19 Replies Latest reply: Dec 16, 2010 8:51 AM by Bill Hunt RSS

    Need help fast

    I like cats

      Hi, I'm using Premiere Pro CS4 with Adobe Encore. I am having trouble encoding my media to a format that looks good on my dvd. I shot in SD 720 24p with a JVC GY100 or 110. I encoded it with MPEG2 for DVD. After building the DVD in Encore I burned to DVD. I am getting lots of lines everytime there is movement. Kind of jittery. It looked fine on my computer.It looks terrible on my tv. The trt is about 1hr. I've worked so hard on this...

       

      I need this to be finished right now. I'm trying not to stress because that won't solve anything. I don't know much about different codecs and pull downs and such-- please forgive my ignorance. I realize I should have kept up with the times. My day job doesn't require it so any reading I did on it (and I did) has left me. I did a wedding video 2 years ago same camera but probably cs3 back then and used whatever came standard in adobe media encoder and it turned out perfect. I was expecting the same outcome.

       

      Can you give me some steps I can take to try and make this video look good? I would appreciate so much any advice you can give me.

       

      I had a crazy idea of encoding it to HD 720p 24fps and then putting it on the timeline and then exporting to mpeg2 dvd. I may be showing off my technical deficiencies again. The doc is an hour long. It's set to be replicated for 1000 dvds. I'm supposed to place the order this week.

       

      Go ahead and use any tech language you need to. If I don't understand something I will look it up. I need support to get this going. I tried and I can't figure this out on my own in the time alotted. Thanks again.

       

      --I Like Cats (well... they're kind of awesome)

       

      PS: I have been experimenting with different options that come with adobe media encoder but they just make it look worse. I need someone with more experience to give me a couple minutes.

        • 1. Re: Need help fast
          I like cats Community Member

          BTW, I used the word jittery... it's more like very tiny lines like venetian blinds running through it especially if there is movement. It looks like it simply wasn't encoded at a high enough quality and I chose the highest available on media encoder that I know of that is for dvd.

          • 2. Re: Need help fast
            Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

            What is your PrPro to Encore workflow? How are you getting your PrPro material into Encore?

             

            What is the format/CODEC of your source footage? I almost sounds like it is MPEG to begin with, as what you describe is often associated with multiple MPEG Transcodes.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Need help fast
              I like cats Community Member

              My PrPro to Encore workflow.. I send my PrPro project to Adobe Media Encoder. I encode as MPEG2 DVD. Then I import the MPEG's as timelines. I burned it at 1x because I read this is best.

               

              The format of my source footage is mini-dv shot 720p 24fps. I don't think it was an MPEG to begin with and Encore doesn't transcode it again. Thanks for your reply. Any more assistance you or anyone else can offer would be great!

              • 4. Re: Need help fast
                I like cats Community Member

                Here are the properties of one tape of original footage:

                 

                Type: AVI Movie
                File Size: 13.8 GB
                Image Size: 720 x 480
                Pixel Depth: 32
                Frame Rate: 29.97 (24p)
                Source Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 16 bit - Stereo
                Project Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 32 bit floating point - Stereo
                Total Duration: 01:05:07:02
                Average Data Rate: 3.6 MB / second
                Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.2121

                 

                Is this correct for ingesting 720 24p dv for my JVC 100 or 110? I see the frame rate is 29.97 with 24p in (). The original footage doesn't look great when I blow it up full screen on the computer... It looks similar to the dvd quality. I've been working on this for months and had another pair of eyes on it too. I think I am officially screwed, but I don't know what I did wrong. I can't start it over. There's no time. 7 hours of footage... hour long piece plus special features... but if it is ingested improperly I could ingest only what I need for the piece and then re-edit over it. Can anybody answer whether I made an error on ingest? I'm sure I know the answer to this one but is there any way to improve the quality of the source? I'm going to continue with my experiments and remaining calm. Thanks to anybody who takes the time to help me!

                • 5. Re: Need help fast
                  I like cats Community Member

                  I just checked out my camera settings since I haven't shot anything since this project. I accidentally set it to 24pa rather than 24p. I'm googling and trying to figure out how this affects my project.  Or if it even does. Maybe it's not as bad as I think? Or maybe I'm in denial. I have a trailer online. If someone would private message me I would link you to it.

                  • 6. Re: Need help fast
                    I like cats Community Member

                    Here's what I posted in an Adobe After Effects CS4 forum. Sorry, I realize I'm about the only person posting in here... but I may know what the problem is and I'm trying to learn the process for the solution:

                     

                    I shot video 720 24pa (I thought I  was shooting 24p). Adobe Premiere CS4 can't seem to process 24pa. I am  getting artifacts whenever there is movement. There are lines and it  looks blocky. My original footage looks fine. (I have read threads about  others having this problem, but have found no solutions yet). I have  completely edited this hour long documentary plus special features. It  wasn't until I authored the dvd and played it on the big screen that I  saw it was a big oops. (lesson learned, take a look at the video full  screen after ingest).

