17 Replies Latest reply: Dec 11, 2010 10:19 AM by JSS1138 RSS

    PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors

    davidbeisner2010 Community Member

      Backstory: I was asked this morning to teach a crash course in Premiere CS5 for the students in the film program at my school in the Introduction to Editing class who have been using FCP. They have to edit several projects using RED footage, and rather than spend a huge amount of time transcoding it to a format which FCP can work with, the prof has just decided to have his students use PPro CS5 (which is also on their editing computers). Since the prof doesn't use PPro, he's asked me to teach the class for him.

       

      I created a very brief crash course powerpoint to assist me in giving them the fundamentals of the program, and supply them with a resource to refer back to as they work on their projects after class is over tomorrow morning. I created this for students who already have done some editing in an NLE, and so don't need to be taught WHAT everything is and HOW to cut footage and put together a timeline. This is just to introduce editors to PPro CS5 who are not already familiar with the PPro workflow.

       

      Anyway, I wondered if some of you gurus would want to take a look at it and give me your feedback on what I've covered well, what I might have missed, and any other thoughts y'all had.

       

      You can view a PDF of the document at www.bryan.edu/pprocs5 The viewer will bring it up embedded in the page at about 40-50%, so you'd be best off to click the download link and open it in Acrobat where you can go full size with it.

        • 1. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
          Todd_Kopriva Adobe Employee

          I just read through this course. It's quite good for a crash course.

           

          My only suggestion for improvement is about the slide at the end that suggests resources for learning Premiere Pro. I'd recommend this page in addition to what you already have. Note that the free tutorials on Lynda.com are also on AdobeTV, since they are one of our partners, but there are also a lot of other video tutorials on our site.

          • 2. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
            davidbeisner2010 Community Member

            Thanks, Todd... I'll definitely take note of those links!

            • 3. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
              shooternz Community Member

              Looked at your Tutorial and my comment is that you stepped right past actually EDITING ....and straight into FX

               

              ie. Editing - selection and use of the part of the shot that tells the  story. (Setting In and Out Points, targeting tracks etc...)

              • 4. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                Todd_Kopriva Adobe Employee

                I agree with shooternz, but I thought that that was a deliberate choice to jump into things that were significantly different in Premiere Pro---since David said that these students already know editing in general.

                • 5. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                  davidbeisner2010 Community Member

                  That's correct, Todd... I did intentially skip past the "how-to" of editing because they already know how to do all that stuff pretty well.

                  If they have questions during class tomorrow on specific points, I can hit those pretty quickly and, since they already know it, it should stick better than this stuff, much of which they haven't learned yet (like codecs, CC, etc...)

                  • 6. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                    davidbeisner2010 Community Member

                    Thanks for the input... I went ahead and added in three slides going over how to set in/out points in the source monitor and bring the footage to the timeline. I also added a slide at the very beginning (before media browser) which I'll use to show them the layout of the whole program.

                    • 7. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                      Community Member

                      Dave,

                      Great presentation... I have cs3 and I even saved it for myself for when I upgrade to cs5 ( someday )...

                       

                      Maybe say something about "saving" the project after it's been created..mention maybe that it will auto save at some point but that sometimes its good to save ( and maybe "save as" ) when doing something really taxing to the project...in case it gets unhappy and stops working ( crash)..

                      And maybe mention that sometimes it takes time for assets to conform and being patient and waiting for it to do that is the best practice...??

                       

                       

                      nice job u did

                       

                      time to go out and eat some grass

                       

                      ps...

                       

                      dont know how cs5 on mac handles red, but you know how fcp uses the lower res mov files sometimes ?? on my pc with red I cant do that with cs3...dont know about cs5...I use redcine x to export red raw and THEN put into cs3...so I dont know how your workflow would be different ( how cs5 on mac handles stuff ) ...but if there are differences between fcp and cs5 on mac ( re: those mov files ) you might mention that ??

