23 Replies Latest reply: Jan 4, 2011 3:08 PM by able123 RSS

    Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render

    jesskaat Community Member

      Just got it. Love it. But, it takes so damned long to render in my timeline, and if I don't render, it's too sluggish to see. And I just installed a fancy new graphics card, the Nvidia Quadro 4000 Open GL (don't really understand it, but know that it's supposed to help things?). (PP CS4, i7 processor with 12 gigs ram, plenty of disc space). What's up with that? How can I find out how to optimize the settings on the card. I mean read something I can actually understand???

      Jess

        • 1. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
          Community Member

          Hiya,

          I use CS3, and have a much less powerful computer than you do, but basically I think here are some issues re: what you are doing...

           

          CS4 is 32 bit, and your system is 64 bit (your OS is 64 bit ? ), and your graphics card is good to go for using CS5 mercury playback engine, so I would maybe consider upgrading to cs5 to get the most out of your system now.  It's 64 bit ( cs5 ) and uses your graphics card's GPU and the memory on your graphics card ( as that is part of using the gpu - the mem on the card ).

           

          CS3 ( Im not sure about cs4 but I think its the same ) doesnt use the graphics card GPU much.. not like cs5 does.

           

          open GL is more for gaming than video editing ( open gl ( open glide ) ) is for rendering 3d simulations, modeling, etc... so that really doesnt come into play ( can basically ignore it at this point ).

           

          Soooo, you would find the system you have and card you have work faster and better with CS5, in my opinion ( even though I dont have cs5 ).  Others here will have more specific info for you, those that have upgraded to cs5 from cs4 etc.

           

          ( sorry this is looking like more computer work and installing and all that ...  but you'd probably be way better off in the long run to upgrade ...faster, etc )

           

           

           

          ps....the good thing is once you're all set up you should be good for a really long time with any sort of HD work etc

           

          I think you have 2-3 hard drives ( 2 terabytes ea? )...so you probably already know how to set up your hard drives for best editing etc

          • 2. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
            Community Member

            found this about cs4 and quadro cards

             

            http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_62559.html

             

            didnt read all of it yet

            • 3. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
              Community Member

              hmmm

              not sure if your card is supported by that accelerator plug in...plus it might only be for exporting h264. doesnt sound great to me.

               

              do you have 64 bit windows ??  do you have the newest driver for your card ??

               

              http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro-win7-winvista-64bit-259.81-whql-driver.html

               

               

              • 4. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                jesskaat Community Member

                Ugghhh....

                My head hurts just thinking about it, but I'm sure you're right. I'm just about to start a batch of big projects, so maybe the time to upgrade is NOW.

                Thanks for your comments. They're right on.

                That accelerator looks great. Great video too for it. But, it doesn't support my card. Mine is not the FX series. It's this one.

                http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-us.html

                 

                I got it because the way my feeble brain understands it, CS5 needs Open GL to maximize graphics capabilities and rendering HD in the timeline. I use After Effects quite a bit, but don't know if I can afford to upgrade that too. So expensive huh? But, I suppose sticking with CS4 in AE is defeating the purpose as well.

                J

                • 5. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                  jesskaat Community Member

                  Win 7 professional which is 64. I have the updated driver.

                   

                  veccvideography.com

                  • 6. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                    Community Member

                    compatible cards cs5.jpg

                    cs5 compatible cards

                     

                     

                    from what I understand (  I dont have AE and only use premiere cs3 ) from reading etc...AE does use open GL when drawing 3d stuff ( open gl is for 3d rendering, games that use 3d stuff and modeling programs that draw 3d, like AE , maya ,etc )

                    The "video" editing isnt 3d at all...and doesnt use open gl....it uses the gpu IF YOU GET CS5...

                     

                    Unfortunately the move to cs5 is to a totally new bit depth ( 64 bit instead of 32 ) so I doubt cs4 AE would be compatible with CS5 premiere...

                     

                    Yep, my head hurts too, just thinking about all you have to deal with --- but think of it like going to the dentist.  Once its done you'll feel GREAT !

                     

                     

                    • 7. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                      Community Member

                      yes, that was a stupid question on my part...cause you wouldnt have so much ram if it wasnt 64

                       

                      duh

                      • 8. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                        jesskaat Community Member

                        Sorry, but that's not usually MY experience with the dentist. Visits to him

                        (I've put his kids through grad school) are usually followed by weeks of daily

                        Advil!

                        So, you're not saying I won't be able to use what I produce in AE in CS5 right?

                        Just that ADL won't work. I never use it for AE anyway.

                        J

                         

                        veccvideography.com

                        • 9. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                          Community Member

                          I DONT think you can use AE cs4 with premiere cs5...

                           

                          In fact, I dont know what the requirements are for the premiere cs5 ONLY upgrade...how that will effect your other adobe software....someone else here will know that...

                          The adobe employees who come here are maybe still on vacation, but Todd might see this...he was here yesterday

                           

                          he can definitely help you with these issues...maybe know some workaround to using premiere cs5 and AE cs4 ?? dont know, sorry.

