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1. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Victoria_Bampton Jun 8, 2010 5:29 AM (in response to dpick2)There isn't an official standard for writing lens metadata, so sometimes LR doesn't know which lens was used. LR will only automatically select profiles when it's pretty sure.
If your lens is in the pop-up menus below, you can select it and then choose 'Save New Camera Lens Default' from the Setup pop-up above, so it'll automatically be selected in future.
If the lens isn't there yet, you can wait for a profile to be built for that lens (it's early days!), use the manual controls to adjust it yourself, or use the Lens Profile Creator to build your own profile. If you have CS5, you can also search online to see if anyone else has profiled that lens yet.
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2. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
MadManChan2000 Jun 8, 2010 5:31 AM (in response to Victoria_Bampton)Metadata for identifying a lens is starting to become standardized
with the recent release of EXIF 2.3. Hopefully this will simplify
things going forward.
Eric
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3. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
MadManChan2000 Jun 8, 2010 5:38 AM (in response to dpick2)As indicated in Tom's notes, we have profiled a handful of lenses so
far and plan to expand the set with time. I am not going to get into a
full discussion of the prioriies and tradeoffs involved, but suffice
it to say that while the 100 macro and its new IS variant are popular,
they are also not the lenses most in need of help, so to speak.
Eric
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4. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
loonsailor Jun 8, 2010 7:26 AM (in response to MadManChan2000)The automatic selection is working a bit oddly for me. When I turn on lens corrections, if the lens is a Nikon it fills in all the data automatically. If it's my Sigma 10-20, it leaves all the data blank until I select "sigma" from the manufacturer pull-down, then it fills in the rest - 10-20, nikon profile - automatically. Why can it do that after I specify the mfg., but can't do it until then?
One other question about this. If I want to turn lens correction on for a big batch of pix, the only way I see to do that is to do it on one, then sync them all. But, if I do it that way, will it figure out that different pix might have different lenses and choose accordingly, or will it select the same lens for all the sync'ed pix?
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5. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Victoria_Bampton Jun 8, 2010 8:17 AM (in response to loonsailor)loonsailor wrote:
If it's my Sigma 10-20, it leaves all the data blank until I select "sigma" from the manufacturer pull-down, then it fills in the rest - 10-20, nikon profile - automatically. Why can it do that after I specify the mfg., but can't do it until then?Because the information in the file has narrowed down to a few potential lens matches, and when you've told it that it was a Sigma lens, it's been able to fit together the rest of the information together to select the right one.
Having selected Sigma, and it's filled in the rest of the info, select 'Save New Lens Profile Default' from the Setup pop-up menu, and then it'll fill automatically in future.
loonsailor wrote:
If I want to turn lens correction on for a big batch of pix, the only way I see to do that is to do it on one, then sync them all. But, if I do it that way, will it figure out that different pix might have different lenses and choose accordingly, or will it select the same lens for all the sync'ed pix?Once you've done the Save Default to make LR aware of your lenses, setting the pop-up to 'Default' and syncing Lens Corrections will sync 'default', automatically selecting the right lens for each camera/lens combination.
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6. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
loonsailor Jun 8, 2010 9:05 AM (in response to Victoria_Bampton)Great! Thanks much for the help.
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7. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
dj_paige Jun 8, 2010 9:17 AM (in response to MadManChan2000)As indicated in Tom's notes, we have profiled a handful of lenses so
far and plan to expand the set with time.
Tom's notes??????????
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8. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Lee Jay-0I6no4 Jun 8, 2010 9:23 AM (in response to dj_paige)dj_paige wrote:
As indicated in Tom's notes, we have profiled a handful of lenses so
far and plan to expand the set with time.
Tom's notes??????????
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9. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
mikeatyarm Jun 8, 2010 12:06 PM (in response to dpick2)Hi,
No one seems to have answered the question re CAMERA/lens combination (except for the lens part). CS5 identifies my both 5D mkii and all the canon lens I use except for the cheap 50mm. Surely the lens characteristics will differ from use with a full frame camera and others with varying sensor sizes?
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10. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Victoria_Bampton Jun 8, 2010 12:10 PM (in response to mikeatyarm)It compensates where necessary.
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11. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Seán McCormack Jun 8, 2010 12:15 PM (in response to mikeatyarm)Actually it doesn't vary if the full frame was used to create the profile, because the profile crops in with a crop body.
