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1. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 17, 2010 12:29 PM (in response to E Diane King)I'm almost positive that the issue is in the spanning option. I just had a page where the table was flowing over into a regular one column textframe. The table was empty--I had cleared it of content accept the row and column headers. I clicked on the textframe and then on my 2 column object style and ID locked up. I also cannot change the table style at all--even with the text cut to the clipboard--when I paste the text back after changing the style, ID locks up.
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2. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
Eugene Tyson Aug 17, 2010 12:32 PM (in response to E Diane King)I've encountered this too. It's awful.
Luckily you can insert the cursor before the table, cut the table out as a whole and then paste it into a text frame, then anchor that text frame, it's worked for me.
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3. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 17, 2010 12:35 PM (in response to Eugene Tyson)Is there a set of steps that produces the problem that we can report to Adobe as a bug? I've just now encountered it for the first time, and I'm fighting a deadline to get this project done . . . so haven't had a chance to see if I can recreate the problem.
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4. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 17, 2010 12:38 PM (in response to Eugene Tyson)That solution will not work for me because I need the table to be able to flow between pages. An anchored textframe won't do that.
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5. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
Harbs. Aug 17, 2010 12:43 PM (in response to E Diane King)Hi Diane,
FWIW, you might be better off using Column Flow instead of the CS5 spanning features. (It's included in Layout Tools which I believe you have installed.)
Harbs
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6. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 17, 2010 12:49 PM (in response to Harbs.)Yes, I do have it installed, but it appears too complicated to apply in this case--when I'm on a deadline and not exactly sure how to get it to work. I have the Layout Tools, but currently only use the side heads (what I bought it for). I need time to figure out the other two. I know they'll be useful (the reason why I got the whole set), but the learning curb is too high for this particular project where I have a HUGE style sheet. I started to use it earlier on another similar book and gave up because it required going through the entire style sheet and deciding which ones needed to do what and renaming them all. Too much set up, right now.
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7. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
Harbs. Aug 17, 2010 12:56 PM (in response to E Diane King)No. You don't need to rename styles. That limitation was removed in the recent release.
The setup shouldn't be difficult (and it should be even easier if your styles are set up in a logical based-on hierarchy), but learning something new under pressure is not usually the way to go about it...
Good luck!
Harbs
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8. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 17, 2010 12:59 PM (in response to E Diane King)Though I have to say, seeing as I've only managed about 10 pages of layout today with over 20 lockups . . . I may have to spend a couple hours and figure out the plugin. My biggest concern with switching to the plugin is that the spanning feature works for my editors with IC but the plugin won't (I think), so reflow will cause them havoc as they edit.
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9. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
Eugene Tyson Aug 17, 2010 12:59 PM (in response to E Diane King)Steps
Set up a two column frame
Insert a table. Set the table to span columns.
I'll have to check that out tomorrow. But I've encoutered it and it is down to the tables.
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10. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
Eugene Tyson Aug 17, 2010 1:04 PM (in response to Eugene Tyson)I made a thread about this issue last week
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11. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 18, 2010 5:05 AM (in response to Eugene Tyson)I haven't been able to recreate the error with a new document. I've even imported my style lists from the other document and, using placeholder text, I've recreated a duplicate of the pages that are crashing in the other document. Unfortunately (or fortunately--depending on how you look at it) I can't reproduce the behavior. The next step is to import the text into this new doc and see if that recreates the error. If so, then it's something in the text that is destablizing ID.
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12. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 18, 2010 7:11 AM (in response to E Diane King)I hope someone is still following this thread. I have put my new created sample document into a dropbox to share:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2893132/Sample.indd
ID did not lock up until I actually started putting real text in the table. I can edit the table, edit the table text styles, edit all the text boxes, etc. as long as I'm not making use of the spanning features. As soon as I make the first textbox a 2 column box, the next edit that causes the table to reflow in any way locks up ID. To see the behavior, open the Sample doc I have linked to and try resizing the text box on page 2. I'm not sure now that the actual text has anything to do with it, but it's hard to recreate the behavior without using actual text. Since my text comes from a Word document. I've done everything I know how to do to strip any formatting from it when I bring it in (short of saving the doc as plain text).
In this instance, the table behaved in a spanned workflow until I pasted the real text into the table, so I'm still not positive that there isn't a textual reason why it locks up ID, I just can't figure out what is causing it. I have 14 more tables to go in this book and would appreciate any help.
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13. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
Eugene Tyson Aug 18, 2010 7:52 AM (in response to E Diane King)I'll take a look shortly.
I'm not so sure if it's actually tables or spanned columns anymore.
I, about 20 mintues ago, had a file that kept crashing and I wasn't using the spanned columns, in fact it was a single column text with no tables and nothing else.
every time I deleted a word it crashed. I ended up creating a new document and copying and pasting everything over.