                           

                          im still trying to think of a better and more appealing analogy than the dentist....but so far nothing.

                           

                          basically no matter how you look at it you're more than halfway there... you have the hardware to do what you need...

                           

                           

                           

                          plus if you have to you can use external sata drives maybe for big projects etc

                          • 10. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                            Community Member

                            Jessica,

                             

                            maybe go to this thread

                            http://forums.adobe.com/thread/773101?tstart=0

                             

                            ask todd about the cs5 update working with ae4 etc...maybe refer him to this thread ....he should get back to you pretty quick

                             

                            Rod

                            • 11. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                              jesskaat Community Member

                              Thanks Rod, I really appreciate it. Very nervous about doing this.

                               

                               

                              veccvideography.com

                              • 12. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                                JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                Here's the bottom line.

                                 

                                Looks is slow to render.

                                 

                                That's it.  Really nothing you can do about it.  There's no driver settings that will make it faster.  Upgrading your OS or Premiere Pro version won't help.  Upgrading your GPU might, but you've already got a good one.

                                 

                                Still, Looks is slow to render.

                                • 13. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                                  jesskaat Community Member

                                  Well, I'm sorry to hear that. I got looks to replace Prodad Vitascene which isn't compatible with my new graphics card, the Nvidia Quadro 4000. Looks seems like a better package, but Vitascene was pretty good. It was quick in the timeline. Often, I didn't have to render at all. So, technically, what's the difference here?

                                  • 14. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                                    JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                    I've never used Vistascene, so I can't comment on that.

                                     

                                    I know that I've found Looks to be so powerful and flexible that I can no longer produce without it.  I won't upgrade Adobe apps until Looks and Colorista work with them.

                                    • 15. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                                      jesskaat Community Member

                                      So Jim,

                                      Looks isn't compatible with CS5?

                                       

                                       

                                      veccvideography.com

                                      • 16. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                                        Community Member

                                        Jessica

                                        hows your head ?? this should make it feel better....

                                        look at this thread about the graphics card you have now and cs5 mercury playback engine

                                         

                                        http://forums.adobe.com/message/3378478#3378478

                                         

                                        after the question I ask , look at Todd's answer and Harms ( ignore the rest )

                                         

                                        what this verifies is that the gpu ( graphics card processor and memory on that card ) is NOT being used by the editing program PP cs4 ( or any version before cs5 ).  Some 3d apps ( AE etc ) WOULD use the gpu due to Open GL and 3d processes....but not for editing

                                         

                                        To get the most out of your card you would be getting the biggest improvement ( quality and speed ---but NOT encoding and decoding...that is still only the CPU ) with PP cs5.

                                         

                                        basically it means that except for losing that ADL stuff you'd be fine updating the PP cs4 to cs5 and see a big improvement using your new graphics card and your 64 bit computer.

                                         

                                        The only drawback I see is prodad cant be used with your new card so you have to live with the speed of magic bullet looks..

                                        BUT the result of that looks thing is apparently WORTH the wait , once you get used to the time rendering...cause the quality of it will be really good.

                                         

                                        so my advice is to upgrade to PP cs5 only and continue to use the magic bullet plug in ( Jim Simon has used that a lot and has good advice for settings etc if you need them later on -- he is good with color correction  )

                                         

                                         

                                        • 17. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                                          Community Member

                                          ----------------

                                          Very nervous about doing this.

                                          ---------------

                                          it is a lot of $$ ( especially if you're used to student prices ) but I think you'll find upgrading just pp cs5 now as you have been thinking of doing is worth it with the hardware you have now...and magic bullet looks...if Jim Simon likes it despite the time factor, it is good.

                                           

                                          If John can magically enroll you in some courses out there in the sunny west, and get you an ID etc , go for that route and upgrade the whole suite.

                                           

                                          If Todd can get you a discount for the whole suite to keep ADL , on some employee discount thing, go for that.

                                           

                                          Otherwise I think you're doing the right thing to upgrade PP cs5 now, as that will be the bulk of your work probably

                                           

                                          good luck

                                           

                                          ps. sent an email to elyguerrapublicrelations.com ( ruth ely and homer guerra ) with links to your barkofest video and website etc...give them a shout... who knows, maybe you can shoot some big thing for nothing in central park...  how thrilling !  ( kidding of course.... ask for at least $500 / day plus expenses shooting, and give an estimate for a flat rate editing and final product. That's for charity work.

                                           

                                           

                                          • 18. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                                            Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

                                            Be aware that MB Looks and other plug-ins do not use hardware MPE, even if they are suitable for CS5. Their better performance comes from the 64 bit architecture.

                                            • 19. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                                              Community Member

                                              Harm,

                                              Thanks....I guess the "better performance" attributes is based more on the colors ( numbers in the binary system being able to describe more variations in color etc ) and not on rendering speed by using the gpu in any way.  makes sense.  Jim seems to like the the thing, and the time must be worth it.  Do you use it ?

