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1. Re: Shooting script / workflow
JSS1138 Jan 21, 2011 4:28 PM (in response to Christopher Duncan)If memory serves, Final Draft has a way to convert screenplays into shooting scripts.
Probably only works if you wrote the screenplay in FD, though. Not sure if it works on a Word document.
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2. Re: Shooting script / workflow
Christopher Duncan Jan 21, 2011 8:58 PM (in response to JSS1138)I'd taken a look at it but it didn't seem to have much in that direction. Thanks, though!
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4. Re: Shooting script / workflow
able123 Jan 22, 2011 2:58 PM (in response to able123)sheesh...thats a yellow colored paper and was hard to get "clear " looking..you probably have to expand the image above, save image as ( desktop whatever ), and open in psd to see it clearly ( as clear as it can get anyway given the byte count )...
strip boards with scene info etc can be rearranged fast and easy, cause every day stuff changes ( couldnt get shot )..thats the strip board deal...so you can rearrange stuff fast..move stuff not shot to another day in future, another location, etc.
the pages in 8ths boils down to "time" on screen. a page of script is traditionally a certain amount of "time"...averaged out...cause obviously more action and less dialogue changes that to some extent, but thats what the pages into 8ths is about... gives everyone idea how much can be scheduled per actual shooting day...this has to do with how many "actors" are in the scene ( due to coverage of the scene..takes more time to cover close ups, medium, master with more talent in shot than just 1 or 2 people in shot )..so thats on the callsheet too....column with numbers for who is in shot...
total pages for action stuff - 2nd unit often does action - less usually than 1st unit -- cause stunts take more time...hence 4/8 pages on this call sheet
the breakdown of who needs to be prepared for each scene or part of scene ( eg. sc 24pt ) re: props, costume, special equipment ( camera crane, batmobile, whatever) ....etc etc gets plugged into the scheduling and call sheets ....this changes daily due to what got shot and didnt ...gets complicated sorta.
MPE I think owns some production software to break down budgets and do scheduling and strip boards and call sheets etc...which is in fact used a lot on jobs...
But for your purposes I think that might be a bit much...and also expensive...the software cost a bit and it takes time to manage it all...plug in all the "facts" and so on for a job, script, talent names, character names, etc ...
given that maybe you dont need all that overhead of programmed production stuff along with translating script to shoot script...your method using excel is probably OK... but there are macros you can make in word processing programs to do what you are doing now...but you need to create the macros or else find free ones on the web....
That way you can stay in word and use macros and link if necessary ( OLE ) to excel but I doubt you have to do that....
will give it some thought and see if I get any brainy ideas.
You know, honestly...this is gonna sound stupid, but I kinda like the "storyboard" thing.... you do a template for storyboard ( just empty frames printed on paper ) - and you draw stick figures on frames with basic description of shot on bottom of frame...and arrows and stuff to show any special transition etc to next frame...but basically you do master, medium and CU using those frames...and if stuff changes, take scissors and cut out stuff, tape onto another piece of paper ....make then "new" storyboard...
Rod
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1086594
I guess the best answer re: why 8ths...is it gives everyone an idea of the "pace" or time expected on screen when the stuff is broken down like that...
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5. Re: Shooting script / workflow
Bill Hunt Jan 22, 2011 4:17 PM (in response to able123)thats a yellow colored paper and was hard to get "clear " looking.
In PS, look at adding a Threshold Adjustment Layer, and play with the slider. That usually cleans things up pretty well, without a lot of intense work.
Good luck,
Hunt
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6. Re: Shooting script / workflow
Christopher Duncan Jan 22, 2011 4:39 PM (in response to able123)Rod,
Great stuff as always, man. And that helps me understand the 1/8 pages thing much better.
I was already realizing that I need to get some sort of software help on this, and then it dawned on me. Hey. I'm a programmer. (Yes, they have treatment centers for that.)
So, I'm sitting here with SQL Server and Visual Studio (programming tools) laying out tables and throwing together a few additional pages on my web site to manage this stuff.
While it doesn't get me out of the copy / paste for the script breakdown, I realized that it wouldn't be rocket science to drop this stuff into a db. Checkboxes to flag the actors required for the scene, a list of radio buttons to do a quick pick of the shot (MS, CU, etc.), angle and so on. Add the locations, and sets per location and make them available in a similar quick pick manner.