I noticed that some of the Keep Options that I had set up manually (like with bullets that crossed pages and I didn't want a lonely bullet) those were stripped out.
But after recreating the document it all works fine now.
(IDML and umpteen other file fixes didn't work)
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14. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
peter at knowhowpro Aug 18, 2010 7:58 AM (in response to E Diane King)E Diane King wrote:
I hope someone is still following this thread. I have put my new created sample document into a dropbox to share:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2893132/Sample.indd
ID did not lock up until I actually started putting real text in the table. I can edit the table, edit the table text styles, edit all the text boxes, etc. as long as I'm not making use of the spanning features. As soon as I make the first textbox a 2 column box, the next edit that causes the table to reflow in any way locks up ID. To see the behavior, open the Sample doc I have linked to and try resizing the text box on page 2. I'm not sure now that the actual text has anything to do with it, but it's hard to recreate the behavior without using actual text. Since my text comes from a Word document. I've done everything I know how to do to strip any formatting from it when I bring it in (short of saving the doc as plain text).
In this instance, the table behaved in a spanned workflow until I pasted the real text into the table, so I'm still not positive that there isn't a textual reason why it locks up ID, I just can't figure out what is causing it. I have 14 more tables to go in this book and would appreciate any help.
Hi, Diane: (or should I say, "Hi 'E?'"
- I skipped picking substitutes for the missing fonts.
- I opened the file and at first I couldn't select main text, couldn't see hidden characters, either.
- In Layers, I found a layer on top of the text.
- When I inserted an insertion point in main text and arrowed down, to pass the table, it stopped to the right of a blank space where page 3 should be. I finally figured out that Preview was on.
- Adding text to the first cell of the table causing it to flow to page 2 didn't hang InDesign. Adding text in a different cell worked fine.
- Turning off Preview will show that the table continues to a non-existent page; there's no page 3 in Pages panel.
- Smart Text Reflow is set to End of Story and Limit to Master Page Text Frames.
- I'm on Snow Leopard on MacBook Pro pre-Unibody, with 6GB RAM; other apps are running.
- I don't know what the problem is on your machine, but apparently it's not on my machine.
I suggest:
- First thought: my missing fonts may indict your present fonts as corrupt. Try changing the Cronos, Edmonds, Factos, and Symbol fonts; my replacement defaulted to Minion Pro
- keeping the text layer on top - especially if you'll have transparency on some layers, to avoid fuzzy flattening
- add a page 3
- try setting Smart Text Reflow to End of Document, disable Limit to Master Page Text Frames, or disable it; perhaps one permutation of these is the problem, alone, or with the missing page 3
HTH
Regards,
Peter
_______________________
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
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15. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 18, 2010 8:24 AM (in response to peter at knowhowpro)Did you try resizing the text frames or changing the first frame's columns?
I'm aware that the table flows to the pasteboard. I have preview turned off most of the time, only toggling it so that I can see the document clean occasionally. This is just a sample document and I didn't bother to flow the whole thing.
I'm not sure what's going on with the layers when you open the file. The layering is all done on the master page and is situated so that the bottom corners of the master graphic will overlap anything going down that far. That layer should not affect your ability to edit the text at all (nor has it on any other file (and I have many with this master set up)).
I've been using these fonts and this layout in multiple books without issue. The only thing new in this sample is the table.
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16. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
peter at knowhowpro Aug 18, 2010 9:34 AM (in response to E Diane King)E Diane King wrote:
Did you try resizing the text frames or changing the first frame's columns?
I'm aware that the table flows to the pasteboard. I have preview turned off most of the time, only toggling it so that I can see the document clean occasionally. This is just a sample document and I didn't bother to flow the whole thing.
I'm not sure what's going on with the layers when you open the file. The layering is all done on the master page and is situated so that the bottom corners of the master graphic will overlap anything going down that far. That layer should not affect your ability to edit the text at all (nor has it on any other file (and I have many with this master set up)).
I've been using these fonts and this layout in multiple books without issue. The only thing new in this sample is the table.
OK! "Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in." YES YES YES! Changing columns of the main text frame freezes InDesign and requires a forced quit. I'd say it's a bug that needs formal reporting at: Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form
HTH
Regards,
Peter
_______________________
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
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17. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 18, 2010 9:44 AM (in response to peter at knowhowpro)I will as soon as I can figure out what steps create the problem. This file didn't start misbehaving until I brought my own text into the document and started actually using the tables. Placeholder text didn't have an issue.
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18. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 18, 2010 9:50 AM (in response to peter at knowhowpro)Hi, Diane: (or should I say, "Hi 'E?'"
Diane is fine. I had to add the E because I didn't get my previous user account transferred with they changed the forum and I lost it, but it's "in use" still so I can't use it either.
