7 Replies Latest reply: Feb 22, 2011 12:52 PM by peter at knowhowpro RSS

    overlapping paragraphs?

    phyllisj9 Community Member

      How can I overlap paragraphs?  I have a fully justified paragraph followed by a right-aligned paragraph.  The fully justified paragraph ends with a short last line, and there'd be room for the right-aligned paragraph to start on the same baseline (and that would be useful in this particular layout).  What's a good way to do that?  I tried applying baseline shift to the entire right-aligned paragraph, but that messes up everything after it. If I try to make it part of the justified paragraph, it loses its alignment.  There are only a few instances where I'd like to do this, but I can't think of a good idea for it.

       

      Hope that made sense.

       

      Thanks, Phyllis

        • 1. Re: overlapping paragraphs?
          P Spier CommunityMVP

          One thought that comes to mind would be to split the story into two threaded frames at that break, then overlap the frames.Putting the second paragraph in an anchored frame with text wrap applied might also work, but it would be a lot harder to edit, in my opinion, down the road.

           

          But hang out for a while, there may be more sophisticated ideas from Peter Gold or Jongware (Peter in particular has some clever ways to mimic feturess that were availble in FrameMaker that are missing in ID).

          • 2. Re: overlapping paragraphs?
            [Jongware]-9BC6tI Community Member

            I'll gladly hand this over to Peter G. -- I'm clueless.

            • 3. Re: overlapping paragraphs?
              peter at knowhowpro Community Member

              P Spier wrote:

               

              One thought that comes to mind would be to split the story into two threaded frames at that break, then overlap the frames.Putting the second paragraph in an anchored frame with text wrap applied might also work, but it would be a lot harder to edit, in my opinion, down the road.

              But hang out for a while, there may be more sophisticated ideas from Peter Gold or Jongware (Peter in particular has some clever

              AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH! This is what I get for becoming known for being clever! I'll be careful what I wish for in the future.<G>

               

              FrameMaker has a paragraph property called "run-in." A run-in paragraph has a paragraph end property - with hidden characters ON, it looks like an ordinary pilcrow (¶), but it's only a paragraph end, not the common combination of paragraph end (AKA "carriage return") and a new line (AKA "line feed.")

               

              Because it doesn't start a new line, the following paragraph begins immediately after the paragraph end. It's terrific for heading paragraphs introduce body paragraphs right after, but they don't consume a line of depth, therefore saving paper, while also making a smoother connection for readers between an introduction to a topic, and the topic itself. Another major benefit is that, being a paragraph, it can be extracted to a TOC!

               

              InDesign's nested-character and GREP paragraph styles can format a paragraph's beginning differently from the remainder, but they can't be extracted for a TOC. If you like how this feature sounds, submit a formal request for run-in paragraphs, and character-style-based TOC extraction at https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform.

               

              FrameMaker drops the user-specified default trailing punctuation of run-in paragraphs when they're extracted to a TOC, but if the user manually types in trailing punctuation, it's retained in the TOC.

               

              Cool, eh?

               

              I was going to suggest the overlapping text frame approach that Peter S. already did. You can indent the first line of the overlaid paragraph to a fixed position, but, as Peter S. notes about text wrap, later editing may need manual attention.

               

              As long as manual effort might be needed, you might want to manually type new paragraph content on the last line of the first paragraph and start the next paragraph normally. You might want to apply a "featureless" character style to the manually-typed content, either manually, or via a nested style, so you can find it quickly for later editing.

               

               

              HTH

               

              Regards,

               

              Peter

              _______________________

              Peter Gold

              KnowHow ProServices

              • 4. Re: overlapping paragraphs?
                phyllisj9 Community Member

                Wow, I guess that was a more complicated question than I expected!  Thought maybe I was missing something obvious.  Thanks for the ideas on different frames etc.  I hate that it couldn't be all one frame, but the manual effort would proably make this look better.  But the Framemaker run-in property sounds like it's what I really need!!!  That would have been perfect for this.  Drat.

                 

                Thanks, Phyllis

                • 5. Re: overlapping paragraphs?
                  peter at knowhowpro Community Member

                  phyllisj9 wrote:

                   

                  Wow, I guess that was a more complicated question than I expected!  Thought maybe I was missing something obvious.  Thanks for the ideas on different frames etc.  I hate that it couldn't be all one frame, but the manual effort would proably make this look better.  But the Framemaker run-in property sounds like it's what I really need!!!  That would have been perfect for this.  Drat.

                   

                  Thanks, Phyllis

                  Does "drat" mean "I'm really going to file a formal feature request with Adobe?"

                   

                  Regards,

                   

                  Peter

                  _______________________

                  Peter Gold

                  KnowHow ProServices

                  • 6. Re: overlapping paragraphs?
                    phyllisj9 Community Member

                    peter at knowhowpro wrote:


                    Does "drat" mean "I'm really going to file a formal feature request with Adobe?"

                     

                     

                    Hah!  I get the impression that's just a black hole, though maybe I should.

                     

                    Thanks, Phyllis

                    • 7. Re: overlapping paragraphs?
                      peter at knowhowpro Community Member

                      phyllisj9 wrote:

                       

                      peter at knowhowpro wrote:


                      Does "drat" mean "I'm really going to file a formal feature request with Adobe?"

                       

                       

                      Hah!  I get the impression that's just a black hole, though maybe I should.

                       

                      Thanks, Phyllis

                      It's a black hole if you expect instant results, or even results in the next release. However quantity matters - the more votes for a feature, the more likely it will happen sometime. Do the InDesign community a service, and yourself a favor, and post a request.

                       

                      Regards,

                       

                      Peter

                      _______________________

                      Peter Gold

                      KnowHow ProServices