                       

                      pps

                      might even mention that there is a redcine x for mac at the red website...if they want to check out what it can do "prior" to import to cs5 ( I guess depending on project size and the platform's ( Hard drive size etc ) potential ( power etc ) and the final product

                       

                      In other words, if utlimately going to DVD it might make sense to use redcine x to export the raw at a lower res for editing so a large project is faster in the editor ....know what I mean ?

                      • 8. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                        davidbeisner2010 Community Member

                        Thanks for the input!

                         

                        I actually taught hem REDCINE-X last week so that they could use it to export their files to an intermediate codec that FCP would understand, and preserve the new colorspace. Unfortunately these computers are so slow that the export process was gonna take nearly a week for all the files they need to work with, so the prof opted to swtich over to PPro midstream since it can handle the raw 4k and supports the new colorspace.

                         

                        I didn't mention the saving thing... forgot about it; but the conforming issue did come up and we were able to talk about that in class!

                         

                        The class went okay, I guess... I don't know what it is about students these days, but most of them (like all but one) weren't really paying very good attention and they were just sorta goofing off, talking amongst themselves, etc... made it really frustrating to teach this platform!

                         

                        Oh well.

                        • 9. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                          the_wine_snob CommunityMVP
                          The class went okay, I guess... I don't know what it is about students these days, but most of them (like all but one) weren't really paying very good attention and they were just sorta goofing off, talking amongst themselves, etc... made it really frustrating to teach this platform!

                           

                          I have observed similar. If I can get just one student to ask a few questions, rather than give me a "whatever" attitude, I feel that I have complete success on my hands. Even amongst professionals, learning something that can benefit their bottom line, there is a ton of apathy afoot. At first, I thought that it was just be being a horrible teacher, but I'd observe the same thing in seminars, by some pretty dynamic people. Most of the attendees would spend the class time texting, or doing something else. As soon as the Q&A started, they'd all just shuffle out of the auditorium, and the same 20 folk would gather for the next hour, asking questions, while 100 would head to the nearest Starbucks to text some more.

                           

                          If you got more than one to respond, you have done better, than I am usually able to.

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                            Community Member

                            hmmm

                             

                            I had a couple friends using fcp with red and I thought it automatically saw the mov file you choose and created the intermediate prores file depending on which of the mov files you chose to use...

                             

                            But they were using powerful computers I think...interesting....

                             

                            I think their fcp program on mac saw the color profile from the camera in the dir to left and under each "clip" folder is the little mov file "pointers"..

                            this doesnt work on pc so sorry I'm not much into the facts here...but they didnt have to use redcine x and it was fast for them

                            screen1.jpg

                            • 11. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                              davidbeisner2010 Community Member

                              Interesting... I'll have to check into that and see if I can make that work. I wasn't aware of that workflow, and haven't tried it. However, the skill level of these students (and their prof) makes me worry about letting them work with proxies... I can't imagine trying to explain how a proxy works, especially with the difficulty they had in understanding the concept of color science!

                              • 12. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                                Community Member

                                Yeah, sorry I dont know more about it, but I use pc and cs3..

                                 

                                Just to re-iterate..I use redcine to knock 2k down to 1280x720..which my computer can handle...otherwise I would ( with good computer and cs5) just edit the raw file ....is weird but the raw is compressed and when I export from redcine using QT animation codec it makes LARGER files in byte count than the raw file...but my computer can handle the size (dimension) OK...so far its working OK for me..

                                 

                                With the FCP stuff that I've just seen in a casual way ( people showing me kinda quickly, like when I picked up the red camera from someone who had it and he had the HD SDI hooked up to a monitor and his computer ( mac with FCP on it ) ---this was a video guy in my film union.

                                 

                                Basically his FCP just automatically saw the red footage ( maybe due to a plug in from red ? ) and creates the prores file ( digital intermediate) and all that was automatic...he didnt do anything but drag the file he chose from the CF card to his computer

                                 

                                I could call him or write email if you want me to ask him more exactly what he does ??  How it works ?? Or put you two in touch with each other...?