When I'm done, I should have a single page that allows me to drop in all the data for a scene in a fairly painless (well, as painless as it gets) manner. I'll then be able to have a couple of other pages that let me flag the actors' availability for the upcoming weeks (e.g. for next Mon / Wed / Fri / Sat / Sun, checkboxes for all the actors - just click each actor under the days they're available).
Once it's in the database, it's very easy to put together a few reports with SQL Server Reporting Services (much like laying out a report in Access). So I can tie a report to a query and say, "based on the actors that are available next Wednesday, show me all the scenes that we can shoot" and then spit out a shot list for those scenes with all the info for each scene.
It may take me a day or two to get it implemented, but once it's done I'll have a customized system tailored to my environment that will let me manage the shooting script / shot list (is there a difference between the two?) and scheduling for cast and crew. The amount of time I burn doing this now will more than pay for it over the course of the project. And as a bonus, I can manage it from anywhere with an Internet connection.
Being a geek has its moments.
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7. Re: Shooting script / workflow
Christopher Duncan Jan 22, 2011 4:39 PM (in response to able123)Cool to be able to see real world examples of this stuff.
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8. Re: Shooting script / workflow
Christopher Duncan Jan 22, 2011 4:40 PM (in response to Bill Hunt)Bill,
What button do you push to get the wrinkles out?
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9. Re: Shooting script / workflow
able123 Jan 22, 2011 4:54 PM (in response to Christopher Duncan)------------
So, I'm sitting here with SQL Server and Visual Studio (programming tools) laying out tables and throwing together a few additional pages on my web site to manage this stuff.
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Chris, funny you should mention this today of all days...as I just spent the whole morning re-installing sql server and .net framework and all kinds of junk ( plus 3 service packs) on my old computer ( under my table )...to get back into a web app I was building a long time ago. After NOT working on it for 3 years, I uninstalled the sql server and stuff...
Now, out of nowhere, my brother wants to build a phone app with this thing ( its basically a grip elect expendable, lumber, tools and so on database )...so I had to reinstall this morning ( 5 freakin hours ) and try to nudge long dead brain cells into action to come up with some clue what I did before ( table structures, links, keys, blah blah )
is sorta your basic layout
just goes to show ya....... uhhhh, I dont know ......something or other !
ps. i was using visual studio.net for asp web app....now we are goin to use silverlight and cloud...azure, etc.
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10. Re: Shooting script / workflow
Christopher Duncan Jan 22, 2011 5:06 PM (in response to able123)Yeah, don't get me started on how long it takes to install MS dev tools. Each new generation is fatter, clumsier and takes longer to install. You know. Just like Windows.
I'd forgotten that you did web dev stuff, too. Sounds like that'll be a cool app. I'm not using any of the Silverlight or other such rich UI tools as this is just something quick & dirty for my own use. But you guys should have something pretty slick when you're done.
Are you guys doing a mobile app or just a standard computer one? If it's web based and you want the UI to morph to a mobile friendly screen when it's brought up by a phone rather than a PC / Mac, I've got some user agent detection code I could shoot you (C#) that I use on my web site to determine if it's an iPhone, iPod Touch, Android, Blackberry, etc.
Pocket protectors of the world, unite!
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11. Re: Shooting script / workflow
Christopher Duncan Jan 22, 2011 5:15 PM (in response to able123)Rod,
Was reading over the call sheet in detail and noticed that for each scene there's the heading (EXT ARTHURS APT POV) and a brief one line description.
Have any examples of what the directors work from that tells them more detail about each given scene / shot?
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12. Re: Shooting script / workflow
able123 Jan 22, 2011 9:55 PM (in response to Bill Hunt)---------
In PS, look at adding a Threshold Adjustment Layer, and play with the slider. That usually cleans things up pretty well, without a lot of intense work.
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thanks Bill.. checked it out...will keep that little trick in mind next time around !
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13. Re: Shooting script / workflow
able123 Jan 22, 2011 10:03 PM (in response to Christopher Duncan)Chris,
Kirk ( my bros ) wants me maybe to get into some program ...expression blend.. I checked it out quickly and it looks pretty cool...will keep in mind you got that code ... THANKS !
