18 Replies Latest reply: Mar 1, 2011 10:56 AM by Noel Carboni RSS

    smart objects pixelized

    sfrog

      Hi all,

       

      today i met a problem, which seems pretty mysterious to me.

      When converting a few text- and freeform layers (or even a single freeform shape layer) into a smart object and scaling the smart object, it behaves as it was a common pixel layer (see image below).

       

      Just can't find a way to fix it. Never encountered that problem before.

       

      Your help is apppreciated

       

      Thank you!

      Lukas

       

      s_object_freeform.png

        • 1. Re: smart objects pixelized
          shunithD Community Member

          sfrog wrote:

           

          Hi all,

           

          today i met a problem, which seems pretty mysterious to me.

          When converting a few text- and freeform layers (or even a single freeform shape layer) into a smart object and scaling the smart object, it behaves as it was a common pixel layer (see image below). <snipped>

          Hi... Maybe it's a question of 'Snap to Pixels'... see this thread...

           

          http://forums.adobe.com/message/3491881#3491881

          • 2. Re: smart objects pixelized
            JJMack Community Member

            Here is my guess . While a shape layer is vector based that used a vector layer mask my guess is when you convert at shape layer into a smart object that Photoshop rastersized the shape layer during the conversion into a smart  object layer.

             

            You may want to do a little experiment to test my theory out.  Open a new document and create your shape layer some size. Then save the document as a PSD file. Now open the document you have the pixelated smart object layer in and delete that layer. Now Place in that PSD file you just created.  It will be a smart Object Layer  however that smart object Layer base is a file a PSD file with a  vector shape layer in it.  It is not some layer conversion that Photoshop did.  When you double click on this smart object layer Photoshop will open it as a document and any changed to make to it when saved will be reflected in the smart object. I would think in this case it you were to resize this type of smart object layer Photoshop would have to preserve the PSD file within the smart object therefore have to transform the embedded PSD and transform its vector based shape layer.  It just my educated guess and I'm Irish and sometime lucky.

             

            The question I ask you why did you convert the vector base shape layer into a smart object?.  Shape layers should transform like you want.

            • 3. Re: smart objects pixelized
              sfrog Community Member

              JJMack,

               

              tested your theory out, but the smart object showed the same behaviour.

              Would be interesting to know whether your local photoshop treats smart objects the same way or is it a question of preferences?

               

              @shunithD: I don't think, that there is a "snap-to-pixels" checkbox when handling a smart object, is it?

               

              The reason i convert a set of shapes into a smart object is that i need this set of shapes in different documents and don't want to do changes in every document.

              • 4. Re: smart objects pixelized
                shunithD Community Member

                sfrog wrote:

                @shunithD: I don't think, that there is a "snap-to-pixels" checkbox when handling a smart object, is it?

                Have you read the thread i pointed you to? Check it out... you might find (some) answers there. To quote:

                 

                "If your using the shape tools, some of the shapes like the Rectangle

                Tool have a snap to pixels option. (turn it on before drawing the shape)."

                • 5. Re: smart objects pixelized
                  JJMack Community Member

                  sfrog wrote:

                   

                  The reason i convert a set of shapes into a smart object is that i need this set of shapes in different documents and don't want to do changes in every document.

                  If you have a set of lets say shape layer and text layers in a document that you also want in a different document why not just open both documents in Photoshop. Then in the layers pallet of the documents that has the layers in it that you also want in the other document click on the top later you want to target it then hold the control key down and click on the othere layers you want. When all the layers you want are targeted select the move tool hold down the shift key and from the layers palette drag all the targeted layers over and drop them on the second document. 

                  • 6. Re: smart objects pixelized
                    Noel Carboni Community Member

                    Maybe he just wants to be able to change them all at once and have the changes propagate to all the images based on those smart objects.  Perhaps the marketing people haven't quite settled on the company colors yet or something.

                     

                    -Noel

                    • 7. Re: smart objects pixelized
                      sfrog Community Member

                      That's exactly the point, thanks Noel.

                       

                      JJMack, I'm grateful for your suggestion, but i'd like to maintain my current workflow for it is very flexible and convenient - if it works.

                       

                      @all: Do you encounter the same effect when you convert a shape to a smart object and resize it afterwards? So is this the common way Photoshop treats smart objects or is it a problem with my local copy of Photoshop?

                      • 8. Re: smart objects pixelized
                        MTSTUNER Community Member

                        Check under Preferences>General and make sure the Interpolation choice is

                        set to bicubic.

                         

                        If that doesn't make any difference, try resetting the photoshop preferences

                        by holding down the Alt+Ctrl+Shift keys while starting photoshop and then click yes

                        in the dialog that follows asking if you want to reset the settings file.

