17 Replies Latest reply: May 27, 2010 11:52 PM by craig cheatham RSS

    Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)

    craig cheatham Community Member

      I'm frustrated by some behaviors of Vector Masks. I'm asking the forum about this because I'm curious how many others have experienced these issues

       

      • When I'm working on a layer that has a VM, (i.e. when that layer is active), it is IMPOSSIBLE to load any other path as a selection.

      For example: I've made a layer that has both a Layer Mask and a VM. I need to load some other paths as selections in order to further modify the Layer Mask. With the LM active, I Cmnd Click on another path in the Path Palette, but it is the VM of that layer that gets loaded as a selection. The VM seems to override all other paths. The only work around is to click to another layer, load a path as a selection, and then click back to the LM of the layer with the VM.

       

      • If I click on a layer with a Vector Mask the Vector Mask then becomes active (lines around it). This occurs even when clicking the layer, NOT the Layer Mask or the Vector Mask (VM). Even with the VM inactive, mousing over it in the layer palette makes the VM path appear, briefly. Having the path pop into visibility is distracting when I'm trying to look at something else.

       

      Everyone in our studio experiences this behavior.

      What makes VM paths so dominant? Is there a pref somewhere that controls this? Is this an Open GL glitch? Is this a feature that I am using incorrectly? Or is this a documented bug?

       

      (Because someone will ask, "Why have both layer mask and vector mask on one layer?"

      I have both LM and VM because it gives me flexibility in editing, for instance I can have the LM hard edged, and the VM feather 10 pxl so it is easy to create a mask effect that has different qualities of edge blur within it).

       

      Thanks in advance for anyone's input.

       

      Craig

       

      Photoshop CS4 Extended (vers. 11)

      OS X 10.5.5

      2x2.66 Dual Cor Intel Xeon

      8GB memory

        • 1. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
          c.pfaffenbichler Community Member
          • When I'm working on a layer that has a VM, (i.e. when that layer is active), it is IMPOSSIBLE to load any other path as a selection.

          I have no problems loading selections from other paths (CS4 on OSX 10.5.8) and I can’t remember having read about such a problem yet.

          Maybe you should try trashing the prefs, possibly update your system, etc.

          • 2. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
            craig cheatham Community Member

            I have trashed PS prefs several times and still experience this behavior. I also run Tiger Cache Cleaner to fix permissions, run Chron Scripts, and clear system cache once a week.

            Are you sure you have the same conditions – a layer with both alpha channel mask and vector mask? Every time I have a layer selected with both LM and VM when I try to load another path as a selection from the path palette, whichever path I select, only the Vector Mask is loaded as a selection. Very anoying!

             

            Craig

            • 3. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
              c.pfaffenbichler Community Member

              Layer with Mask and Vector Mask selected, command-clicking Path-symbol in the Path Panel loads that Path as a Selection.

              • 4. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                charles badland Community Member

                I don't have any problem either loading a second path as a selection on a layer with both a Layer Mask and Vector Mask. If your VM has a "focus ring" around it (showing its path) just click once on the VM, this should take the focus off the VM and you won't see its path. Now you should be able to draw a path on that layer (with the focus ring on either the Layer or the Layer Mask) and load as a selection. (Workflow may make a difference... after I've drawn my second path, I just control+click to get a contextual menu and choose Make Selection.)

                 

                The VM path appearing when you curse over the VM is, I believe, a feature.

                • 5. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                  craig cheatham Community Member

                  Charles,

                  Our slightly different approaches in the PS interface make a difference. When I follow your routine, i.e. when I RightClick on the Path icon in the Paths Palette I get the contextual menu and I can choose to load a path as a selection. I do that and it opens a dialog box for the parameters of the selection (blur amount etc.) and then it does make that path into a selection.

                  However, for many years I have Command clicked on a path to load it as a selection. Currently, on all the systems in our studio, this method fails. No matter which path in the Path Palette I Command click on, the Vector Mask is the only path that will load.

                   

                  Craig

                  • 6. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                    craig cheatham Community Member

                    As for the suggestion that maybe I should update my system, I'm not exactly in the dark ages here.

                    It seems prudent to wait a while more before upgrading to Snow Leopard and CS5. I'm reading in other threads about problems related to Cocoa protocols and how CS5 implements those. I think both the OS and CS5 can benefit from incremental upgrades.

                     

                    Meantime, I can't believe our shop is the only environment in which Photoshop demonstrates this behavior.

                     

                    Craig

                    • 7. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                      Niles Ridgeman Community Member

                      Sorry man, I don’t get any of the behaviour you are seeing.

                      I "command click” on any of the paths, in either the layers pallet or the paths pallet and get that selection regardless of what I have selected.