He wrote this --------
would like to maybe work on a Silverlight Business Application that will do the following:Using Silverlight, Entity Framework and WCF RIA Services.1. Have a login for users.2. Easy way of Maintaining all the Grip tables.If you want you could design a nice LOGO, Graphics or even a video?Also, if you have any business ideas of what would be needed. I know you mentioned drag and drop of items.In your spare time maybe you could learn Expression Blend for doing the animation stuff.--------------------------I have no clue what he's talking about at this point re: WCF RIA but assume its the cloud stuff...will let you know more later...just got back into this silly stuff earlier today re: sql etc. Expression blend just looks to me like an easy way ( front end ) to do methods, actions, etc..kinda like object oriented programming stuff. Will let him know you got that cool code too. -
14. Re: Shooting script / workflow
able123 Jan 22, 2011 10:40 PM (in response to able123)Chris
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Have any examples of what the directors work from
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no, sorry...no scripts or sides or nothin here now....(sides are miniature scripts -with only those pages for scenes to be worked on that particular day....get them at call time on location from production company ( shrunk down in size so you can fold once and stick in pocket easy )
For more specific idea what "parts" of scenes etc are to be shot I use the call sheet often. Sometimes I'll ask the script girl a question about how much "time" a shot is supposed to be and she'll use her stopwatch and read the lines herself ( if its dialogue )...if a stunt you dont know till you see rehearsal really.. nobody knows till then except in a vague sorta way.
but anyway, as per your question - believe it or not the old storyboards are used a lot by directors... sometimes shared with everyone ( large poster sized "storyboard" thing stuck on a grip stand so everyone can see whats been shot and what is left to shoot in a visual way...this would have only the basic first frame of each shot and brief desc under frames )
I once picked up that director's notebook - who shot 12 angry men, forget his name now, who is notorious for being REAL GOOD at shooting exactly what he NEEDS and not more... no waste....really good director - and his notebook had
yes, storyboard stuff and a lot of notes about each sequence ( each frame of storyboard )...like camera angle, lens size, camera move, stuff about what talent will be doing, how its gonna get blocked out etc.
I guess this is sorta important...the blocking part... that doesnt happen until the actual shot is gonna get done...you get to location, you get dir, dp, talent and maybe some key people to the physical space being used for shot ( set or location outside , whatever )...and talent does a sort of stuttering rehearsal...moving slowly, bit by bit, through the scene or part of scene...they are working out what "business" they are doing with hands, how they walk or move etc, how they relate to each other re: the camera ...at this point EVERYONE is discovering this now for the first time really...being invented on the spot...
If its for the master then subsequenct coverage ( whats available for more angles later...eg. " can I get camera over THERE later to cover this from this side of axis " ) is considered, and master is adjusted to suit....
Again, its really just the script and storyboard if avail that is used to kinda rough this in...
Then marks are made on floor for various positions the talent is gonna go through for the shot... and they go to hair makeup and 2nd team ( standins ) come onto set and we bring in camera, dolly etc and set up for first shot of the scene...usually master...if 2nd unit its gonna be just parts of stuff that the 1st unit didnt get or else the stunt or whatever.
once the camera dolly moves are worked out with standins and the ac has his focus marks etc the A team will come back in if done with hair makeup etc...and we do a rehearsal with A team with camera and it gets fine tuned for lighting...and thats about it.
So, I guess what I mean to say is that no matter how many notes and storyboards and all that you have...you basically have to get talent to go through the stuff , put the camera someplace and see how best to cover it, and rehearse and shoot....
THEN....script notes ( script girl ) (and camera dept notes about lens heights, distances to subjects, etc) come into play for the editing later...what takes were good ( "thats a print" ) how much time ( stopwatch used ), all the info thats on the clapper is on script notes, special notes about anything talent does in that particular take, etc...
You probably can get away with making notes yourself real quick as you go through shots on any blank paper with the scene and take number ...and note the angle and height etc ( in case you have to reshoot ), maybe note about lighting etc... some people take polaroids ( now digital camera shots ) of talent ( hair makeup costume etc info quick reference pics ) and pics of set too...again, in case of reshoots or inserts later etc.
most camera moves with cranes and choppers and all that stuff is only sorta roughed in re: NOTES and from scouting locations notes....kinda adapted from shooting script, but reality is always slightly different than script...so all this stuff evolves as it happens..know what I mean ??
Stunt guys ( dir and coordinator ) often have toy cars and stuff to show people how a crash or chase thing is gonna work out..."gather round folks, and check out my little cars here...this is whats gonna happen"....
