25 Replies Latest reply: Jan 20, 2011 5:22 AM by Webshark2000 RSS

    AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches

    Webshark2000 Community Member

      I have a Panasonic HMC150 camera and we shot some footage in 1080 60i. After editing the native files in Premiere Pro CS4 I opened Encore and tried numerous times to burn a 16:9 DVD.  I tried using dynamic link and letting Encore do the encoding.  I tried Exporting a DVD Compatible Mpeg2 file.  I tried exporting an NTSC AVI file, but every time the DVD is burned there are 1 or 2 glitches in the final video on the DVD.

       

      The segment isn't very long (only about three minutes), but I keep getting glitches where the video seems to stutter for a second, jumping back a few frames, repeating a few, then jumping back to the correct spot.

       

      Anyone else had these issues?

        • 1. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
          Webshark2000 Community Member

          I've continued to experience the same problem with footage shot on different occasions and edited on separate machines.  I believe I've narrowed it down to clips that have a color-correction filter applied to them.  It doesn't affect every clip, and so far it seems to only affect short clips (under 1 min).  I still can't figure out how to fix it.

           

          I've tried using the Fast Color Corrector and the 3-way Color Corrector, but I get a glitch with either of them.  This is driving me crazy since I really want to use color correction on the clips.

           

          Any help would be much appreciated.

           

          The footage is 720 24p AVCHD, shot with a Panasonic HMC150 and I'm using CS4.

          • 2. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
            Webshark2000 Community Member

            Scratch my last comment.  I just saw a glitch in a clip that had no effects on it whatsoever.  I'm banging my head against the wall.

            • 3. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
              sheggle Community Member

              In the past, I've tried the following using Encore.

              1. Re-transcode in encore  ( I've since learnt that turning off one of my cores can help get through the transcoding easier).  To re-transcode right click on the clip concern and revert to original.  This will draw back in the original footage.  Then transode it again.  If there are several clips in the movie this is a great system since you don't need to re- transcode everything.  Once you've transcoded it you can preview just that clip within encore.  What you see is what you'll get burnt to the disc.

              2. If that doesn't work I go back to the original footage and check that there are no glitches there...also you could cover that glitch with a title or something?  Or adjust the footage to take strain off the processing such as colour correction etc.

              3. If that doesn't work that's when I scream and stamp my foot much as I'm doing now trying to get a decent mp4 file.

               

              Not much help but so far that's my experience.

              • 4. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                Webshark2000 Community Member

                Thanks for the reply.  Good to know I'm not the only one who's had issues.  I have done what you suggested with reverting to original and retranscoding in Encore, but that doesn't seem to get rid of them.  Funny thing is that if I go back to the timeline in Premiere and just adjust the in and out points of that clips slightly (still keeping the part that had the glitch in the timeline), the glitch will sometimes go away entirely, or sometimes it will just move a few frames forward or back in the same clip.

                 

                I think for any future projects that I know are going to be output to SD I'm just going to downres all my footage before even starting the edit process.  I'll respond back here after my next project (probably a couple of weeks) and let you know if that gets rid of these issues.  Maybe I can save someone else editing AVCHD some headaches.

                • 5. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                  John T Smith CommunityMVP

                  I don't see any mention of your hardware... so it MAY be that your computer is just not "strong" enough to easily edit AVCHD files... which requires AT LEAST a quad-core and an i7 is better

                   

                  Doesn't help you, but My CS5/AVCHD 1st Impressions http://forums.adobe.com/thread/652694?tstart=0 (with a link to the computer I built) describes "smooth as butter" AVCHD editing and DVD making

                   

                  Work through all of the steps (ideas) listed at http://ppro.wikia.com/wiki/Troubleshooting


                  If your problem isn't fixed after you follow all of the steps, report back with ALL OF THE DETAILS asked for in the FINALLY section, the questions at the end of the troubleshooting link... most especially the codec used... see Question 1

                   

                  Read Harm on drive setup http://forums.adobe.com/thread/662972?tstart=0
                  - click the embedded picture in Harm's message to enlarge to reading size
                  - you need AT LEAST 2 drives for video editing, 3 is better
                  - some HD formats work better with (require) RAID

                  • 6. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                    John T Smith CommunityMVP

                    PS - if your computer turns out to not be powerful enough to edit AVCHD...