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12. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Victoria_Bampton Jun 8, 2010 12:45 PM (in response to Seán McCormack)Seán McCormack wrote:
Actually it doesn't vary if the full frame was used to create the profile, because the profile crops in with a crop body.
Oooooh, I missed that bit of the convo!
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13. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
mikeatyarm Jun 8, 2010 1:14 PM (in response to Seán McCormack)Hi,
I,m sorry but I don't understand. If I use the EF 24-105 on full frame I get vignetting at 24mm, on a 1.6 sensor I get none. CS5 uses named cameras and lens wheas LR3 just calls them canon etc. perplexed? If you check on CS5 then there are numerous profiles for camera***/24 - 105mm combinations.
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14. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Seán McCormack Jun 8, 2010 1:32 PM (in response to mikeatyarm)How does the 24-105 work on your crop body? It only uses some of the
width of the lens. It ignores the corners. That's exactly what the
profile does too.
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15. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
M3Rocket Jun 8, 2010 1:51 PM (in response to dpick2)Is there a list anywhere of the profiles provided by LR3 and for which cameras?
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16. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Seán McCormack Jun 8, 2010 1:52 PM (in response to Seán McCormack)Let's look at a full frame with vignette on a lens. That's the outside rectangle. The crop body only sees the grey part.. not much vignette. With a profile made on a full frame, but used on a crop body, on the grey bit of the profile is needed.
Now, obviously you can, and people will make profiles for crop bodies from these lenses, and hopefully with a good review system, we'll get excellent profiles for all lenses.
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17. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
M3Rocket Jun 8, 2010 2:09 PM (in response to mikeatyarm)Sean--the confusion stems from LR3 NOT displaying the Camera or crop factor in the Lens Correction pane.
As you've illustrated, as long as the profile is made with a Full Frame camera, all the other calculations for crop cameras can be extrapolated from that profile. The problem is that LR3 currently doesn't tell us or allow us to manually select the camera/crop factor for the profile. So when you select a Custom profile, you can select the lens Make and Model, but not the camera body! Without the camera body information, how does LR3 know whether to "adjust" for the crop sensor or not?
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18. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Seán McCormack Jun 8, 2010 2:11 PM (in response to M3Rocket)It won't let you select a profile that doesn't have the information it needs, or so I've been led to believe.
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19. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
M3Rocket Jun 8, 2010 2:31 PM (in response to Seán McCormack)Well, LR3 doesn't behave that way.
Here's a screen shot of the dialog for lens correction in PTLens:
As you can see, you need to be able to tell the program which camera/crop factor the current photo is taken with for the program to figure out HOW to apply the corrections and whether to compensate for the crop.
Sure, you can create a "custom" profile with a crop sensor (and LR3 should PREVENT you from applying that to a Full Frame photo since vignetting nor Chromatic Abberation can be calculated from a "crop" profile). But that's beside the point.
As it stands, if the EXIF metadata is recognized by LR3, it seems like it will apply the corrections correctly because it supposedly knows the camera and crop factor. But then again, how would we know if the Camera is in the lens correction database since this isn't displayed anywhere?
For the correction factors to work, there are four things that must be known about BOTH the profile and the photo to which the corrections are being applied:
1. Lens Make
2. Lens Model
3. Camera Model and/or Crop Factor
4. Focal Length (critical if it's a zoom lens)
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20. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Lee Jay-0I6no4 Jun 8, 2010 2:36 PM (in response to M3Rocket)M3Rocket wrote:
But then again, how would we know if the Camera is in the lens correction database since this isn't displayed anywhere?Very simply. If LR can't uniquely identify the camera being used from the EXIF data, it won't apply any profile automatically even if you select the make first. If it has selected one, you can be sure that it knows the camera's characteristics.
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21. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
M3Rocket Jun 8, 2010 3:17 PM (in response to Lee Jay-0I6no4)Lee Jay wrote:
M3Rocket wrote:
But then again, how would we know if the Camera is in the lens correction database since this isn't displayed anywhere?Very simply. If LR can't uniquely identify the camera being used from the EXIF data, it won't apply any profile automatically even if you select the make first. If it has selected one, you can be sure that it knows the camera's characteristics.