Some people do block diagrams of talent in scenes according to some websites I've gone to but I have never in my life ever seen anything remotely like that ever used on TV , movies, industrials, etc. I think its a ploy to sell software.
hope this all helps a bit..sorry ...dont have anything here to show...the shoot script is just typical stuff and is pretty much like call sheet eg.
scene 34 ext / night
pauls pov of church
blah blah blah
Rod
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15. Re: Shooting script / workflow
able123 Jan 23, 2011 6:55 AM (in response to Christopher Duncan)edited
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16. Re: Shooting script / workflow
able123 Jan 23, 2011 8:42 AM (in response to able123)Chris,
your gonna laugh at me, I know...but this is like a staple in any production office I ever saw...not this particular one, but something like it...cause stuff changes so fast etc...
http://www.wallcalendar.us/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=74
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17. Re: Shooting script / workflow
Christopher Duncan Jan 23, 2011 9:23 AM (in response to able123)WCF is a MS communications technology that allows you to write web services. "Cloud" is just a meaningless Marketing buzzword for calling web services and storing data on remote servers. Sounds much sexier. I haven't worked with RIA yet but from what I glanced at it looks like it's meant to ease the transition between ASP.NET and Silverlight web service development.
Kirk probably knows this already, but there was recently a bit of a flap where MS started backpedaling on their future plans for Silverlight and leaning towards HTML 5 instead. Because of this, I'm not sure as a developer that I would invest my time in Silverlight. I've seen them do this for 20 years, push their next new technology that everyone absolutely has to support, only to kick it to the curb a year later for the next new thing.
http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2010/12/02/the-future-of-silverlight-and-html-5-at-microso ft/
I don't know squat about HTML 5 yet, but that's obviously the next big thing on the horizon for both MS and many other major players. For instance, I'm sure you know about the flap with Apple not supporting Flash, leaning instead towards HTML 5. Compatibility wars. Lord, how I love software development.
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18. Re: Shooting script / workflow
Christopher Duncan Jan 23, 2011 9:34 AM (in response to able123)Rod,
All that descriptive stuff about what goes on at the set is hugely helpful to me. I didn't go to school to study this stuff (but for that matter, I didn't go to school to learn how to write air traffic control software, either), and I'm finding there isn't really any one definitive book on "here's how it's done in the real world."
Coming from a musician background, I'm used to everything being completely rehearsed and ready to go before you hit the stage and the drummer counts it off. In a similar manner, as a software developer, I'm used to knowing what I need to write before I write it. Well, in a perfect world, anyway.
Sounds like the real world of movie and TV is to get highly organized in terms of scheduling and people prior to the shoot, but from a creative aspect just having a rough framework to get everyone an idea of what's going on, and then spontaneously bringing it to life once you're on the set. Helps a lot to know this.
I learned to play guitar by listening to Clapton, Hendrix and Page and then figuring out how they did it. My approach to making videos is much the same.
By the way, I see the term "master" used a lot. What does it mean?
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19. Re: Shooting script / workflow
able123 Jan 23, 2011 9:39 AM (in response to Christopher Duncan)chris,
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there was recently a bit of a flap where MS started backpedaling on their future plans for Silverlight and leaning towards HTML 5 instead.
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sheesh.... I guess its like that code you mentioned you have to detect stuff, its in the near term gonna boil down to delivery to a few different things ( like the flash vs ogg stuff (html5), different browsers and mobile devices etc )...
Kirk is pretty sold on silverlight at the moment...has been for a while.
wouldnt it just take a change in compiling on the server side to deliver stuff written for silverlight to both silverlight and html5 ? If I recall, the asp.net and code behind on server gets request from user, accesses database etc, delivers compiled html ( dont know if compiled is the right word ? ) to the user...so changing that on the server side wouldnt be that tough would it? duh... this is why I get headaches thinking about stuff I know nothing about... sorta like editing now that I think about it all....or sound stuff...
or the zoology of snakes !
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20. Re: Shooting script / workflow
Christopher Duncan Jan 23, 2011 9:41 AM (in response to able123)Trust me, I'm a programmer - I already have a big whiteboard!
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21. Re: Shooting script / workflow
Christopher Duncan Jan 23, 2011 9:47 AM (in response to able123)I worked briefly with Silverlight 1.0, declared it Not Ready For Prime Time and haven't looked at it since, so I couldn't speak intelligently on either that or HTML 5. Long ago I learned the value of being able to say, "I don't know" instead of pretending otherwise.
Hard to tell what MS will do from one year to the next because internally they have lots of different tribes who really don't talk to each other. But I don't think his investment in Silverlight will be invalidated any time soon. Worst case scenario they may just be slower to add enhancements to it, but I don't think they're going to pull the plug on it. After all, Netflix runs Silverlight.
Well, so much for morning (afternoon!) coffee. Back to work!