                     

                    Convert AVCHD to HDV http://forums.adobe.com/thread/390605?tstart=0


                    or use Cineform Neo Scene http://www.cineform.com/neoscene/

                    • 7. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                      Webshark2000 Community Member

                      The computer is pretty powerful.  Here are the specs:

                       

                      Win7 64-bit

                      Core i7 920

                      ASRock X58 Extreme Mobo

                      Radeon HD4870

                      12GB PC3 12800 DDR3 Memory

                      Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card with 3 1TB drives in RAID 5 config

                       

                      Let me know if you see any weak points in this configuration.

                       

                      Thanks.

                      • 8. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                        Ann Bens CommunityMVP

                        There is mention of 60i and 24p footage, which is it and what are your sequence settings.

                        • 9. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                          Webshark2000 Community Member

                          Ann Bens wrote:

                           

                          There is mention of 60i and 24p footage, which is it and what are your sequence settings.

                          Sorry, it's both.  One project was shot in 1920x1080 60i and another was shot in 1280x720 24p.  I get glitches in both projects and I tried exporting the 720 24p project from two different computers, both giving glitches in similar spots.

                           

                          Both are just using the AVCHD presets that match their footage in CS4 and neither have to be rendered when placed on the timeline.

                           

                          The 1080 60i settings are:

                          1920x1080 square pixels (non-anamorphic)

                          16:9 interlaced HD at 29.97 frames/sec

                          48kHz audio

                          Drop-frame Timecode

                          Upper Field First

                           

                          The 720 24p settings are:

                          1280x720 square pixels (non-anamorphic)

                          16:9 progressive-scan HD at 23.976 frames/sec

                          48kHz audio

                           

                          Thanks for the help.

                          • 10. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                            Ann Bens CommunityMVP

                            OK, have you tried a different brand dvd, lower burning speed and a different dvd player?

                            • 11. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                              Webshark2000 Community Member

                              Ann Bens wrote:

                               

                              OK, have you tried a different brand dvd, lower burning speed and a different dvd player?

                              Different DVD player, yes.  Different brand DVDs, yes.  The burning speed couldn't get any lower on one computer I was using because it could only burn a Dual-layer DVD at 2.4x.

                               

                              I don't think it's the burn speed causing the problem because I see the glitches in Encore when I preview the transcoded files.

                              • 12. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                Ann Bens CommunityMVP

                                Did you use max render quality?

                                • 13. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                  Webshark2000 Community Member

                                  I had Encore do the encoding automatically, which filled up a dual-layer DVD even though there was only 2 hours and 27 minutes of footage.  If I had used the "NTSC High quality progressive widescreen" preset it was saying it would have taken around 6GB.

                                   

                                  I just downloaded Premiere CS5 Trial (with Encore included).  I've read that it does a better job with AVCHD.  I'll try exporting the project again with it and let you know if it makes a difference.

                                   

                                  >> Looks like that's not going to work.  The CS5 trial verison doesn't include MPG codecs, so no AVCHD support.

                                   

                                  Message was edited by: Webshark2000

                                  • 14. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                    John T Smith CommunityMVP

                                    The Encore trial will not run until you pay and activate

                                     

                                    And what is NOT in the trial http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/407/kb407938.html

                                    • 15. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                      Ann Bens CommunityMVP

                                      Yes that is a bumber not being able to test CS5.

                                      Back to the glitch. I am running a bit out of ideas

                                      Have you looked at Jeff's tutorial to get HD to SD with CS4?

                                      http://www.bellunevideo.com/tutdetail.php?tutid=10

                                      • 16. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                        Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                        There are a few bits that you haven't followed up.