                     

                    I have read that After Effects CS4  can handle 24pa fine. I did import the project but found I don't even  know how to play it. I double clicked one of the sequences and it went  to the timeline, but no amount of space bar pressing would make it play.  I've never used after effects. First things first. Ha, or apparently  last. sorry for the rambling:

                     

                    *All I want to do is import  the project from premiere pro cs4 into after effects cs4 solving the  24pa playback problem and export it to Adobe Encore and burn a dvd and  have it play right.

                    Does anybody know if this will work? Even if  you don't know if it will cure my artifacty blockiness-- Do you know how  to import the project and then export it to encore? There didn't seem  to be an mpeg2-dvd encoding option.

                     

                    I'm under deadline... I  am at a loss. I'll keep searching the internets, but if there is  somebody out there with any advice, insights, ideas at all-- I would be  forever grateful.This project means more to me than a paycheck

                     

                    Thanks.

                    • 7. Re: Need help fast
                      Jeff Bellune CommunityMVP
                      1. What sequence settings did you use in Pr?
                      2. The footage you shot is standard definition; don't go anywhere near HD presets.  720p doesn't refer to the 720 in 720x480.  Instead, it refers to the 720 in HD 1280x720 frame size.
                      3. I've never had to mess with 24pa, but IIRC from other forum posts, you'll be OK whether you used 29.97 fps as the frame rate of the sequence, or whether you used 23.976 fps as the frame rate of the sequence.  As long as Pr is set to properly remove the pulldown from the 24pa footage, either one should work. Maybe someone who's actually used such footage can provide more accurate info on that.
                      4. If you did indeed use the 720p HD preset, your end result is probably the result of transcoding interlaced footage as progressive.  Hopefully, just moving your edit into a proper sequence will solve the problem.
                      5. Please don't cross post; I deleted your post in the older thread.

                       

                      -Jeff

                      • 8. Re: Need help fast
                        Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                        I have no answer, but recall as jeff does that there were posts in the past.

                         

                        This example seemed to have some answers in the 24pa presets not working as intended - or at least that an interpret footage option might be needed.

                         

                        http://forums.adobe.com/thread/388056

                         

                        Hopefully someone will chime in that has worked with this footage.

                        • 9. Re: Need help fast
                          Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                          So skeeze is now i like cats; how poetic!  I laughed when I saw your post on that old thread (now deleted; I get emails) - I read the rest of the thread after posting the link here.  No wonder you're confused!

                           

                          So the questions are:

                           

                          Have you tried interpreting your footage as xyz?

                          Have you tried putting in in a different sequence preset?

                           

                          What is the right method of the different preset: copy and paste?

                          • 10. Re: Need help fast
                            JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                            Assuming the information provided is accurate, the best way to do this is to edit in a 24p Widescreen sequence.  24pA simply means Premiere will have an easier time of removing the pulldown added by the camera.

                             

                            When it's time to export, use the MPEG2-DVD option with an NTSC 23.976 Widescreen preset.  Adjust the quality slider from 4 to 5.  Set the target bitrate to 6 and the max to 9.  This should give respectable quality.

                             

                            Take note, however, that pans at 24p can still have artifacts, depending on how fast the pan is.  This applies even to movies shot on film by Hollywood.  It's an unavoidable result of the 24 fps frame rate.

                            • 11. Re: Need help fast
                              I like cats Community Member

                              Hi Jeff, thank you for taking time to reply:


                              "What sequence settings did you use in Pr?"
                              Editing mode 24p
                              Timebase 23.976 fps
                              720x480 16:9
                              Pixel aspect ratio D1/DV NTSC Widescreen 16:9 (1.21..
                              Fields: No fields (progressive scan)
                              Display foramt: 24fps Timecode
                              audio sample rate 48000 HZ
                              Display format: Audio samples
                              Preview File Format Microsoft AVI DV NTSC
                              Codec 24p
                              I did not check the boxes for Maximum Bit Depth or Maximum Render quality.


                              "The  footage you shot is standard definition; don't go anywhere near HD  presets.  720p doesn't refer to the 720 in 720x480.  Instead, it refers  to the 720 in HD 1280x720 frame size."

                              Thank you. Noted. Stayed away and staying away.

                              "I've never had to mess  with 24pa, but IIRC from other forum posts, you'll be OK whether you  used 29.97 fps as the frame rate of the sequence, or whether you used  23.976 fps as the frame rate of the sequence.  As long as Pr is set to  properly remove the pulldown from the 24pa footage, either one should  work. Maybe someone who's actually used such footage can provide more  accurate info on that."

