12 Replies Latest reply on Jun 6, 2006 7:10 AM by Newsgroup_User

    Why does the ActiveX control that installs your player install Yahoo! toolbar without asking?

    Ninlar
      Why would the ActiveX control that installs the Macromedia Flash player install the Yahoo! toolbar along with it without asking for the the user's permission? I don't want that crap on my machine.
        • 1. Re: Why does the ActiveX control that installs your player install Yahoo! toolbar without asking?
          Level 7
          It does ask .. you must not have read the page and turned off the checkbox
          to say you don't want it. So you did give permission.

          So its your fault if you install the toolbar without wanting it .. you
          should have read the page before downloading. Caveat Emptor.
          --
          Jeckyl


          • 2. Re: Why does the ActiveX control that installs your player install Yahoo! toolbar without asking?
            Pete_Hughes
            Jeckyl I appreciate what you say, but with all due respect that is a lawyer's response. It is like blaming people for driving their cars into potholes. After awhile that isn't good enough and the city starts to fix the potholes. Our customers skip over or misunderstand the fine print, or just can't see or process information as well as a young database developer.

            In this case Macromedia and Yahoo have made some kind of bundling deal. The format and logic of the install page were undoubtedly agreed to in advance. It was a marketing decision to take the lumps, perhaps out of fear for competition breathing down their necks.
            • 3. Re: Why does the ActiveX control that installs your player install Yahoo! toolbar without asking?
              Level 7
              > It is like blaming people for driving their cars into potholes.

              Now .. if the road had a sign on it saying "This road has potholes, please
              processed if you want to drive through potholes, otherwise drive on this
              other road" .. and THEN the people chose to drive on the road with potholes,
              it would indeed be their fault. That's closer to the situation here.

              > Our customers skip over or misunderstand the fine print,
              > or just can't see or process information as well as a young
              > database developer.

              That is their problem then. Maybe they need some education on how to use
              computers and/or the internet, and about reading things instead of blindly
              clicking (just like you hsould read a contract before you sign it). Or
              maybe (if they are your customers) they need you to give them instructions
              on what to do so that they do NOT install the toolbar.

              > In this case Macromedia and Yahoo have made some kind of bundling deal.

              Yes .. that's fairly obvious. But regardless, it is the users choice
              whether they want the yahoo toolbar or not with the player. You are not in
              any way forced you to have it.

              > The format and logic of the install page were undoubtedly agreed to in
              > advance.

              Quite likely .. that is why the default is to install the toolbar with the
              player.

              But it is still your choice if you say to install with that setting turned
              on.
              --
              Jeckyl


              • 4. Re: Why does the ActiveX control that installs your player install Yahoo! toolbar without asking?
                toulouse2k
                Speaking personally, I think it's a shame that Adobe is doing this. Between the Active X inconvenience(not Adobe's fault) and now this piggyback crap(Adobe's fault)....I have to really wonder about the long term health of Flash. I have already begun changing my websites to wean them off Flash utiliies. I hate this. My clients are older folks and it is very difficult to get them to upgrade, as it is. To use the pothole analogy, mine are the elderly drivers that read the signs...but due to poor motor skills....still hit the potholes.
                • 5. Re: Why does the ActiveX control that installs your player install Yahoo! toolbar without asking?
                  Level 7
                  > To use the pothole analogy, mine are the elderly drivers
                  > that read the signs...but due to poor motor skills....still hit the
                  > potholes.

                  Hehehe.

                  Note that there was quite a bit of negative feedback when Macromedia first
                  started this partnership .. it died down fairly quickly when people realised
                  it was indeed an optional install, and that if Macromedia wanted to do some
                  sort of cross promotion with yahoo, that was up to them and it didn't really
                  impact on the rest of the world that much at all .. it was not required and
                  flash player still worked (or didn't work) just the same as before.