Correct and understood. But how do you "tell" LR3 which camera the photo was shot on so that it can apply the profile?
Lets say I have a JPEG without EXIF shot on a Canon 1Ds Mark II with a Canon 35mm f1.4. LR3 has a profile for the lens shot on a Full Frame camera. But since there's no EXIF, I select Custom so that I can "tell" LR 3 to use that built in profile. I select the Make and Model of the lens. Then what? Does LR3 apply the profile since it doesn't "know" which camera I used to shoot the photo with (remember, EXIF is missing)?
In order for profiled lens correction to work, don't you have to know which camera/crop factor for both the profile and the photo in which you are trying to apply the profile? Notice I'm NOT saying that lens correction on LR3 is broken or that it doesn't work correctly. What I do know is that if you cannot select which camera the shot was taken with, and therefore, no way to tell LR3 to apply the profile correctly if the EXIF is missing the camera make and model.
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22. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Lee Jay-0I6no4 Jun 8, 2010 3:36 PM (in response to M3Rocket)M3Rocket wrote:
Lets say I have a JPEG without EXIF shot on a Canon 1Ds Mark II with a Canon 35mm f1.4. LR3 has a profile for the lens shot on a Full Frame camera. But since there's no EXIF, I select Custom so that I can "tell" LR 3 to use that built in profile. I select the Make and Model of the lens. Then what? Does LR3 apply the profile since it doesn't "know" which camera I used to shoot the photo with (remember, EXIF is missing)?
In that case, it applies it as though it's applying it to an image shot with the camera that shot the profile.
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23. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
dpick2 Jun 8, 2010 6:46 PM (in response to MadManChan2000)MadManChan2000 wrote:
As indicated in Tom's notes, we have profiled a handful of lenses so
far and plan to expand the set with time. I am not going to get into a
full discussion of the prioriies and tradeoffs involved, but suffice
it to say that while the 100 macro and its new IS variant are popular,
they are also not the lenses most in need of help, so to speak.
Eric
Thanks, Eric. I understand that priorities have to be made and that this particular lens doesn't need as much help as others--that makes sense. I am surprised LR3 doesn't already have the camera manufacturer listed, though. It certainly reads this information and displays it other places. Not a huge deal, though.
And, I'm sorry if I sounded harsh in my initial post. Lens correction was one of the main upgrades from the beta, but I understand it still has a few kinks to work out (some via Adobe, some not). 95% of the program seems top notch, and I'm thrilled with it.
Thanks to all who offered comments.
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24. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Lee Jay-0I6no4 Jun 8, 2010 6:50 PM (in response to dpick2)dpick2 wrote:
I am surprised LR3 doesn't already have the camera manufacturer listed, though.There's a good reason not to display the camera that was used to generate the profile - it implies both the camera and the lens must match with the shot to be corrected (like they do in DxO), which is in fact not the case. Only the lens must match.
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25. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
M3Rocket Jun 8, 2010 6:59 PM (in response to Lee Jay-0I6no4)Lee Jay wrote:
dpick2 wrote:
I am surprised LR3 doesn't already have the camera manufacturer listed, though.There's a good reason not to display the camera that was used to generate the profile - it implies both the camera and the lens must match with the shot to be corrected (like they do in DxO), which is in fact not the case. Only the lens must match.
We don't need to know which Camera was used for the profile. But certainly there is no reason not to allow the user to specify which camera was used to take the photo?
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26. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Lee Jay-0I6no4 Jun 8, 2010 7:03 PM (in response to M3Rocket)M3Rocket wrote:
Lee Jay wrote:
dpick2 wrote:
I am surprised LR3 doesn't already have the camera manufacturer listed, though.There's a good reason not to display the camera that was used to generate the profile - it implies both the camera and the lens must match with the shot to be corrected (like they do in DxO), which is in fact not the case. Only the lens must match.
We don't need to know which Camera was used for the profile. But certainly there is no reason not to allow the user to specify which camera was used to take the photo?
The reason not to is that it's nearly always in the EXIF data. If yours are not, you're either doing something wrong or your doing something terribly unusual. Remember, LR is primarily designed to process digital images from digital cameras.
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27. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Bob Ulius Jun 8, 2010 7:40 PM (in response to Lee Jay-0I6no4)Can someone tell me why there are duplicate lenses in the profile lists? For example, both Canon 24-70mm and Canon EF 24-70mm. What would be different between these two?