                                              • 20. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                                                jesskaat Community Member

                                                Hi there. Rex and I just returned from a nice, long walk. Good for clearing the

                                                head. Well, I guess I'll be doing it. Looks like there isn't a dire need to

                                                upgrade AE. I usually end up just replacing sequences by hand anyway, because

                                                I've experienced a lot of crashing, (or nothing at all) with ADL. ADL works

                                                pretty well with Photoshop and PP, and not so well with AE and PP. But, maybe

                                                that's just a CS4 problem that's been rectified with CS5....

                                                I might do this thing tomorrow morning as I'll have time.

                                                Hey, I did send an email to your friend. She had another address on her website.

                                                I'll cc to this other address too. I used to do a lot of stuff for free when I

                                                was learning the trade. It really got me known up here and I've developed a

                                                little business, partly (or mostly) from all the free stuff I've done. I do very

                                                little of it anymore - except if it interests me terribly. I did a piece (free)

                                                a couple of months ago and it got picked up by a blogger on the Huffington Post.

                                                It's regarding a town supervisor and a Sufi Muslim cemetery up here in the

                                                Catskills. The story made the national news big time - Colbert, Olbermann, the

                                                AP all picked it.up.

                                                If you've ever got nothing to do - ie the car is washed, you've done the

                                                laundry....etc, etc. here's the link:

                                                http://vimeo.com/15890033

                                                I got one nice paid job out of it and - I'm probably on the no fly list

                                                now........

                                                Jess

                                                 

                                                 

                                                veccvideography.com

                                                • 21. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                                                  JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                                  Looks and a whole host of Red Giant plug-ins are now compatible with CS5.

                                                   

                                                  http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/support/compatibility/host-applications/adobe-premiere-pro /#win-7-64bit

                                                   

                                                  I was just saying that I like Looks so much that when a new version of Premiere Pro comes out, I won't upgrade until I know Looks will work with it.

                                                  • 22. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                                                    JSS1138 CommunityMVP
                                                    ADL works pretty well with Photoshop and PP, and not so well with AE and PP. But, maybe that's just a CS4 problem that's been rectified with CS5

                                                     

                                                    Actually, Dynamic Link has no functionality between PhotoShop and other apps.  Photoshop just saves a stand alone file (PSD, JPEG, PNG, TIFF, etc.) that is read by other apps.  So long as the other app can read the updated file, the changes show up.  This is a very different technology than Dynamic Link.

                                                     

                                                    The issue with DL not working for you is more likely a local system issue.  I had it working very well in CS4 for well over a year.

                                                    • 23. Re: Magic Bullet Looks - very slow render
                                                      Community Member

                                                      ------------------

                                                      It's regarding a town supervisor and a Sufi Muslim cemetery up here  in the

                                                      Catskills. The story made the national news big time -  Colbert, Olbermann, the

                                                      AP all picked it.up.

                                                      If you've ever  got nothing to do - ie the car is washed, you've done the

                                                      laundry....etc,  etc. here's the link:

                                                      http://vimeo.com/15890033

                                                      I  got one nice paid job out of it and - I'm probably on the no fly list

                                                      now........

                                                      ----------------------

                                                      notes made while watching-------------

                                                       

                                                      notes as I watched---

                                                       

                                                      watch your head room -- dont focus peoples faces in center of frame...move down on tilt

                                                       

                                                      is better to cut off part of head at top than have too much room - just avoid top of head and top of frame match...as that looks weirder

                                                       


                                                      name of person talking good
                                                      as subtitles- toward end

                                                       

                                                      in beginning, interviewed lawyer and main character representing muslims ( in church ? ) looking just off lens...as if talking to someone ( not looking into lens directly )...maybe cut to someone they are talking to ( being interviewed by )...

                                                       

                                                      is like maisel brothers work...where they interview people documentary style... by someone off camera asking questions ( near lens) and get responses ---but its too long to keep that going with this longer form..without the reverse shot....felt it would be nice to introduce the "person asking the questions".... kinda like a newshour pbs interview type setting...cut back to the "question" person sometimes...not much, maybe 2-3 times for the whole thing

                                                       

                                                      dont know if you locked off camera and spoke to them yourself from off camera or what ?

                                                       

                                                      all the basics beautiful and really well done ! ...the color, focus, sound, editing in general, the " story" told...very good and comprehensive...

                                                       

                                                      not confusing or lackluster...real good !

                                                       

                                                      personal feelings are another matter --- will save that for another time ( has to do with my own interpretation of "law" vs "morality" --people wanting an apology etc in court is almost counter intuitive ( is a town hall meeting a courtroom just cause there's a lawyer present ? )
                                                      Have you ever been in a divorce or trial where people lie their heads off left and right ?  Law is not the same as "what's the nicest thing to do ", and town halls aren't courts...a strange but powerful movie you made...and timely.  Again, you prove how much you like people !

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      you didnt pass judgement in that -- you just documented it ----despite what you might feel personally I dont feel you gave anyone special preference or were unfair in any way in your editing....so dont worry about that, but be careful you keep loving people...all of them.