                  Personally .. I don't like Yahoo at all, and wouldn't install their toolbars
                  if you paid me. Oh .. ok .. I might if you paid me .. but not for free
                  --
                  Jeckyl


                  • 6. Re: Why does the ActiveX control that installs your   player install   Yahoo! toolbar without asking?
                    Level 7
                    The yahoo toolbar has been an option for a couple years - only recently has the issue begun to
                    surface just a little - but during this time the flahs player continues to be the most downloaded
                    plugin in internet histlry and flash 8 downloaded at a much faster rate than previous versions. The
                    toolbar is not always an option during download either - i for one have a hard time trying to find
                    it - i go to the page it is but see no mention of the toolbar - none of my clients ever have and
                    personally the yahoo toolbar is simply not an issue - i think i might just speak for the majority.

                    ******************************************
                    --> **Adobe Certified Expert**
                    --> www.mudbubble.com
                    --> www.keyframer.com




                    toulouse2k wrote:
                    > Speaking personally, I think it's a shame that Adobe is doing this. Between the
                    > Active X inconvenience(not Adobe's fault) and now this piggyback crap(Adobe's
                    > fault)....I have to really wonder about the long term health of Flash. I have
                    > already begun changing my websites to wean them off Flash utiliies. I hate
                    > this. My clients are older folks and it is very difficult to get them to
                    > upgrade, as it is. To use the pothole analogy, mine are the elderly drivers
                    > that read the signs...but due to poor motor skills....still hit the potholes.
                    >
                    • 7. Re: Why does the ActiveX control that installs your player install Yahoo! toolbar without asking?
                      Pete_Hughes Level 1
                      toulouse2k, I thought about older users too - it is a real education watching these guys. But they have needs and money as much as anybody else, and many would hate to see them excluded with contempt from using the Internet.

                      I also thought of a phrase frequently heard in the late 1980's: 'If you are too stupid to use a DOS [or UNIX] command line you shouldn't be using a computer'. I would hate to be caught saying the same sort of thing today.
                      • 8. Re: Why does the ActiveX control that installs your player install Yahoo! toolbar without asking?
                        Level 7
                        What contempt? Noone is saying they should be excluded from using the
                        internet. But if they do the 'wrong' things, then it is caveat emptor. If
                        an older person gets in a car and drives the wrong way down a street and
                        kills people, we don't say its the fault of the pedestrians. People do need
                        to be responsible for what they do on the internet. If they aren't capable
                        of that, then it is a bad decision for them to be using the internet without
                        assistance .. whether that is because they are old, or young, or whatever.


                        • 9. Re: Why does the ActiveX control that installs your player install Yahoo! toolbar without asking?
                          Randy Miller
                          Selling out was nothing new to Macromedia. Adobe flashed the cash, and Macromedia jumped on that too. Not that I want to complain about that deal since I use both equally and prefer them to work together. Unfortuantely Macromedia Captivate and Macromedia Flash does not work together let alone Adobe and Macromedia. Crazy enough, Captivate was supposed to support Macromedia Flash MX 2004 (and vice versa) which it does to a limited extent but then Adobe came out with Macromedia Flash 8 and it has absolutely NO support for Captivate at all (and vice versa). I had to reload Flash MX 2004 on my machine for Captivate to even recognize that the Flash application was there (and I paid for an "upgrade" to Flash 8). Macromedia was at one time the world's web innovator but they are now producing applications that do not even work with each other. I don't know if Adobe plans to fix these problems with Captivate and/or Flash or not. As for Yahoo I have not noticed it as an issue. But I do notice the real problems I have mentioned and I would hope to high heaven Adobe would do something about it. If they are going to sell upgrades should'nt they actually be an upgrade not a downgrade with a purchase price?
                          • 10. Why does the ActiveX control that installs your player install Yahoo! toolbar without asking?
                            Randy Miller Level 1
                            (accidental repost of the same message- with no apparent way of deleting it only editing it - go figure).
                            • 11. Re: Why does the ActiveX control that installs your   player install   Yahoo! toolbar without asking?
                              Level 7
                              with all due respect, much of what you say is pretty inaccurate:


                              > Selling out was nothing new to Macromedia.
                              I'm not sure what you mean by that? You make it sound like they "sold out" often. To whom? To what?
                              I never saw it that way and I have been using MM products for years.