Thanks.
~Bob
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28. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Lee Jay-0I6no4 Jun 8, 2010 7:42 PM (in response to Bob Ulius)Bob Ulius wrote:
Can someone tell me why there are duplicate lenses in the profile lists? For example, both Canon 24-70mm and Canon EF 24-70mm. What would be different between these two?
Thanks.
~Bob
Where, exactly, are you seeing those two? Are you sure one of them isn't a Canon mount Sigma 24-70?
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29. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
M3Rocket Jun 8, 2010 7:47 PM (in response to Lee Jay-0I6no4)Lee Jay wrote:
M3Rocket wrote:
Lee Jay wrote:
dpick2 wrote:
I am surprised LR3 doesn't already have the camera manufacturer listed, though.There's a good reason not to display the camera that was used to generate the profile - it implies both the camera and the lens must match with the shot to be corrected (like they do in DxO), which is in fact not the case. Only the lens must match.
We don't need to know which Camera was used for the profile. But certainly there is no reason not to allow the user to specify which camera was used to take the photo?
The reason not to is that it's nearly always in the EXIF data. If yours are not, you're either doing something wrong or your doing something terribly unusual. Remember, LR is primarily designed to process digital images from digital cameras.
Hmmm. I still don't see why that's a reason NOT to show it? Or allow someone to manually change it when using "Custom" settings. Showing it and allowing it to be changed doesn't limit anything, and is certainly better than letting LR3 apply the profile "incorrectly" when the info isn't there. What is the "harm" in showing it?
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30. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Bob Ulius Jun 8, 2010 7:49 PM (in response to Lee Jay-0I6no4)Well, until you said that I was sure I had seen it as both Canon, but let me look and I'
ll be right back.
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31. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Lee Jay-0I6no4 Jun 8, 2010 7:49 PM (in response to M3Rocket)Showing what? You asked to *specify* it.
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32. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Bob Ulius Jun 8, 2010 8:03 PM (in response to Bob Ulius)OK, took me a bit to find where I had
seen that and I did, but you may be right that it is a list of all lenses and is not duplicating Canons. Just to show you, I opene
d it in image one, and the next two are the lens list that made me think they were all Canon since they do not list teh manufactu
rer in that list:
~Bob
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33. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
M3Rocket Jun 8, 2010 8:26 PM (in response to Lee Jay-0I6no4)Lee Jay wrote:
Showing what? You asked to *specify* it.
I advocated both showing it (the camera that LR3 thinks the shot was taken with) and being able to specify it when using Custom. There is a compelling reason for both--and I fail to see the negatives of showing and/or allowing one to specify it when that info either is not available to LR3 automatically, or for manual correction.
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34. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
Lee Jay-0I6no4 Jun 8, 2010 8:26 PM (in response to M3Rocket)M3Rocket wrote:
Lee Jay wrote:
Showing what? You asked to *specify* it.
I advocated both showing it and being able to specify it when using Custom. There is a compelling reason for both--and I fail to see the negatives of showing and/or allowing one to specify it when that info either is not available to LR3 automatically, or for manual correction.
It would require team resources to implement, for very little payback (almost no one would use it).
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35. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
M3Rocket Jun 8, 2010 9:38 PM (in response to Lee Jay-0I6no4)Lee Jay wrote:
M3Rocket wrote:
Lee Jay wrote:
Showing what? You asked to *specify* it.
I advocated both showing it and being able to specify it when using Custom. There is a compelling reason for both--and I fail to see the negatives of showing and/or allowing one to specify it when that info either is not available to LR3 automatically, or for manual correction.
It would require team resources to implement, for very little payback (almost no one would use it).
I'm at a loss for words--that sounds a bit arrogant. How do you know that "almost no one" would use it, or how much resources it would take and what the payback would be? Do you work for Adobe? I clearly showed it implemented correctly in PTLens (I've been using it for a number of years) and why I think it is important.
P.S. Are you the same "Lee Jay" from the RSe and RSp (Rawshooter) forums?
