6 Replies Latest reply: Aug 24, 2010 7:20 AM by Bill Hunt RSS

    How do I fix an error with "Picture Timing SEI"?

    457657576547657

      Hello, sorry about the terrible screen name, they were all taken. I'm Tom.

       

      I am having a disappointing and difficult problem creating a Blu Ray with Encore CS5.

       

      I've successfully created a PAL format BD disc, using H.264 720p50 for the main feature, and MPEG-2 576i25 for the extras. Now it's time to go back and make a NTSC version. So I took the 720p25 master (yes, 25p - used 50p for PAL-BD as demanded) and placed it in After Effects, using a 59.964 composition and thus re-creating the frame rate. The result was an AVI which plays OK. I then passed that to Adobe Media Encoder and asked for an NTSC H.264 file VBR 12-24Mbps. Seemed OK.

       

      Placed that into a new NTSC project in Encore, it built OK - but the quality was very poor here and there where the encoder had run out of bandwidth. So I did it again but this time let Media Encoder take 2 passes. Encore now wanted to transcode it! Huh? It's the same settings?

       

      So I gave the original AVI to Encore and allowed it to transcode that, 2 passes. Seemed OK. But when building the disc it said:

      "Error Invalid Format , code 14, this stream doesn't include Picture timing SEI."

       

      Same result if I forced the original output from Media Encoder - "doesn't include Picture timing SEI."

       

      I pulled out a third party encoder, ran that, and gave Encore a pretty quick and dirty transcode. Yes, that would build OK. So then I set the encoder to be high quality and again 2 passes. Encore barfed - "doesn't include Picture timing SEI."

       

      Somehow, using 2 passes is creating a file that breaks Encore's rules. BUT - when I mux the audio and create a BD disc using the same file in Nero - it plays in a PS3 perfectly fine. So whatever Encore is griping about, it's something that other software can figure out.

       

      Right now I am trying to feed the 720p25 file to a NTSC Premiere sequence and from there to Encore, but after a week of this I'm really disappointed, especially when Encore itself did the transcode and flubbed it.

       

      My question then please: how is using 2 passes in an NTSC transcode creating this problem that doesn't happen in PAL, and is there means by which I can correct the problem so that Encore will accept this file? Thank you.

        • 1. Re: How do I fix an error with "Picture Timing SEI"?
          Jeff Bellune CommunityMVP

          The picture timing SEI message tells the decoder which way to display a field: Top or Bottom.  You can get errors about it if you have both interlaced and progressive frames in your video stream when you encode to H.264.

           

          I don't know if that is the case for you, but converting from PAL to NTSC isn't a trivial thing, and little issues can become big issues quite quickly.

           

          I suspect that your conversion and export in After Effects isn't quite what it should be, and that your source AVI file is giving the H.264 encoders a problem.  Try encoding to MPEG2 Blu-ray and see if things get better in En and if you get the results you want on a burned disc.  Use a BD-RE to avoid making coasters.

           

          -Jeff

          • 2. Re: How do I fix an error with "Picture Timing SEI"?
            457657576547657 Community Member

            This makes a lot of sense. I was hoping that running the 25fps through Premiere would help, but it hasn't. While I try what you have suggested - I have a linked question - is it possible to just use the 50fps version on a NTSC disc? The Blu Ray white paper suggests that could be done - but I bet it's a weird notion.

             

            Thanks.

            • 3. Re: How do I fix an error with "Picture Timing SEI"?
              457657576547657 Community Member

              OK just to report, I took a completely different AVI at 25fps. Fed that into Media Encoder and this time let it do the speed change. Using 1 pass - it worked. Using 2 passes, Encore fails with the same SEI message. I give up - I'll just use MPEG-2 as suggested.

               

              Thanks.

              • 4. Re: How do I fix an error with "Picture Timing SEI"?
                Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                As En is not an NLE (Non Linear Editor), I feel that one is best served to do ALL editing and ALL conversions outside of it, and then just feed it the ideal Asset for that Project. If I need several versions, whether NTSC and PAL, or other, I will do a separate Export from my NLE to the exact specs. required. En can do a little bit of conversion, and their are extremely rudimentary editing functions, but I stay far from those and just feed it what it needs, and what it likes.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: How do I fix an error with "Picture Timing SEI"?
                  457657576547657 Community Member

                  Thanks to both.

                  I used MPEG-2 and the process was painless. The results are very good, perhaps a little softer than H.264 but not worth the fuss.

                   

                  I believe that when I converted from 50 to 59.94 fps, no matter what means I used the result caused the H.264 encoder to see fields doing unusual things and opt out. The MPEG-2 encoder seems to not have this trouble. I tried multiple encoders, multiple sources, the only factor that was constant was that Encore would detect weirdness. I'm not sure how many people are having to make NTSC discs from PAL sources but I hope this adds to the knowledge.

                  • 6. Re: How do I fix an error with "Picture Timing SEI"?
                    Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                    Great news, and glad that the MPEG-2 option worked for you. You are not the first to have an issue with H.264. Not sure of the "why," as the Projects have had little in common, beyond the H.264. Could be as simple as a glitch there, or perhaps issues unique to each Project.

                     

                    Still, great news is great news!

                     

                    Happy authoring,

                     

                    Hunt