15 Replies Latest reply: Jan 8, 2011 4:05 PM by Lundberg02 RSS

    aRGB monitor/computer combo

    przybysz2x

      I want to get a wide gamut monitor (NEC PA 271W, for example) to use with PS4 or 5 and adobeRGB. My current set-up is Powermac G5 (Oct 2003), dual cpu, 2gh, 6mg ram, OS 10.5.2, ati Radeon 9600, LaCie crt electron22b.

       

      1) Is this G5 too old for a simple upgrade to accommodate wide gamut, or can I get by with a better, high-end graphics board (such as...)?

       

      2) Is there some conflict between Mac OS 10.6 and wide gamut screens, or is it 10.6 vs. Photoshop itself?

       

      Thank you for helping this ignorant soul....

        • 1. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
          gator soup Community Member

          aRGB (Adobe RGB, so-called wide gamut) monitors are a problem on the Mac OX because Colorsync assigns/applies/assumes/defaults to the Default monitor profile.

           

          That means ALL untagged and unmanaged color, sRGB the Web default, for example, will look super saturated especially in the reds.

           

          If you want to preview how this will look on the Web and in Finder, take a sRGB image with good skin tones, and Photoshop> Edit> Assign Profile: Adobe RGB (the red saturation goes crazy).

           

          If you work exclusively in color-managed apps like Photoshop and FireFox, wide gamut panels *may* be okay, but mine lasted about four hours before I sent it back.

           

          try google: wide gamut osx

          for more info, opinions...

          • 2. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
            Chris Cox Adobe Employee

            That means ALL untagged and unmanaged color, sRGB the Web default, for example, will look super saturated especially in the reds.

            MacOS 10.6 does some automatic color magagement - so you won't get super-saturated colors on wide gamut monitors.

            Only 10.5 and earlier will have problems with wide gamut displays, similar to how they appear on Windows.

            • 3. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
              Chris Cox Adobe Employee

              Oh, and all of my displays are now wide gamut (Adobe RGB or larger).

              • 4. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
                gator soup Community Member
                MacOS 10.6 does some automatic color magagement

                 

                Okay I'm all ears, what profile is 10.6 defaulting to (if not its default monitor profile by default)?

                • 5. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
                  Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                  MacOS 10.6 uses sRGB for untagged images/graphics, and converts to the profile for each display - much like Photoshop does.

                  • 6. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
                    gator soup Community Member

                    Prior to 10.6, my point was easy to prove on a wide gamut panel by opening a sRGB image in Photoshop and View>Proof Setup: Monitor RGB (to see how Finder and Safari will preview untagged sRGB).

                     

                    Has that changed?

                    • 7. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
                      gator soup Community Member
                      MacOS 10.6 uses sRGB for untagged images/graphics, and converts to the profile for each display

                       

                      Okay, that is crystal clear (and news to me)...I wish I had a w-g panel to see for myself.

                      • 8. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
                        gator soup Community Member

                        Chris,

                         

                        I appreciate your help, still I don't understand.

                         

                        MacOS 10.6 uses sRGB for untagged images/graphics, and converts to the profile for each display - much like Photoshop does.

                         

                        If 10.6, Safari 5 displays tagged and untagged sRGB differently (I don't even need a wide gamut monitor to see this saturation change myself on the sRGB rollovers I set up) then it does not appear Apple is using the sRGB profile for untagged images and converting to the monitor profile - like Photoshop does - or the rollovers would "match."

                         

                        I am going to stick by words on this one...for now.

                        • 9. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
                          Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                          MacOS 10.6 is trying to color mange images, and applications.

                          Safari has it's own color mangement code, that doesn't work quite right, and works differently from how it did on 10.5 (I have the same model display on 2 systems here to test such issues).

                          • 10. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
                            Lundberg02 Community Member

                            There's always a Luddite in the crowd somewhere.

                            Wide gamut is here to stay and will only get wider when there are affordable six color LED displays later this year.

                            • 11. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
                              gator soup Community Member

                              MacOS 10.6 is trying to color mange images, and applications.

                              Safari has it's own color mangement code, that doesn't work quite right, and works differently from how it did on 10.5 (I have the same model display on 2 systems here to test such issues).

                               

                              I can't see any difference in 10.6.6 behavior from what I've been observing seen since System 9 and my old Lacie 22 CRT when I Assigned my calibrated MonitorRGB to an sRGB file.

                               

                              Today I am looking at a hardware profiled 30" Apple Display for my reference, and I see the exact slight saturation (and black) boost I expect when Assigning MonitorRGB to a sRGB PDI file in Photoshop.

                               

                              Photoshop's MonitorRGB soft proof (the color shift) "matches" visually to what I am seeing in BOTH Preview.app and Safari when viewing the untagged PDI sRGB image (so apparently Preview's color management code isn't quite right either displaying untagged sRGB?).

                              I don't need a wide-gamut (WG) panel to see what's going on, unless there is something in a WG profile or hardware signal that tells 10.6 to change the behavior I am seeing on my standard gamut ACD.

                               

                              I am not trying to argue with anyone, I am just trying to understand what I am seeing with my own eyes and what Chris is talking about...it looks like the same behavior I've seen in 10.5 and 10.4.

                               

                              Wide gamut is here to stay and will only get wider when there are affordable six color LED displays later this year.

                               

                              Apple better get busy then...10.6 has not fixed the oversaturated reds on the Web for some users (I confirmed today other wide gamut users are still seeing the oversaturated reds on the Web using 10.6 and Safari5)...

                              • 12. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
                                przybysz2x Community Member

                                Dear People--

                                Your discussion has been an eye-opener (so to speak) for me, and I thank you much. Why is nothing easy?

                                For the time being, I probably should stay with my rickety 2003 G5, upgrade the 10.5 OS and max out at 8gb ram. With the LaCie 22" crt (really only 20+"), my Epson R2400 and reasonably accurate profiling, I can still do exhibit quality prints when the urge strikes me.

                                 

                                But please feel free to continue the discussion. I'm learning a lot. And thank you!

                                • 13. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
                                  Lundberg02 Community Member

                                  What would possess you to Assign Monitor RGB to a tagged file?  Of course you're going to see the same thing in any OS.

                                  • 14. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
                                    gator soup Community Member
                                    What would possess you to Assign Monitor RGB to a tagged file?  Of course you're going to see the same thing in any OS.

                                     

                                    But that is exactly what OSX and developers are doing (for all practical purposes) when they ignore profiles and default unmanaged color to monitor RGB.

                                     

                                    The problem to that approach is glaringly evident when monitor RGB equals a wider gamut color space like AdobeRGB, and you are viewing a sRGB (standard RGB) environment (like the Internet).

                                     

                                    Edit> Assign Profile: Monitor RGB (in my example) only proves my point...

                                    • 15. Re: aRGB monitor/computer combo
                                      Lundberg02 Community Member

                                      No. No. No. No. No. No.    God only knows what that is doing.