22 Replies Latest reply: Oct 22, 2010 11:46 AM by JSS1138 RSS

    Not enough space for navigation menus

    h2ofun Community Member

      Okay, I have a SD project trying to make into a DVD.  I am using dynamic link.  It says it will take 8.54 gig for a DL media.

      After it transcodes, it gives me an error saying not enough space for the navigation.  When I say ok, it fails but then says the project takes 9 gig, which clearly does not fit into 8.54

       

      When I look into the transcoded sources, I see the  .m2v at 8,202,602kb.  I see the ac3 at 393,505kb.  Now, this is not the 4 menus I made.

       

      So, everything is on automatic.  Seems encore is encoding the video too large and not seeing the menus.

       

      Any thoughts?

       

      This is encore in CS5

        • 1. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
          JSS1138 CommunityMVP

          The only reason I can think of for this is that the menus were added after the transcoding took place, so they were not included in Encore's original space calculations.

          • 2. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
            h2ofun Community Member

            Interesting. I do not remember.  So, I will reset, kill off the menus, and then add them and see what happens.

             

            Thanks

            • 3. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
              Stan Jones CommunityMVP

              I believe Jim is right and that transcoding after menus are done will fix this.

               

              So, everything is on automatic.

              To emphasize this, if you have everything set to automatic and transcode before doing menus, particularly where you are using motion menus, EN will fill up your disk with movies, leaving no room for menus.

               

              When you say "I will reset, kill off the menus, and then add them and see what happens" what do you mean by reset?  FYI, I think all you need to do is to keep your menus as you have them, "revert to original" on your transcoded movies, keep them set as automatic, then transcode them.

              • 4. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                h2ofun Community Member

                Stan, I have tried tons of times now.  I tried the revert to original.  I have tried to start over.  But no matter what I do, nothing works.

                I have one menu, which has 12 picture thumb nails on it.  I do dynamic link, and it puts the size at 8.54 gig, 3 meg left over, and 546k(?)

                for dvd-rom content. (I have NONE).  My 4 hour project has 48 chapter points.  I then make 3 more of the menus with create menu (?) and get

                4 menus, each with 12 thumb nails from the timeline.  Nothing changes in the DVD size which seems weird.

                 

                Everytime I make, I get the same error, like it never saw the menus.  Then when I say ok, it changes the size to 9 gig, which is what I see in the folders.

                 

                Weird

                • 5. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                  JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                  And the Transcode setting for DVD is at Automatic?

                  • 6. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                    anuraggrwl Community Member

                    Change the DVD Transcode settings from Automatic to NTSC DV High quality 8Mb 2 pass and then transcode.

                     

                    You will be able to see the reduced file size in disc info.

                     

                    Transcoding the media using aborve preset will futher compress the data without loosing much quality, leaving more space on disc. if still the error shows up try with 7Mb and then 4 Mb.

                     

                    Try this as a work around, Encore should  be automatically changing the transcode settings to fit the media on the disc, looks like the automatic feature is not working. I will try this and let you know the results.

                    • 7. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                      Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                      3 meg left over, and 546k(?) for dvd-rom content.


                      3 meg is a tiny cushion.  Granted, EN is setting that based on automatic transcoding.

                       

                      The 546 is some kind of overhead, it is always there, even with no ROM added.

                       

                      I have one menu, which has 12 picture thumb nails on it.

                      Did you render this menu before transcoding the assets.  Frankly, I think EN should include this in its computations, but I would elimnate this as a source of variation.

                       

                      Everytime I make,

                      What do you mean?  I'm wondering whether you are referring to "building" or whether you are transcoding the assets before building (when then transcodes them as an early step).

                       

                      Odd possibilities:

                       

                      What is the name of the disk (in the build tab)?  If there are any spaces, remove them or use underlines.

                       

                      It seems to me there was a problem where EN could not find a good place for a layer break, but I think that was a different error.  I believe there are some potential issues in how movies are added to the project.

                      • 8. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                        Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                        Transcoding the media using aborve preset will futher compress the data without loosing much quality, leaving more space on disc. if still the error shows up try with 7Mb and then 4 Mb.


                        I like this as a workaround/troubleshooting method.  You might use mediainfo or similar to see what EN has used for the bitrate.

                         

                        I will try this and let you know the results.

                        Great!

                        • 9. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                          h2ofun Community Member

                          Yep, DVD setttings have always been set to automatic.

                          • 10. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                            h2ofun Community Member

                            When I have on automatic, it says 8.54 used even before I add my 4 menus.  (This is before trying to trancode.)

                             

                            If I set the transcoding manually to the lowest, DV low quality 4 MB 1 pass, it then says the project will take 9.5 gig, it goes UP in size no matter which of the manual settings I try.

                             

                            I have never seen anything like this.  The project is one single 4 hour 40 minute AVI file.

                            • 11. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                              h2ofun Community Member

                              I agree the 3 meg cushion, if real is small, but if it worked,

                              who cares.

                               

                              Not sure what render a menu means.  I always get the entire project 100% done and ready before I even do the "build" step, which then does the timeline rendering.

                               

                              Yep, I meant build.

                               

                              I never transcode anything pre build.  I had learned this lesson in CS4.  But, sure does not seem the size calculations and transcoding settings are working in CS5 for me.  I know if I just used a m2v file, and made it the right size, I could get to work. But the whole reason to use the dynamic link is to avoid, what in  the past has been a multi step encoding process to not have to large once the menus or slides were added.

                               

                               

                              The destination file is F:\tape_md_1\DL_videos_1984_A_home_videos_cs5.iso

                               

                              I have made lot of projects with this exact same name structure, so that would not seem to be the issue.