                      CS4 and CS5.

                       

                      If it’s happening on all the machines at the same shop you need too look for a common cause. A plugin maybe? Just an educated guess mind you.

                       

                       

                      • 8. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                        gingeralenz Community Member

                        Always use pixel masks myself, whats your reasoning for using vector masks out of interest?

                        • 9. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                          c.pfaffenbichler Community Member
                          As for the suggestion that maybe I should update my system, I'm not exactly in the dark ages here.

                          In the original post you claim to work with OSX 10.5.5, so you seem to be not exactly up to date – and I’m not talking Snow Leopard.

                           

                          Ginger:

                          Always use pixel masks myself, whats your reasoning for using vector masks out of interest?

                          For one thing (unfeathered) vector masks can be maintained as vector content in pdfs and eps.

                          Moreover in CS4 one has the option to use the Masks Panel to feather vector masks, so if the same kind of bluriness applies to the whole of a mask vectors provide some advantages in editability in my opinion.

                          • 10. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                            gingeralenz Community Member

                            Yeah theres lots of different ways of doing things in photoshop, must say i find other ways of clear cutting easier than using the pen tool.

                            • 11. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                              c.pfaffenbichler Community Member

                              Well, in my opinion paths maintain better editability for sharp masking.

                              • 12. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                                c.pfaffenbichler Community Member

                                Dang … I finally observed the behaviour, too! (Though without the presence of a pixel mask.)

                                Curiously it is not consistent within even the File – with one Vector Masked Layer I cannot load other Paths as selections, with another I can.

                                 

                                When dragging the Layer into another File it maintains the behaviour … alt-dragging the mask onto another Layer also transfers it.

                                Copying the Path, deleting the Vector Mask, pasting the Path and applying it as a Layer Mask gets rid of the problem.

                                 

                                So somehow it seems to be a property of the Vector Mask itself, not the path or the layer.

                                I could not recreate the effect though since happening upon it accidentally.

                                • 13. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                                  c.pfaffenbichler Community Member

                                  Well, I seem to have found a cause for my file at least:

                                  The Vector Mask that causes other Paths not to load as a Selection has a Feather applied in the Masks Panel.

                                  If I set that to 0 it ceases to exhibit this behaviour.

                                  • 14. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                                    craig cheatham Community Member

                                    c.-

                                    I'll have to check but I don't think all our paths with this issue have feather applied, although that IS the routine we have been gradually moving to. But that is an interesting catch. I'll check it out.

                                     

                                    Craig

                                    • 15. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                                      Niles Ridgeman Community Member

                                      Ah - it is the feathering that causes it!

                                      When I turn on feathering I get the described behaviour.

                                       

                                      I declare it a bug!

                                       

                                      B.T.W. Vector masks can be hugely useful — edibility, clean edges and integration with illustrator.

                                       

                                      Small for Email.jpg

                                      • 16. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                                        c.pfaffenbichler Community Member

                                        I declare it a bug!

                                         

                                        Well, I can’t disagree there.

                                        I think some Adobe person made a statement sometime to the effect that introducing a new feature always means risking messing up existing ones … that appears to apply here: the Masks Panel seems to somehow interfere with the Paths Panel.

                                         

                                        Unfortunately at this point in Photoshop CS4’s product cycle I doubt it will be remedied for (if it is consistent and not dependent on some coincidental factors on our respective set-ups).

                                         

                                        As for CS5: I can’t test if the problem also occurs there yet.

                                        Maybe someone who has CS5 installed can try and let us know.

                                        • 17. Re: Vector Mask - Arrgh! (Bug or Feature?)
                                          craig cheatham Community Member

                                          Ginger,

                                          Using paths is an extremely powerful function in Photoshop and Illustrator. If you intend to do high-end work in either program learning the path tool is fundamental. It gives you the ability to create very smooth and graceful shapes. Often I find that I can create a path  on an area of a photo that is much cleaner than the shape captured in the photograph of a product. Manufacturing runs, especially preliminary runs, have defects in the mold/process that when photographed at high resolution appear objectionable. Using the Pen Tool I will draw a better shape, the shape intended by the product designer, and use that mask to clean up manufacturing errors. Since these images are used in high-end display images, the cleaned-up image is acceptable to the client whent the straight photo would not be.

                                          The Lasso tool is defintitely a "go to" option, but there is no substitute for the Pen Tool in making perfect selections. They can be converted into layer masks. They can have feathering applied. I often have layers with BOTH Layer Masks and Vector Masks because of the variable feathering that gives me. I can only suggest that the Pen Tool is a must-have in any Photoshop artist's tool-kit.

                                           

                                          Craig