                         

                         

                         

                         

                        MTSTUNER

                        • 9. Re: smart objects pixelized
                          sfrog Community Member

                          So I resetted my preferences, but still the same issue.

                           

                          Chossing a different interpolation mode takes effect on the way Photoshop draws the edges when scaling the object...but it is still treated like a pixel layer.

                           

                          I assume, that's just the way Photoshop handles smart objects, right? Do you experience the same effect?

                          • 10. Re: smart objects pixelized
                            PECourtejoie CommunityMVP

                            Hello!

                            What is the resolution of the file you are working on?

                            • 11. Re: smart objects pixelized
                              JJMack Community Member

                              sfrog wrote:

                               

                              @all: Do you encounter the same effect when you convert a shape to a smart object and resize it afterwards? So is this the common way Photoshop treats smart objects or is it a problem with my local copy of Photoshop?

                              To tell the truth yes you loose some qauality when you transform a smart object layes made from a shape but you only really see this when you transform this smart object layer way up up size a size largers then the size it was when converted to a smart object.  You don't see pixlation when you make thing smaller because your throughing detail away when you make thing smaller.  When you make things larger you trying to invent detail.  Therefore when I make things I feel I will want to use in the future and may change its size.  I create the Image/PSD/Smart Object etc the largest size I think I may ever want to use it.  So transforme will be down in size. 

                               

                              From what I inderstand when a smart object layer is transformed the transfrom start from the pixels Photoshop would render the original object with.  Try this create a PSD file with all the shape layers and text layers intact.  Now place the PSD file into you documents as a smart object layer.   Transform the layer way up in size and commit the transform so the transform is actually done and you not just looking at the transform preview.  Yes you will see the pixlation you writting about.  However the smart Object layer is no ordanary layer it actually has the full layerd psd file in there.   Ctrl-z and back out the freetransform.  Next double click on the smart object icon in the layers palette on that layer.  Photoshop will reopen the smart object embedded PSD in Photoshop.   Use Image Size to increase the  size LARGE all layers will be transformed in size not as pixels layers but as shapes and text layers.  Then do a menu file>save.  The size change will be reflected into the smart object layer. The resize done I beleive the way you want it done. I play little mind games in Photoshop when I want to see how thing work.  This is off the top of my head it could be wrong however I not wrong all the time.  This time I may be right???

                              • 12. Re: smart objects pixelized The Answer IS
                                JJMack Community Member

                                All Smart Object Layers are not created Equal.

                                 

                                There are more then one way to work with Smart Object Layers

                                 

                                Different Types of Layers  Transforms Differently

                                 

                                Pixel Layers are Transformed by using interpolation

                                Text Layers are Transformed by changing the Font Size

                                Shape Layers are Transformed by Scaling the Layer's Vector Layer Mask

                                Smart Object Layers are Transform from the pixels Photoshop would render the smart object layer with ie like a pixel layer by using interpolation

                                HOWEVER this is not the only way to change the scale of a Smart Object Layer

                                REMEMBER all smart object layers are NOT created equal

                                If you create a Smart Object Layer using ACR open Object  then inside that smart object layer is  RAW file

                                If you create the Smart Object Layer by Placing a Layered PSD file then inside that smart object layer is Layered PSD file

                                If you create the Smart Object Layer by converting a vector shape layer then inside that smart object layer is a vector shape layer

                                If you create the Smart Object Layer by converting a Raster Layer then inside that smart object layer is a Raster Layer

                                If you have merges shape layers with text layers you will have a  Raster Layer

                                 

                                Now if you double click on the smart object icon in the layers palette  in a smart object layer Photoshop will open what is inside that smart object layer into a new document.  If you use Image Size to increase this new documents size you even have the option to scale Layer styles during the re sizing.  Layer Style are created for a particular size most setting are in pixel size absolute values.  The only way I know of to scale layer styles well is with the image size option. Now when you resize a document layers sizes change the way that type of layer transform.  So if the smart object layer contained any vector shape layer there vector mask are scaled.

                                 

                                After you use Image Size you then use menu File>Save and menu>File>Close.   This size change will be reflected in Smart Object Layer its size will have change.

                                 

                                 

                                If your smart object layer was created by converting a vector shape layer when you double click its layers smart object icon you will find yourself in an open document with a single shape layer.  Use Image>Size, File>Save, File>Close  Now how does your smart object layer look......

                                • 13. Re: smart objects pixelized
                                  sfrog Community Member

                                  Hi, i'm working on 300DPI. Does it make any difference?

                                  • 14. Re: smart objects pixelized
                                    Reynolds (Mark) Community Member

                                    Your Smart Object with the vector circle inside it is too small. Open it, upsize it, and save it. Upsize it by changing the resolution, not the physical size of the document.

                                    • 15. Re: smart objects pixelized
                                      JJMack Community Member

                                      Smart Object Layer resize three side by side three  results.