                              Adobe flashed the cash, and
                              > Macromedia jumped on that too.
                              You really put that in the most crudest of ways. So you don't think it was a smart aquisition
                              carefully planned by both companies for the benefit of the themselves, us and the industry as a whole?



                              Not that I want to complain about that deal
                              > since I use both equally and prefer them to work together.
                              Exactly. Now many of the apps we all use will eventually be integrated - bliss ain't it? Was this
                              truly selling out because adobe "flashed some cash" or was it just a really smart move in a
                              looking-forward kind of way?

                              Unfortuantely
                              > Macromedia Captivate and Macromedia Flash does not work together let alone
                              > Adobe and Macromedia.
                              Very strong statements without any backing up. What do you mean Adobe and MM do not work together?
                              Are you a disgruntled employee seeing things on the "inside" here?


                              > then Adobe came out with Macromedia Flash 8
                              They did? Actually they did not. Flash 8 was developed/supported by Macromedia. The aquistion wasn't
                              official when Flash 8 was being developed. Completely inaccurate statement.


                              > and it has absolutely NO support
                              > for Captivate at all (and vice versa).

                              Really? Have you tried to contact support and have had no response?

                              I had to reload Flash MX 2004 on my
                              > machine for Captivate to even recognize that the Flash application was there
                              > (and I paid for an "upgrade" to Flash 8).
                              Not sure about your particular setup, sounds like you found a solution. Don;t think because this
                              happened to you it was designed by MM to work this way. Many things can go wrong across the myriad
                              setups people have and use. If someone crashes it doesn't mean we all crash.

                              Macromedia was at one time the
                              > world's web innovator but they are now producing applications that do not even
                              > work with each other.
                              Another strong and inaccurate statment. Are you still talking about Captivate and MX? it sounds like
                              you are talking about all MM products. They all work pretty darn well together on this end and on
                              many machines I have used them on. Why do you think Adobe purchased MM? Perhaps because they were
                              always the leading innovator for the web (my opinion of course).

                              I don't know if Adobe plans to fix these problems with
                              > Captivate and/or Flash or not. As for Yahoo I have not noticed it as an issue.
                              > But I do notice the real problems I have mentioned and I would hope to high
                              > heaven Adobe would do something about it. If they are going to sell upgrades
                              > should'nt they actually be an upgrade not a downgrade with a purchase price?
                              If *who* plans to sell upgrades? Adobe? And why are you experiencing upgrades that you consider
                              downgrades? In what way? Performance? Technically? Features? What programs? All of them? Which ones
                              do you use? Which ones are you upgrading to and finding out that they are "downgrades"? Can you back
                              any of this up with concrete examples?
                              • 12. Re: Why does the ActiveX control that installs your   player install   Yahoo! toolbar without asking?
                                Level 7
                                > Unfortuantely
                                > Macromedia Captivate and Macromedia Flash does not work together let alone
                                > Adobe and Macromedia.

                                I think I understand what you really meant - although it should have been worded in a way to avoid
                                being misunderstood. You are complaining that MM and Adobe *products* do not work together. Well
                                that is pretty much a "round peg in square hole" thought process isn't it? I mean, up until now MM
                                and Adobe were completely different companies making completely different products. Expecting them
                                to be integrated is asking a bit much.
                                It would be like driving a Ford and buying Chevy parts and expecting them to bolt right on perfectly
                                right?
                                I'm afraid the world doesn't work that way unless the 2 companies get together to make a much
                                stronger and well-integrated suite of products for the benefit of all. If this is selling out, then
                                sell sell sell pretty please and thank you.