                                         

                                        To check the effective power of your system, do the PPBM4.  It did not have the same tests as ppbm5, and won't reveal problems as well, but that may be an issue.

                                         

                                        It is not clear to me whether you see the glitches in the workflow prior to reviewing a burned disk?

                                         

                                        Try building to a folder and playing the folder on the computer.  That can help rule out disk quality and burn speed as issues.

                                         

                                        Is the glitch present in any exports from PR?

                                        • 17. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                          Webshark2000 Community Member

                                          Stan Jones wrote:

                                           

                                          To check the effective power of your system, do the PPBM4.  It did not have the same tests as ppbm5, and won't reveal problems as well, but that may be an issue.

                                           

                                          Here's my output info:

                                           

                                          ASRock,  Computer Manufacturer
                                          X58 Extreme,   Computer Model
                                          82.8,  secs Total Benchmark Time
                                          24.1,  secs AVI  Encoding Time
                                          37.7,  secs MPEG Elapsed Time
                                          21,  secs Rendering Time
                                          Intel,    CPU Manufacturer
                                          Core i7 920,    CPU Model
                                          2.67Ghz,    GHz CPU speed
                                          1,    Number of CPU chips
                                          4,    Total Number of Cores
                                          12,    GB RAM
                                          4.2.1,    APP Version PPBM4 DV
                                          Win 7 64bit,    OSVersion
                                          SATA,    OS Disk Interface
                                          320,    GB OS Disk Capacity
                                          7200,    OS Disk Speed
                                          SATA RAID 3,    Project Disk Interface
                                          1000x3 R3,    GB Project Disk Capacity
                                          7200,    Project Disk Speed
                                          Same as Project Disk,    Preview Disk Interface
                                          Same as Project Disk,    GB Preview Disk Capacity
                                          Same as Project Disk,    Preview Disk Speed
                                          Same as Project Disk,    Output Disk Interface
                                          Same as Project Disk,    GB Output Disk Capacity
                                          Same as Project Disk,    Output Disk Speed
                                          Radeon HD 4870,    Graphics Board

                                           

                                          Stan Jones wrote:

                                          It is not clear to me whether you see the glitches in the workflow prior to reviewing a burned disk?

                                           

                                          I'm seeing the glitches in the workflow.  I see them after transcoding the dynamicly linked PPro sequences in Encore and I also see them if I export the timelines to AVI or Mpeg2 files on the hard drive.

                                          • 18. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                            Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

                                            Your MPEG and render results are quite in line with similar systems, not stellar, not worse than expected. However your AVI result is pretty disappointing and my guess is that that is caused to a large extent by the run-of-the-mill OS disk and the 3 disk raid3. Since one disk is reserved for parity, you have only 2 disks available for data storage and with the overhead of raid3, your 3 disks will only perform at around 150-170% the speed of a single disk. You will gain a serious performance boost from adding a 4-th (identical) disk to your raid.

                                             

                                            Since you are running at stock speed, your memory will also run at stock speed, 1066. Decoding AVCHD, scaling to SD and encoding to MPEG2-DVD are all very CPU/memory intensive operations. If you happen to have indexing and/or compression on for any disk, you make the burden even heavier. Have a look at Adobe Forums: Guide for installing and tuning a Vista... and check that you have performed all the tuning tips. It also applies to Win7.

                                             

                                            Maybe this will help getting rid of the glitches.

                                            • 19. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                              elneptico Community Member

                                              yeap i feel your pain man i was nearly to crush my camera on the floor. nobody on this forum could help me with this problem.

                                              this is what i did:

                                               

                                              1. i've transcoded avchd 1080 50i footage in sony vegas 9c to 1440 25i mpeg file

                                              2. edited in premiere cs4

                                              3. exported in adobe media coverter ( the same mpeg file, same properties)

                                              4. send to usb flash memory

                                              5. playback in samsung 1080p hd tv screen by usb 2.0

                                               

                                              Conlusions:

                                               

                                              1. every clip transoded or not, viewed on computer screen in premiere in few media players had some strange making me nervous glitches, scrachtes, lines whatever you call it just happened

                                              2. the same clips transcoded or not, viewed on that tv screen where pure nice footage.