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19. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 19, 2010 5:05 AM (in response to E Diane King)Well, I was successful in creating a simple step by step generic file that displays the bug (linked below).
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2893132/SpanTableTest.indd
Here are the steps that created it:
Concise problem statement: Using span columns with a large table locks up CS5
Steps to reproduce bug:
1 Create a document and fill with placeholder text, using styles for a title that spans and body text. Then create a large table and fill it with text enough to make it need a page or two.
2. Make the first page two column and paste the table into the flow somewhere in the middle of the page and apply the title (spanning) style to the paragraph that contains the table so that the text reflows with the table spanning the columns beneath and flowing to the next page.
3. Resize the text frame or change the number of columns in the text frame. Other commands that might cause the crash are changing the table style or table text style in such a way that it will require more space in a row. Simply editing table text will not cause a crash.
Results: ID hesitates and then gives you the "busy" cursor. It will require a force quit because it will not recover.
BUG report submitted.
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20. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
peter at knowhowpro Aug 19, 2010 5:12 AM (in response to E Diane King)Thanks for the steps to create the bug and for reporting it, Diane.
Just wondering: have you tried using the split column property to create the multi-column layout where you need it, rather than giving the multi-column property to the text frame? Crash or success?
Regards,
Peter
_______________________
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
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21. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 19, 2010 5:17 AM (in response to peter at knowhowpro)No, I have not tried that. In the document where the bug bit me, most of the styles needed to flow in columns and only a few needed to span, so it would have been a lot more work intensive to do it the other way. I would have had to edit a large number of styles to get the results I wanted and some of those styles I actually want to flow regular when I have a one column textbox, so it would have meant even more styles. I will test the theory on the generic file, though, just to see what happens.
FYI, on the layout where the bug bit me, I've gone back to the old way of flowing--creating a new box for the table. It makes the layout cumbersome, and will be troublesome for the editors using IC, but there's not much else I can do at this point if and until Adobe fixes the bug.
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22. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 19, 2010 5:25 AM (in response to E Diane King)Splitting columns on the regular text and leaving the text box one column does not produce the bug. I really think it has to do with a spanning paragraph style applied to a table insertion point in a mutli-column textframe. When I redid my other document to avoid the bug, I made sure all my tables were in non-spanning paragraphs before I made any other change to the doc. This prevents the crash. If there is any table anywhere in the document that has spanning applied to its insertion point, then the document will lock up at the slightest command that might cause that table to reflow. I actually locked up a couple times trying to get to the workaround because I had so many tables in the document by that time that it was hard to get them all before I did something that caused the lockup.
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23. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
peter at knowhowpro Aug 19, 2010 5:40 AM (in response to E Diane King)E Diane King wrote:
Splitting columns on the regular text and leaving the text box one column does not produce the bug. I really think it has to do with a spanning paragraph style applied to a table insertion point in a mutli-column textframe. When I redid my other document to avoid the bug, I made sure all my tables were in non-spanning paragraphs before I made any other change to the doc. This prevents the crash. If there is any table anywhere in the document that has spanning applied to its insertion point, then the document will lock up at the slightest command that might cause that table to reflow. I actually locked up a couple times trying to get to the workaround because I had so many tables in the document by that time that it was hard to get them all before I did something that caused the lockup.
You've certainly done a lot of work to whittle the problem down to the essence - table in a spanned paragraph in a multi-column text frame. I remember reporting a spanned-column bug during beta. It's logical that because InDesign freezes rather than crashes outright, the problem is some kind of perpetual recalculation that's triggered; calculating the relationships between columns and splits is probably the core challenge of making these properties work. [EDIT: this kind of cause might make it easier for the developers to fix than if it were due to a not-yet-encountered kind of problem. /EDIT]
I don't know if using individual threaded text frames to create the multi-column snaking layout that precedes the table, coupled with Typifi's free Auto-fit plug-in could solve the problem, but it's not available for CS5. Perhaps the commercial Autoflow Pro plug-in from in-tools.com might work.
HTH
Regards,
Peter
_______________________
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
Message was edited by: peter at knowhowpro
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24. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
E Diane King Aug 19, 2010 6:26 AM (in response to peter at knowhowpro)Nice to know that it might be easier to fix than some bugs . . . probably not soon enough for me and this current project, but I'm glad I haven't yet gotten too dependent on the spanning columns feature (though I admit that I LOVE it when it works--it's my favorite of the new features).
Thanks for sticking with me through all this. Maybe Adobe will be kind enough to post here when the bug is fixed . . . I linked to the thread in my bug report.
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25. Re: Spanned tables locks up ID CS5
cs666 Jul 3, 2012 8:35 PM (in response to peter at knowhowpro)'table in a spanned paragraph in a multi-column text frame'
Happens for me in a single column text frame, which is linked across multiple pages.
CS6, Win7/64