                                       

                                      I resized up big time.  Started by creating a 300x200 PSD file with three layers two shape layers and a text layer with layer style added. The layer style contained a stroke gradient overlay shadow and more. Fitst shape layer Pink Photoshop Cloud. Second shape layer Blue Photoshop Male shape. Top Layer Text JJMack. Link 138KB PSD file http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/logopsd.psd

                                      here it is saved as Jpeg http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/logopsd.jpg

                                      I then Photoshop new Document 3000x2000 ten times the size.  Did menu File>Place and placed in the losopsd.psd file just hit enter did not to any transform.

                                      Then three times with the placed smart object layer the target I did menu Layers>Smart Objecj>New Smart Object via Copy. I now had three more copies.

                                      I double clicked on the smart object icon on the botom most copy in the layers palette

                                      In Photosop menu Image>Size in the dialog checked Resample and Constrain not Layer Styles Bicubic set width 3000 click OK

                                      Menu File>Save followed by File>Close

                                       

                                      I double clicked on the smart object icon on the middle copy in the layers palette

                                      In Photosop menu Image>Size in the dialog checked Resample, Constrain and  Layer Styles Bicubic set width 3000 click OK

                                      Menu File>Save followed by File>Close

                                      I clickcked once of the top copy in the layers palett, Then Ctr-T and changed the 100% in the width and height to 1000% and committed the transform

                                      I selected the Left  third rectangle 1000 Px by 2000 PX and added a layer Mask

                                      Target middle copy Selected left 2/3 2000Px by 2000 PX and added a layer Mask  Saved as PSD and Saved as Jpeg

                                      Link to 15MB PSD http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/3000x2000.psd

                                      Here is the Jpeg Link http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/3000x2000.jpg    Scroll the below image sideways to see how different the three are click on the jpg link to have your browser scale it down also note how scalling down seems to sharpen..http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/3000x2000.jpg

                                      • 16. Re: smart objects pixelized
                                        Reynolds (Mark) Community Member

                                        Oh fer f…! Smart Objects work based on the physical size (inches or centimetres) of the document and the embedded Object. For example if you have a document which is 4 inches by 4 inches, and placed inside it a Smart object which is also 4 inches by 4 inches, it will cover the entire document area, at 100%, unless its transformed in size. This is the case regardless of how many pixels are in the Smart Object or Parent document.

                                         

                                        If you change the resolution (the PPI) of the smart object WITHOUT changing the physical dimensions, the Smart Object will contain more pixels, so it may appear sharper if its a vector. But it will not change its placement or size in the master document. If on the other hand you change the size of the document above to 200%, the physical dimensions will change to  8 inches by 8 inches. So the object will double in size in the master document.

                                         

                                        It all works on Physical (arbitary) measurements of the document, and Smart Object. But however you do it you need to have enough pixels within the Smart Object to make sure that it renders sharply in the parent document.

                                        • 17. Re: smart objects pixelized
                                          JJMack Community Member

                                          Reynolds (Mark) wrote:

                                           

                                          Oh fer f…! Smart Objects work based on the physical size (inches or centimetres) of the document and the embedded Object. For example if you have a document which is 4 inches by 4 inches, and placed inside it a Smart object which is also 4 inches by 4 inches, it will cover the entire document area, at 100%, unless its transformed in size. This is the case regardless of how many pixels are in the Smart Object or Parent document.

                                           

                                          If you change the resolution (the PPI) of the smart object WITHOUT changing the physical dimensions, the Smart Object will contain more pixels, so it may appear sharper if its a vector. But it will not change its placement or size in the master document. If on the other hand you change the size of the document above to 200%, the physical dimensions will change to  8 inches by 8 inches. So the object will double in size in the master document.

                                           

                                          It all works on Physical (arbitary) measurements of the document, and Smart Object. But however you do it you need to have enough pixels within the Smart Object to make sure that it renders sharply in the parent document.

                                          What you write is correct.  However as I demonstrated above you can edit the embedded smart object itsself in Photoshop and make changes to the object by double clicking on its smart object icon in the layer in the layers palette.  How Photoshop changes the embedded objects depends the Photoshop tools you use, how you use them, and on the contents of the object.  The Object itself may be layered and layers can have different sizes you could can change the size a layer and not the over all size of the embeded object when you save and close the embeded object the changes you made will be reflected into the smart object  layer that you doubled clicked on its icon.   You can do all sort of editing on the object itself change size visibility opacity etc.

                                          • 18. Re: smart objects pixelized
                                            Noel Carboni Community Member

                                            Very informative, JJMack.  Your example clearly shows how the Transform operation affects the size of the objects but not (all) the effects.

                                             

                                            It's especially interesting how the metallic bevel contour effect pretty much reversed itself between the first and 2nd/3rd sections.

                                             

                                            -Noel