                                               

                                              now i edit in premiere and dont bother about it. thing really matters is good looking clip on hd  tv screen

                                              • 20. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                                Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                                I'm seeing the glitches in the workflow.  ... I also see them if I export the timelines to AVI or Mpeg2 files on the hard drive.


                                                That points away from EN, and back to PR and/or the source.  I am not expert in this area, but even an underpowered system should be able to render out an avi.

                                                 

                                                a) you are sure the glitches are not in the source.

                                                b) the glitches occur at different places?  i.e. it may be more a playback issue than somethign in the stream.  What is the datarate of the mpeg2?  Are the spikes?  I'm forgetting which tool I used to use for that; free version that will still show a spike.

                                                 

                                                Harm, thanks for that analysis - haven't seen ppbm4 for a bit, and still a great tool.

                                                • 21. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                                  Webshark2000 Community Member

                                                  Harm Millaard wrote:

                                                   

                                                  However your AVI result is pretty disappointing and my guess is that that is caused to a large extent by the run-of-the-mill OS disk and the 3 disk raid3. Since one disk is reserved for parity, you have only 2 disks available for data storage and with the overhead of raid3, your 3 disks will only perform at around 150-170% the speed of a single disk. You will gain a serious performance boost from adding a 4-th (identical) disk to your raid.

                                                   

                                                  Wish I could add a 4th, but there is no more room in the the case at all.  The single hard drive that the OS is stored on is a Western Digital WD3200AA 320GB 7,200 SATA.

                                                   

                                                  I can't seem to be able to overclock the CPU/memory with this motherboard.  Every time I try the motherboard refuses to boot (even if I only go up 10% or so).  Of course the system has issues with not wanting to boot even without overclocking.  I'll frequently have to power it off, back on, off, back on to get it to POST if I have to shut it down completely.  I'm thinking that's a motherboard issue.  I'm starting to wish I'd gone with an ASUS for more money than this ASRock, even though Tom's Hardware reviewed it positively.

                                                   

                                                  Stan Jones wrote:

                                                   

                                                  a) you are sure the glitches are not in the source.

                                                  b) the glitches occur at different places?  i.e. it may be more a playback issue than somethign in the stream.  What is the datarate of the mpeg2?  Are the spikes?  I'm forgetting which tool I used to use for that; free version that will still show a spike.

                                                   

                                                  There are no glitches in the original footage when I play it back on the computer using either Premiere, VLC or even Media Player.  The glitches are in the final DVDs because they show up when I play the DVD in different players.

                                                   

                                                  I've tried encoding the Mpeg2 files at different data rates.  I've tried VBR 1.5, 4, 7, but mostly I just let Encore do the encoding automatically.

                                                   

                                                  I need to clarify about the glitches appearing in different places.  If I export a timeline to an AVI or Mpeg2 file and play it back or burn it to a DVD, whatever glitches I see in the file after exporting is what I see when it's played back anywhere (i.e. a different computer, different media players, or burned to a DVD).

                                                   

                                                  The only time the glitches change their location is if I were to re-export the timeline again.  The glitches don't change their location after being exported.

                                                   

                                                  I finally gave up on the two projects I mentioned in this post and lived with the glitches I still had (there were three total in the 1080 60i project, and I'm not sure how many in the other project, but I counted at least 3).  Hopefully the clients either won't notice them or won't be that concerned.

                                                   

                                                  The current project I'm working on was shot 1280x720 @ 24p.  This time I used TMPGEnc to downres all of the the footage to 720x480 Widescreen before starting the edit process.  I'm hoping this will get rid of the glitches.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks.

                                                  • 22. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                                    KarizmaticMojo Community Member

                                                    Hello. Did you end up figuring out how to get rid of the glitches? I am also getting glitches when I export. Everything plays fine in the timeline but, when I export to Mpeg-2, I get glitches where the video freezes for just a split second and then continues playing again. I've only tried playing the clips in Windows Media Player and Windows Media Classic player but, I doubt the player is the culprit. Please help me.

