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1. Re: I cannot edit smart object files in Photoshop, how can this be remedied?
D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Jun 19, 2010 11:16 AM (in response to DVDmike)DVDmike wrote:
In LR3.0, I select a .psd file in my catalog and do "edit in Photoshop as a smart object". Inside of Photoshop CS5, I double click on the layer or click "edit contents" of the smart object layer, it takes me to the ACR dialog.
This is how it's supposed to work. The smart object is the raw file, editable in ACR.
What you want is to open the rendered (not raw) file in Photoshop and then convert to smart object.
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2. Re: I cannot edit smart object files in Photoshop, how can this be remedied?
DVDmike Jun 19, 2010 1:34 PM (in response to D Fosse-QDEaQ1)First of all, I never said that it was a bug. But it is supposed to work like this? Someone purposely designed it to work like this? Under what reality is this the desired way to edit a smart object that has already been "rendered" as a photoshop file?
Regardless of how it is supposed to work, telling me to edit the rendered file does not help me any. I am asking HOW to take what I have done and edit the layer in photoshop without rasterizing it. If this is NOT possible, let me know. But I would hope that it is.
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3. Re: I cannot edit smart object files in Photoshop, how can this be remedied?
D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Jun 19, 2010 4:34 PM (in response to DVDmike)I don't really see the problem. Just use adjustment layers like you would with any "normal" file - and you still have the option to go back and re-edit the raw file (only it will reopen in ACR instead of Lightroom).
Plus you can stack several instances with different develop settings and mask them.
To be honest I don't know why anyone would want it any other way.
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4. Re: I cannot edit smart object files in Photoshop, how can this be remedied?
DVDmike Jun 20, 2010 5:34 PM (in response to D Fosse-QDEaQ1)If you do not understand why its in issue for me that smart objects behave differently simply depending on how they were created, I will try to explain it to you. Thanks for asking.
I cannot use adjustment layers as they will affect everything underneath, correct? This particular comp has several layers and at least 5 smart objects. Plus, adjustment layers do not cut it for everything that I might do to make an adjustment to an image. I am way beyond using only adjustment layers as the only way to adjust an image.
I have several actions that I have developed and they need a single layer to work properly. In this case, I did my composition's design first as a proof of concept for the client. I did this before I made the final adjustments to all of the images in the comp. The actions that I use to adjust each photo in the comp have filters in them and do not work properly when you have other photo layers in your comp. I also have many 3rd party plug-ins. While NIK's will work on smart objects properly (I have not checked if they would work on this ACR smart object?), OnOne's plug in suite will not work well on a layer when you have multiple layers in your comp. Up to now, this was NEVER an issue because I could always edit the contents of my smart object and run my actions or 3rd part filters and save it and it would update it. Please tell me how I can do this using "adjustment layers" on a comp with multiple layers? The reason this was never an issue before is because I always opened my photos from lightroom using the "edit in photoshop with lightroom adjustments" (from RAW files). Then I would drag that layer into my comp .psd file and immediately convert it to a smart object. If you do this procedure, the smart object opens inside of photoshop without opening in ACR. So I thought that I would save a step and use lightroom to create my smart object for me. It was not until I did a lot of masking on these smart object layers and tried to open the smart object when I realized that it was behaving differently than I was accustomed to.
If the preferred way for smart objects to work is to always open them in ACR and never allow you edit them in photoshop using photoshop tools, why then doesn't it work this way if I edit the file in photoshop first and then convert to smart object? Since they behave differently, at the very least they should not both be named "smart objects". They could be called "ACR objects" and "photoshop objects" if adobe needs to have them act differently. But don't call them the same name and then not let me use the same tools for either method of creating them.
I ended up starting over on this comp just because of this issue. Now I know NEVER to use LR to create a smart object unless I want to be limited to ACR only controls. Going forward, this will not be an issue for me since I will stay away from opening smart objects in LR.
ACR controls, while incredibly powerful for a lot of non-destructive editing, simply cannot accomplish everything that can be done inside of photoshop. And by using smart objects inside of photoshop, I can do everything that I can do in ACR and yet still be 100% non destructive. This comes at the cost of dramatically increasing file size. My comp is about 2GB and only has three photos contained within it. When you start to add multiple effects to your smart object, it will increase even more. But if you have the disk space and the computer horsepower, it is a non issue.
I could see that it would be a design feature to first open RAW files in ACR for smart objects that started from RAW files. But my files inside the lightroom catalog were already.psd files. I cannot begin to understand everyone's workflow, but I have never found a need to edit a .psd file with the ACR dialog. The reason why I saved it as a .psd is that the image adjustments that could be done inside of LR had already been accomplished. Regardless of workflow, why not have the same "open" button in ACR that you have when using ACR in Bridge, for example. If all you need is to make ACR type adjustments, you can do so and save your updated smart object. But why can't I also go to the next level if I wanted and edit these smart objects inside of photoshop? To think that the way that it works now is going to work for everyone is naive. Again, if this is the way it is designed to work, then why does Bridge ACR allow you to open a file in photoshop and why do smart objects created inside of photoshop allow you to edit them inside of photoshop? There is a photoshop program because ACR does not cut it for everything that one might need to do. All I am asking is let me use it for any smart object layer if I want to.
I realize that smart objects are not a part of the average photoshop user's workflow. But they can be very powerful tool when they are not limited to ACR only controls.
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5. Re: I cannot edit smart object files in Photoshop, how can this be remedied?
D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Jun 21, 2010 12:27 AM (in response to DVDmike)DVDmike wrote:
I cannot use adjustment layers as they will affect everything underneath, correct?Well, not correct, actually. You can clip it to the underlying layer, so that it affects only that layer. You can also group layers and clip the adjustment layer to the group.
In any case, one of the basic facts of smart objects, whichever way they are created, is that the "container" object cannot be edited directly. The only way to edit a smart object is through adjustment layers and masking.
To edit the contents of the smart object, you have to open it and resave. So coming from Lightroom, there are two options:
Either "edit in Photoshop" and send a rendered file to Photoshop, and then convert to smart object. Or "edit in Photoshop as smart object", which will embed a copy of the original raw file in the smart object - and this raw file can only be opened by a raw converter, ACR or Lightroom.
I still don't see how it could be any other way.
I have never found a need to edit a .psd file with the ACR dialog. The reason why I saved it as a .psd is that the image adjustments that could be done inside of LR had already been accomplished.
ACR/Lr will not open .psd's. So you're talking about rendered files.
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6. Re: I cannot edit smart object files in Photoshop, how can this be remedied?
D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Jun 21, 2010 12:35 AM (in response to DVDmike)But, to be clear (and this may be where the confusion lies):
If you open a raw file as a smart object in Photoshop - either from ACR or Lightroom - that smart object is a Photoshop file, a .psd.
But the contents of the smart object is still a raw file. As I said, it's an embedded copy. And that raw file can only be opened in ACR.