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36. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
MadManChan2000 Jun 8, 2010 10:48 PM (in response to M3Rocket)M3Rocket, I may be misunderstanding you, but the EXIF information corresponding to the camera used to shoot a given image can be viewed by pressing Cmd-I (or cycling through just by pressing the i key). This provides a text overlay showing which camera was used to shoot the picture. This overlay display text can be customized, if you wish. Keep in mind that it's just pulling it from the EXIF, so if it's not there in the EXIF to begin with, unfortunately you'll have to use another tool to fill it in (assuming the info is important to you).
For lens profiles, as indicated above, the lens profile UI doesn't show the camera data used to build the profile since that's irrelevant for the practical purpose of applying the lens profile in the LR workflow. Basically, the current LR UI is designed to allow you to turn on/off LC, choose a profile if necessary, and adjust the correction. Knowing information about the profile itself might be interesting, but IMO does not help you make a useful decision about how to process an image.
Re: the Sigma 10-20 question. Regrettably, we cannot always automatically determine with 100% certainty the identity of the lens used to shoot the image. We try to be conservative. So if in doubt, we don't choose one automatically. For some third party lenses, this can happen. Choosing Sigma from the Make popup is the right thing to do in this case.
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37. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
M3Rocket Jun 8, 2010 11:50 PM (in response to MadManChan2000)MadManChan2000 wrote:
M3Rocket, I may be misunderstanding you, but the EXIF information corresponding to the camera used to shoot a given image can be viewed by pressing Cmd-I (or cycling through just by pressing the i key). This provides a text overlay showing which camera was used to shoot the picture. This overlay display text can be customized, if you wish. Keep in mind that it's just pulling it from the EXIF, so if it's not there in the EXIF to begin with, unfortunately you'll have to use another tool to fill it in (assuming the info is important to you).
For lens profiles, as indicated above, the lens profile UI doesn't show the camera data used to build the profile since that's irrelevant for the practical purpose of applying the lens profile in the LR workflow. Basically, the current LR UI is designed to allow you to turn on/off LC, choose a profile if necessary, and adjust the correction. Knowing information about the profile itself might be interesting, but IMO does not help you make a useful decision about how to process an image.
Re: the Sigma 10-20 question. Regrettably, we cannot always automatically determine with 100% certainty the identity of the lens used to shoot the image. We try to be conservative. So if in doubt, we don't choose one automatically. For some third party lenses, this can happen. Choosing Sigma from the Make popup is the right thing to do in this case.
Thanx for clarifying!
Yes--I do know about the EXIF. And I also agree that the camera used for the profile is irrelevant to the end user during application. But the profile is controlled--meaning LR3 isn't "guessing" which camera took the photos used for profiling. It's a requirement to specify that for building the profile.
When importing photos (JPEG, et al.), sometimes LR3 won't know which camera took those photos for whatever reason. Could be because of missing or mangled EXIF, could be a new Camera Make and/or Model that isn't in the database yet. In this case, currently, LR3 will simply make a "best guess" and apply the profile as if the photo was shot with the same camera/crop factor as the profile. And this will result in clearly inaccurate corrections when the cameras used for generating the profile and the camera used for taking the shot have different crop factors.
But as a user, if I could "inform" or "tell" LR3 that the camera is similar to a 1.6x or 1.3x camera that is already in the database, then LR3 could take that into account and produce accurate results since it now knows "for certain" which camera was used for the shot and which was used for the profile, thereby making the correct adjustment factors.
I had used the dialog box of PTLens to illustrate this previously. I'm not sure with all the "resistance" that I'm being clear enough. It's not that I want to see the camera used to create the profile, which everyone keeps referring to.
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38. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
John Kjellberg Jun 9, 2010 3:23 AM (in response to M3Rocket)I'm not sure how well the profiles would apply but one reason to be able to choose camera (or sensor size) would be for use on scanned pictures.
- John
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39. Re: Isn't LR3 supposed to automatically choose correct camera/lens for correction?
JazzGuy84 Jun 21, 2010 10:48 AM (in response to dpick2)I'm still trying to figure out how to have LR3 automatically apply lens correction to all the pictures in a folder...
1) All are RAW format from the same camera
2) I have 3 different Nikon lenses that have profiles in LR3.
If I apply lens correction to one photo and sync, will it sync with the correct lens profile for each photo or will it apply the lens correction for the synced photo incorrectly to other photos that weren't taken with that lens?
Thanks!