                              I went to "Interpret footage" and it is set for: Use frame rate from this file 23.9760. The box is checked for Remove 24p dv pulldown. (any adjustments I make cause either a slo motion effect or doesn't seem to make any difference at all.

                              "If you did indeed use the 720p HD preset,  your end result is probably the result of transcoding interlaced  footage as progressive.  Hopefully, just moving your edit into a proper  sequence will solve the problem."

                              I didn't use an HD preset.

                              "Please don't cross post; I deleted your post in the older thread."
                              Sorry. I read AE may help and I thought the people who frequent that forum may be different from those who frequent this forum and have different insights. I've been in a state of calm panic trying to fix this before the weekend on top of other things I have to do. Thank you for taking time to respond!! If you see anything in this post that I did wrong in Pro CS4 please Iwould be grateful for your input. The settings seem right to me yet it looks terrible.

                               

                              Take care,

                              I like cats (They're so fluffy)

                               

                              • 12. Re: Need help fast
                                I like cats Community Member

                                Hi Jim,

                                 

                                Thanks for the response. I did all you mentioned when encoding except sliding the bitrate from 6 to 9. The replication service i will be using suggested a bitrate higher than 6 or 7 may not play on older dvd players. I used 7. If it will increase the quality to something usable I'd take it to 11 (if that were an option. ha.)

                                 

                                From all the info I have gathered so far, I can see no problem with any of my sequence settings. CS4 is apparently updated to properly interpret the footage. If sliding the bitrate to 9 solves this I will send you a basket of kittens.

                                • 13. Re: Need help fast
                                  Jeff Bellune CommunityMVP

                                  It may be time to move on to your En project and transcoding settings. 

                                  Let's see what Jim thinks about that.

                                   

                                  -Jeff

                                  • 14. Re: Need help fast
                                    JSS1138 CommunityMVP
                                    suggested a bitrate higher than 6 or 7 may not play on older dvd players.

                                     

                                    A popular myth, especially if you intend to replicate.  Up it to 9.

                                     

                                    I will send you a basket of kittens.

                                     

                                    Make it puppies.  I'm allergic to cats.

                                    • 15. Re: Need help fast
                                      Bill Hunt CommunityMVP
                                      A popular myth, especially if you intend to replicate.  Up it to 9.

                                      Could be a myth, but I'd be inclined to go with the suggestions from the replication house. Before going higher than their recs. I'd check it out carefully with them, as they will have the ultimate responsibility for playability.

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: Need help fast
                                        I like cats Community Member

                                        Jim, the basket of puppies may be arriving.

                                        I upped it to 9 and it still looked terrible -----BUT, I then added a guasian blur. 3 seemed to blend the movement and remove the blockiness and lines without making it look too soft. 4 was too soft. 2 didn't cut it. 3 seems to be just right. Another thing I did was add a 2nd VBR pass. I don't remember if I did that or not. I may have. I am sleep deprived at this point.

                                        I also agree with you Bill, and will check with the replication company reguarding their no more than 7 bitrate recomendation. I also encoded a sample with a 7 bitrate and 3 gausian blur and it is usable, but not as nice as the 9.

                                         

                                        Problem MAY be solved. I only used a 15 second sample of video with movement so we'll see. And yes I burned a dvd with my top 3 encodings and watched them all on the big screen. I'm going to call the replication company now to get their thoughts and then I will be offline because I will be encoding for freaking ever. Thanks to everybody for your support. Even to the guy who said something like Skeeve is now I like cats. I'm not and uhm... well, no comment. I am grateful for the suggestions. Thank you.

                                        --I like cats (they purr and stuff)

                                        • 17. Re: Need help fast
                                          JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                          If you want even better results, I recommend the free HC Encoder.  It's a bit of a process, requiring Avisynth to work.  But it has the more professional CQ mode, and produces noticeably better results at lower bitrates than the MainConcept encoder Adobe uses.  If you're interested and can get things working, I'll pass alone the appropriate settings.

                                          • 18. Re: Need help fast
                                            I like cats Community Member

                                            Ok, I am so happy I could cry! (cut me some slack, I'm a girly girl sometimes). The 9 bitrate, 2 vbs pass and gaussian blur 3 solved it. I just encoded one of my special features and burned to dvd. It looks like film. It's a beautiful thing! Thanks for all of your help again.

                                             

                                            Thanks to the above poster for the suggestion on an encoder. I think for now I am good, but will keep in mind for future.

                                             

                                            --I like cats (they're clean)

                                            • 19. Re: Need help fast
                                              Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                              Glad that Jim got you pointed in the correct direction, and thanks for reporting your success.

                                               

                                              Good luck,

                                               

                                              Hunt

                                               

                                              PS - if Jim won't take the kittens, I feel certain that Ann Bens (frequent, respected contributor here) will.