                               

                              What makes no sense is when I manually put the trancoding to the minimum quality setting, it says the file size is now 9.5 gig.

                              How is this possible?  And I assume we have no way to know what settings "automatic" were using?

                              • 12. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                                h2ofun Community Member

                                I would love to try the suggested troubleshooting method, but nothing I seem to select makes the project file

                                size smaller that I have been able to select yet.


                                • 13. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                                  Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                  The project is one single 4 hour 40 minute AVI file.


                                  Re my comment above: "It seems to me there was a problem where EN could not find a good place for a layer break, but I think that was a different error.  I believe there are some potential issues in how movies are added to the project."

                                   

                                  This theory says that EN needs a timeline end, a chapter break or something to place the layer break.  The dual layer limit is half per side or somethign like that.  Try splitting your movie in half (in PR - nest a sequence or something), and see what happens.

                                   

                                  I'll try to find the thread in which this was discussed.

                                   

                                  Edit: I did not find this yet, but a diagnostic step might to buld to a FOLDER not an ISO.  This avoids having to set the layer break (or so I understand).  Anyway, see what it does.

                                   

                                  Edit2: The thread I was remembering was re Bluray and an error that there as not enough space on the media (when there was).  But each "side" had to be less than 25Gb.  I would still try the build to folder.

                                  • 14. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                                    Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                    Not sure what render a menu means.


                                    When you have a motion menu, it can't be previewed unless it has been rendered.  You do this under File -> Render (I think), or there is a button in the preview window.  I don't think this is the problem, but who knows!

                                     

                                    The destination file is F:\tape_md_1\DL_videos_1984_A_home_videos_cs5.iso

                                    I'm referring to the project name (or whatever it is called); it becomes the DVD volume label.  It is not the file name.

                                     

                                    I assume we have no way to know what settings "automatic" were using?

                                     

                                    Locate the transcoded files in the encore project folders.  (File date can help narrow this down if you have a lot of files from various activity.)  Use mediainfo or a similar program to see what it says the bitrate is.

                                    • 15. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                                      h2ofun Community Member

                                      Stan, I tried building to a folder.  Comes back saying not enough space on the disc.

                                       

                                      I have been using the same process on other equal length projects, but these are all been single mpeg files for my HDV, rather than SD AVI like this one that will not work is.

                                       

                                      Before I transcoded in automatic mode, it sais used 8.54 so gave me no error.

                                       


                                      I now look at the project, the timeline is transcoded and it says the project takes over 9 gig.  So, when I try to build, it get an error right away too large.

                                       

                                      My folder is empty so it never even started to put anything in it.

                                      • 16. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                                        h2ofun Community Member

                                        My menus are totally static, no motion, so nothing to render,  Just thumbnail static pictures for each chapter link.

                                         

                                        The disc name is MD 1985

                                         

                                        If I use VLC statistics for the media information while playing the m2v 8.2 gig file, it is ranging around 3.5 to 4.5 Mb/s input bitrate.  (Assuming this is the bitrate you are asking about.) Does not seem real high.

                                        • 17. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                                          Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                          The disc name is MD 1985


                                          Change it to MD1985 (i.e. no spaces) and try to build.  Boy does that sound crazy!  Fixed a similar problem (I think it was similar) for at least one user.

                                           

                                          If I use VLC statistics for the media information while playing the m2v 8.2 gig file, it is ranging around 3.5 to 4.5 Mb/s input bitrate.  (Assuming this is the bitrate you are asking about.) Does not seem real high.

                                          Not high; quality-wise, it is low.  But I was only looking for a shortcut to the experiment proposed: If you revert to original and switch to manual settings, you might start with something lower.

                                          • 18. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                                            h2ofun Community Member

                                            Will try the name change.

                                             

                                            When I went to the lowest manual encoding, it increased the image size to over 9 gig, so I was dead before I could even try to start.  Very weird

                                            • 19. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                                              Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                              When I went to the lowest manual encoding, it increased the image size to over 9 gig,


                                              Are you saying that you transcoded it and looked at the size, or that the estimate in the build panel changed?

                                               

                                              I'm not sure what you mean by the lowest manual encoding.  Are you talking about a preset?  Go into "edit quality settings" and set a cbr of 3.  What does that do?

                                              • 20. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                                                h2ofun Community Member

                                                In the panel that says disc info, it says size use, left over and DVD-rom

                                                useage.  Before I transcode, it said 8.54 used.

                                                 

                                                After it transcoded and failed, the used amount jumps to over 9 gig as the estimate, which I am assuming is correct with EN encoding at too high

                                                of a level to fit it all.

                                                 

                                                When I take the encoding off automatic, and manually select the lowest quality level, it then gives the pre trancoding estimate over 9 gig.

                                                 

                                                I have yet to find a setting that actually drops the size of the pre transcoding.

                                                • 21. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                                                  Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                                  When I take the encoding off automatic, and manually select the lowest quality level, it then gives the pre trancoding estimate over 9 gig.

                                                  I don't think you responded to this from my last post.

                                                   

                                                  I'm not sure what you mean by the lowest manual encoding.  Are you talking about a preset?  Go into "edit quality settings" and set a cbr of 3.  What does that do?

                                                  • 22. Re: Not enough space for navigation menus
                                                    JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                                    If I set the transcoding manually to the lowest, DV low quality 4 MB 1 pass, it then says the project will take 9.5 gig, it goes UP in size no matter which of the manual settings I try.

                                                     

                                                    That means you simply have too much video for the disk.  There is a minimum bitrate allowed.  If even at that minimum it's too large, you will have no choice but to take some video out.