                                 

                                Theres one other guy in NC ( owner of this place ... Bryan .... cinemanix.com ) who has red and used cs5 and FCP...that would know this stuff if you want me to ask him...

                                He is usually busy as heck though sooo, no guarantee he would answer quickly...

                                 

                                It just seemed to me that the FCP route for long projects with less powerful MAC computers was sorta easy to deal with..

                                 

                                and the export was easy too...from FCP...as the prores is already pointing at the raw file

                                 

                                Good luck experimenting etc

                                • 13. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                                  davidbeisner2010 Community Member

                                  Thanks for the info... The owner of the RED camera we were using edits with FCP and mentioned something to me about a really easy editing workflow with the proxies, but he's not expounded. I'm sure he's referring to this same thing. I'll have to ask him about it. The biggest issue for the film department here is that the color space seemed to be all off, regardless of what they imported. Perhpas they just have an outdated version of FCP? That wouldn't surprise me at all... I had to get our IT department to update from 5.0.0 to 5.0.2 yesterday... now I've got to get them to go to 5.0.3 for us!

                                  • 14. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                                    Community Member

                                    hehe..

                                    never ending ...upgrading and stuff...I just spent half a day deleting a bunch of test stuff and then defragmenting my drives..thats  another constant in computer land I guess..

                                     

                                    If you go here and clck on "all about red" and scroll down...youll see samples..maybe what you were looking at was the raw color space and not the broadcast color space ( rec709?

                                    http://cinemanix.com/

                                     

                                    about rec 709 ...

                                    http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/242/1160

                                     

                                    anyway, I just wrote email to Bryan...asking him about workflow ....but if he's busy it could go into cyberspace beyond Pluto

                                    • 15. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                                      davidbeisner2010 Community Member

                                      Thanks for the links!

                                      • 16. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                                        Community Member

                                        Hiya,

                                        Bryan wrote back   ( cinemanix.com  ) .....said this -------

                                         

                                        ------------

                                        I am in San Fran this week going insane, but I will be back late  Sunday.

                                         

                                        The RED-FCP process is a delicate one.  FCP hasn't kept up with  the 
                                        rest of the world in terms of technology  unfortunately.

                                         

                                        Basically, you will have to log-transfer the RED R3D files  into Final 
                                        Cut....FCP wants everything in the Apple ProRes  format.

                                         

                                        Let me get my head wrapped around this and I will get back to  you 
                                        early next week.

                                         

                                        Cheers,
                                        Bryan

                                        ---------------------------

                                        will keep you posted

                                         

                                        Rod

                                        '

                                        • 17. Re: PPro CS5 Crash Course for Non-Linear Editors
                                          JSS1138 Community Member

                                          I'm providing this feedback as I view the presentation, without having gone over others' comments, so please forgive if there is any overlap.

                                           

                                          First thing I noticed is the font.  In some places, it is a bit hard to see clearly.  I'd recommend a simple drop shadow to help your text stand out from the background image.

                                           

                                          Next thing I noticed was on slide 32, on how to export.  If the sequence isn't selected, the Export option will be grayed out.  You show it highlighted in the image, but it may be important to say it in words as well, lest someone has the bin or effects pane selected and can't do what the slide says.

                                           

                                          On slide 33 I see a text comment that I'd fundamentally disagree with.  Choosing Match Sequence Settings will not ALWAYS give the best possible output, which I'd define as "visually lossless".  That could mean using DPX files, Uncompressed AVI, or some other visually lossless codec like Lagarith, UT, Cineform, etc.  Anything that is NOT visually lossless will NOT be the best possible output.  A better phrasing might be, "will give the closet match to the source media, which may or may not be what you want."

                                           

                                          That's it.  Otherwise, very well done.