                                                    • 23. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                                      Webshark2000 Community Member

                                                      The last project I mentioned in this thread did work fine after downresing the footage using TMPGenc.

                                                       

                                                      However, since my last post we have upgraded to Premiere Pro CS5 and I haven't experienced any glitches when editing with AVCHD footage, even natively.  Apparently whatever issues CS4 had with AVCHD have been fixed with CS5.

                                                      • 24. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                                        sheggle Community Member

                                                        AVCHD demands a serious amount from the operating system.  I managed to do a work around for one of my clients whose advertisement required a lot of slides to come and go from the ad, much like you might do in a power point but using a video of a person shot against a white background.  It took a painful number of tries to get a clean export as an mpeg file, which I exported using AME. But they wanted the final copy to be loaded online as an mp4 and I could not get AME to export that cleanly with Audio and Video matching.  My workaround was to use SWITCH to convert it from one video type to mp4.  I lost definition in the process but at least the audio and video matched.

                                                         

                                                        My computer started playing up with an intermittant fault so we had to look at the whole set up. We learnt in the write ups promoting CS5 that Adobe acknowledged that there were issues in CS4 that they never entirely dealt with and CS5 was much better.  We also found out that most computers struggle handling AVCHD using only the operating system and that CS5 had built into its programming a method of using the more up to date graphics cards to take the processing load of rendering and transcoding so we purchased CS5 and had to buy a graphics card which substantially dealt with all of our glitch problems. Since then we haven't had to do a serious edit so we haven't really put it through it's paces but our initial playing and testing shows huge benefits.

                                                        CS5 using our reasonably upto date graphics renders AVCD natively on the fly and saves a huges amount of time just rendering stuff.  It's a massive improvement.

                                                         

                                                        About our computer, the faults that began to appear still continued and have become much worse so that we've had to resort to a new computer that will include 16Gb ram, a 240Gb Solid State hard drive for operating system and the Premiere Programme.  I'm looking forward to getting it back and putting it through it's paces.

                                                        • 25. Re: AVCHD output to 16:9 DVD has glitches
                                                          Webshark2000 Community Member

                                                          sheggle wrote:

                                                           

                                                          I managed to do a work around for one of my clients whose advertisement required a lot of slides to come and go from the ad, much like you might do in a power point but using a video of a person shot against a white background.

                                                          That sounds like a project that would be better suited for After Effects.  Premiere doesn't handle a lot of moving graphics and effects anywhere near as

                                                          well as After Effects does.

                                                          sheggle wrote:

                                                           

                                                          We also found out that most computers struggle handling AVCHD using only the operating system and that CS5 had built into its programming a method of using the more up to date graphics cards to take the processing load of rendering and transcoding so we purchased CS5 and had to buy a graphics card which substantially dealt with all of our glitch problems.


                                                          I think you're talking about CUDA, which Adobe has started to utilize in some of their software.  It only works with certain NVIDIA graphics cards.  You can read more about it here http://www.hd4pc.com/techblog/2010/06/03/cs5-with-cuda/

                                                          sheggle wrote:

                                                           

                                                          About our computer, the faults that began to appear still continued and have become much worse so that we've had to resort to a new computer that will include 16Gb ram, a 240Gb Solid State hard drive for operating system and the Premiere Programme.  I'm looking forward to getting it back and putting it through it's paces.

                                                          Here are the specs on the computer we're using, and it's been working wonderfully with CS5 and AVCHD, so far:

                                                           

                                                          Win 7 64-bit OS

                                                          500GB WD 7200rpm HDD for OS

                                                          ASRock X58 Extreme Motherboard

                                                          Intel core i7 920

                                                          Radeon HD4870

                                                          12GB PC3 12800 DDR3 Memory

                                                          Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card with 3 1TB drives in RAID 5 config