewest artifacts and cleanest output.  If I weren't concerned with motion etc, I might just shoot 1080/60i and then output it at 1080/60i.

[AANNBBAA]

Just some pointers for owners of Panasonic's new top consumer camcorders.

For playback on a computer, having DivX installed and using Windows Media Player should give you some good results. That goes for almost any 1080 50p or 60p codec. As for the PS3, it plays back native files flawlessly as long as you don't have any picture adjustments enabled. The PS3 will even playback edited 1080 60p Microsoft VC-1 files. Now as far as H.264 files from Main Concepts, disable all of the PS3's picture adjustments and tell us if you notice the playback quality getting improved. Hopefully Premiere will add an export to M2T in the future.

I'm having some exporting issues with CS4 at the moment. When I tried to export to 1080 60p using MPEG2 as the codec, I'm told that my settings are wrong. Anyone knows the exact settings I should be using?. When exporting to H,264 using Main Concepts, everything is fine. How do I get an option to export to VC-1?

I do plan on upgrading Production Premium to CS5 possibly when I get my next GI Bill payment.

I do not own the TM700 by the way (I wish I did!), I'm at least trying to gain some knowledge so that I can possibly help people.

[hfukui01]

I just imported MTS files from Panasonic TM700 on Premiere CS5 to edit. Even though I had to convert a different format before import on Final Cut to edit 1080/60p, I did not need to do that for Premiere. However, I could not import the MTS files as 60 or 59 fps. They automatically became 29 fps.

How did you guys make them like high fps? Also Could you tell me the best sequence setting for 1080/60p? I want to edit as good quality as possible.

Thank you!!

[Harm_Millaard]

I only tried it with a single clip given to me, that I imported and it shows up as 50 fps, which is what is expected in PAL country. Plays and edits without problems in a HDV 1080i-25 sequence.

[AANNBBAA]

Here's what I wrote elsewhere:

In Premiere you have to set it up manually since theirs no preset with the settings already set for you.

In the "New Sequence" Box click on "General"

Under "Editing Mode" choose Desktop

Under "Timebase" choose 59.94

Under "Frame Size" put 1920x1080 Under "Fields" choose "No Fields" (since it's a progressive file)

After those steps, you hit OK, and theirs your 59.94p timeline.

If you want to output back to 1080 60p in Main Concepts H.264, you must first choose level 4.2.

Those steps are for CS4 and I'm assuming it's not that different from CS5.

[Harm_Millaard]

No, it is different. You just drag the clip to the new item icon in the project panel and a new sequence is automatically created with the correct settings.

[ruzun]

I've experimented with 1080/60p output quite a bit now.  I can't find ANYTHING that will play those files back properly except in WMV format.  WMV 1080/60p files are almost useless since they are limited to 8-10 mbps encode rate, meaning tons of artifacting.

I have a very fast PC, and it cannot playback the MP4 files without missing a lot of frames.  This is using Windows Media Player, Nero, and VLC.  Perhaps Splash by Mirillis would work but I don't want to install it on this machine.

The PS3, regardless of settings, will not playback 1080/60p files properly.  It plays the video in slow motion, half speed, so the audio finishes in the correct time while the video continues to play long after.

Playing back WMV files on the PS3 works but, again so much artifacting due to the low bitrate there's no point.

The best option I've found that preserves the great motion characteristics of 1080p is to create a 1080/60p project and then output the final file in 720/60p format.  EVERYTHING plays 720/60p files back fine, PS3, Blu-Ray, all PC's with all players etc.

That's the best way to preserve the advantages of 1080/60p while maintaining compatibility with at least some playback devices.

-Roger

[AANNBBAA]

On most people's PS3's, theirs no problems at all playing back the native 1080 60p files from the TM700 although some formats like Main Concepts H.264 I believe, may have issues.

If you can output to VC-1, you can have a bit rate much higher than 10Mbps and it'll look very good on a PS3 or a computer. I've downloaded a file close to 18Mbps from a user who edited a bunch of 1080 50p clips together. I'm not sure how high the bit rate can go.

One user claims to have exported to MPEG2 at 1080 60p using another editor and hopefully I'll be able to do that with Premiere CS4 and see how's the playback quality on the PS3 is. Having a bite rate of aboutt 40Mbps or a little higher should gaive you a quality close to the original files.

[ruzun]

I have an original PS3, with the 60 GB hard drive.  Perhaps later ones could play back these files better, but I have the latest firmware updates etc and I've not noticed any differences before.

I am using Premiere Pro CS5 to output these files.  I know the original MTS files UNEDITED playback fine, I am trying to find an output file that anything else can play smoothly.

Under the windows media option there is no selector for anything that generates output greater than 10mpbs.  What options are you using in the export setting of CS5 to output 1080/60p files that play back smoothly on a PC using Windows media player or Quicktime, and on a PS3?

I am using MAINCONCEPT H.264 to create .mp4 files, which do NOT play back on anything well, and the WIndows Media Option to output 1080/60p files that do playback OK but are limited to 10 mpbs in the export settings.

What settings can I use to get > 10mpbs from a Windows Media file in CS5?  Or what export settings are you using to create fairly compatible 1080/60p files that have no significant artifacts?

-Roger Uzun

[AANNBBAA]

I'm trying to figure some of those things out myself which is why I'm trying to see if anybody can help out with MPEG2 export and the exporting to VC-1 which allows bit rates higher than 10Mbps. I'm certain I have to download a program in order to export to VC-1 using Premiere.

[ddhir]

I bought the TM700 and the PS3 250GB (Sony shipped with the latest firmware - for 3D video playback) last week and am looking for advice on which software I should buy for editing the 1080 60p video, and how best to copy to blu-ray in 1080 60p ?

Appreciate if you can provide guidance and ideally some step-by-step instructions.