I'll email you later on SQL stuff.
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22. Re: Shooting script / workflow
able123 Jan 23, 2011 10:06 AM (in response to Christopher Duncan)Chris,
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I'll email you later on SQL stuff.
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cool. thanks !
master....usually a fairly wide shot of scene including all players...lets say this is the scene ---
Two people walk out of restaurant, walk down sidewalk while talking, stop on sidewalk and face each other and finish talking about whatever....
master would be dolly move seeing them come out, track with them walking down and stopping, and stay there wide for the whole scene. thats the master. then you go to one side , then the other ( finish everything on one side first due to lighting ( key etc ) -then go to other side, staying on correct side of axis...or people wont be looking in the right direction on screen )...with more people and angles this becomes a little more tricky ( the axis thing ).
anyway, you intercut between that master and the coverage of both sides and closeups throughout the scene..going tight when some imortant "reaction" or "expression" is matching dialogue / story ....going wide ( back to master ) when someone stomps their foot down or something or waves arms around like crazy...going back into coverage to continue conversation etc....
ps...the real tricky part.. most people now shoot the entire scene ( in this case from where they enter the 2 shot coverage ) from both sides as both 2 shots and close ups... meaning for every take the talent goes through the whole scene when they land in that spot on the sidewalk....
to save tons of time and all that a few directors ( real good ones ) will just shoot the parts they NEED from those angles....not the entire scene over and over....this is very rare nowadays....for a few reasons....all of them stupid reasons IMO. That guy I mentioned that shot 12 angry men shoots what he NEEDS...and we call these "pickup" shots...its the coverage, but truncated to just get what is gonna be used in post and shown on screen... This is really rare now, unfortunately.. it wears out the talent and takes a longer day to shoot the entire scene over and over and over....but that's life in the big city....I got nothing to say about it ...and half the time the "orders" to shoot the whole scene like that come from production, editors and bean counters... who aren't sure themselves how the story is gonna unfold....who will be featured etc...is like a crap shoot....
very few directors are good enough to have this stuff in their heads , worked out what they need...and also have the "clout" to do what they want....there are higher powers !
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23. Re: Shooting script / workflow
able123 Jan 23, 2011 10:20 AM (in response to able123)Chris,
going one step further , re notes a director uses along with script...etc...
same scene as above...people leave restaurant, walk down sidewalk, stop and talk...
lets say its like this:
Joe: Now, wait a minute.... you said you would MARRY me and now you say you dont want to ???
( joe waves arms frantically )
You said you LOVE me !
Mary: That was yesterday. This is TODAY !
( mary stomps foot )
(Joe hangs head looking forlorn)
Mary: Come on ....we'll miss the bus !
( they walk off to the bus stop )
In your notes you could circle parts of that script and in the borders make notes....like ( joe waves frantically) is a wide shot...got that in master...
" you said you would MARRY ME and now...." on MARRY ME could be a close up ( pickup )
also, CU on mary for that , for her facial expression in reaction to him saying " you would MARRY me..." another pickup...
In other words, you COULD make notes on your script and on other blank pages in your notebook how you are going to edit this scene and just shoot what you NEED...rather than go through the entire scene over and over and over...
Those are the notes you would see that the director is using... whether he does in fact get to shoot what he wants is another matter...
Also....lets say mary has a bus schedule and glances at it as she says " come on , or we'll miss the bus"....director would make note on script to do a CU insert shot of that schedule ( maybe...this is a bad example for doing that sort of thing cause who cares what the bus thing says...but you get the idea )
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24. Re: Shooting script / workflow
able123 Jan 23, 2011 10:38 AM (in response to able123)and finally...one more note about the shooting script and directors notes...
this too changes as time goes on...
the director makes notes and so on re: shots after he reads the script ( having accepted the job ) ...before location scouts etc...
after scouting changes are made..this effects the schedule of shots and the call sheets etc...
as stuff is shot in reality some stuff gets thrown out ( couldnt get ) and some stuff changes....( weather, access to location , whatever )...so notes change some more...sometimes stuff is re-written by writers to accomodate these changes....and thats where all the organization and preparation and everything comes into play a lot...and good crew matters...to help solve these problems as they are occuring... DP obviously helps DIR with the actual master and coverage setups and makes sure camera is doing its job, and sometimes the DIR will just deal with talent to get the best out of their acting...and totally let the DP setup the shots...its different with every job --- that relationship and the give and take and so on that goes on...
K, now you know as much as me about this stuff...







