More information to add to this: the same exact file that I sent you last night had more type changes this morning.
It was the first file of the day opened in InDesign CS5 and it hung on making the PDF.
After crashing out of the program and restarting it, it made the PDF in about 6 seconds.
Well, it looks like I'm back to locking up on every second document again today.
I've not heard anything at all back since sending in that last test file.
I'm merely adding my lone voice here. New installation of CS5 InDesign (and rest of suite) on new computer (Win7 64 bit). Latest updates in place for Windows and Indesign (7.03). Open and work on CS4 file that is somewhat critical for work, and everything behaves as it should - until pdf export. Makes no difference if I try Adobe-supplied settings or my own tweaks, working from presets: the export hangs at 0 (in the background tasks panel) for a single page output (or any output). I can continue to use Indesign, but not save any changes etc because the file is in use. Every time, no exceptions. Exported as IDML and imported again; no change.
I can report that the script linked a few messages back for forcing a foreground export worked first time - perfect (though a pain to have to save a pdf by this route instead of simply getting on with life and work, and I have lost faith in CS5 over this and will probably revert to CS4 for other jobs, itself a pain given that I'll be working on an old computer). This pdf export really does need a fix - can not Adobe add the ability to turn off all background tasks and thus revert to CS4 behaviour? Perhaps that's simplistic but I'd like to be given choice ...
Summary: pdf export broken; forcing foreground creation solves it while adding another layer of fiddling (for me).
Your problem may run deeper than just the PDF export. Opening legacy files directly in CS5 has proved in some cases to be prone to hidden problems which often don't show up until after you've been editing for a while. I recommend exporting all legacy files to .inx from the original versions, then opening that rather than the .indd in CS5 when doing a conversion. This is more reliable than exporting to .idml from CS5 after problems show up.
In this case, quite a lot of work has been done on this file since opening it in CS5 (it's a magazine destined for print), so reopening the original CS4 file is no longer an option. I understand your message though - wish I'd have known of this problem before getting to this point. I don't ever buy into 'new' software upgrades when they first appear because of hassles such as this, and naively thought that such a major issue would not still be so prevalent.
Would an export to IDML, open and save in CS4 and export from there as IDML to reimport into CS5 have any benefit? All I can state as certain is that a foreground pdf creation works fine.
It certainly won't hurt, though I would suggest .inx rather than .idml from CS4. If you've used any new CS5 features, they'll get mangled, though, and check line ediings carefully after a round-trip.
You did say, though, that foreground exporting was working all right, so maybe you shouldn't waste time on this one. Let me ask, though, if you routinely take an old issue and "recycle it into a new one? That's a flawed workflow, too, prone to creeping incremental corruption.
ID is the most stable and eliable layout program I've used, but it isn't perfect, and the more times you save a file the more likely it is that some corruption will creep in. Most of the time this isn't fatal, and you may not even be aware that it's there, until one day, on deadline of course and when you've just finished editing the entire issue, the file suddenly stops working and gives you nasty error messages about being "damaged." We see this here at least once a year.
Far better to make a template with the styles, swatches, and static content, and keep repeating, but not permanent, content in a library or folder of snippets, then open a new file froom the template for each issue and drag in the repeated content. This is probably just as fast as going through and deleting unused content from the previous issue, and insures that every issues starts out as a clean copy of the template.
I tried out the round-trip, reimporting from a .inx, but there was no difference in the end - the pdf creation still hangs in process, though Indesign does not (but won't allow anything to save or further export).
I can't truthfully claim to be 'clean' in never reusing an old file and updating it, but this particular file was recently created from scratch in CS4 but partly worked on before importing into CS5 for completion. It still isn't completed so I'm thankful that I fund this error at this stage, instead of right on deadline. Slapped wrist for not reverting to a template every single time, but it's a separate issue to this one (in that if I can foreground export with no difficulties, then it's something within Indesign that isn't working as it should for background export, as far as I'm concerned).
Thanks for your added info.
Have you looked at Matthew Laun's posts on the previous page of this thread? If you're up to date (patched to 7.0.3) and follow his instructions for restarting, and the file still fails to export inthe background, he's going to want to see it.
I'll look back at that earlier post asap - thanks for that note ...
I've been experimenting. Don't know how much this might reveal to anyone with more knowledge than me, but here goes with some (to me) odd results; someone might benefit.
Recap: my problem file is one started in CS4 and worked on in CS5. It will export pdf with a foreground script and a saved preset, but not the 'proper' export using saved presets and a background export.
I went back to CS4 and opened the original file. I stripped out all content from every page (guidelines, anything) but did not touch anything on master pages (there are about 12 of these in pairs, with linked graphic content and footer text and tint boxes and so on). I exported that as .inx and brought it into CS5. The background pdf creation worked fine (though I'd much rather have the older foreground where I could watch the export for a few seconds until the pdf automatically opened in Acrobat).
I then opened the CS5 file with page content and began copying/pasting each page into the new file. After every page, which variously contain linked photos, graduated tints and all sorts of elements, I ran the pdf creation and it worked every time. This could just mean that something was missed in the old file for copying over, or my creating layers again or other changes were instrumental in this. BUT:
With the old file still open in CS5, the pdf creation would NOT work. Background tasks stayed at 0 (once only I saw it reach 2%) and I was unable to close the file. The moment I closed that old file (which was saved and merely open in Indesign), the pdf was correctly produced. If I closed that file before creating the pdf, it proceeded immediately.
I also noted the creation of locked files (.idlk) for any file that had failed to produce its pdf in earlier tests, and that I cannot manually delete even with Indesign and Acrobat shut down (says they are in use in System).
I really don't understand how Adobe has got away with releasing such an incredibly bad 'update' of InDesign and Acrobat. While Photoshop, Illustrator and all other programs seem fine, InDesign CS5 drives myself and my team to distraction on regular occasions, mostly for things that used to work fine in CS3 but are now broken or unstable. This needs to be fixed NOW. It's not about the odd machine having 'unusual' configurations, or errors creeping in because a file started out from CS3 or CS4 – stop with the excuses – YOU HAVE SCREWED UP INDESIGN CS5 – admit it and get it damn well fixed. Millions of people have spent thousands of hard earned dollars 'upgrading' to this software - the least they can expect is that it works as well as previous versions at a MINIMUM.
If you had bothered to read the thread, you'd have seen that the only Adobe employee here is Matthew Laun, and he actually HAS BEEN working on fixing this. Most users no longer experience problems exporting to PDF since the 7.0.3 update, but apparently there are still some unidentified problems. The only way to solve those problems is to be able to reproduce them, and the only way the engineers can do that is if they see your files that 100% of the time display the error. or if less often you can identify a set of circumsatnces or steps that will 100% of the time cause a failure.
Have you done anything to help solve the problem, or do you prefer to yell at your fellow users?
Apologies Peter – a foolish rant at a late hour where I am (Bahrain), after experiencing significant difficulties with CS5 again to make a pdf for a job, required to be signed off tomorrow, to go to print on Sunday. I do of course appreciate those like Matthew Laun who take the time to help users. I'm not usually the ranting type – it's just a reflection of how let down I feel with CS5, from a company I have always supported. I have indeed been in touch with someone from WinSoft, who service Adobe out here to try to resolve these issues, but still have regular problems with both InDesign and Acrobat. 30 seconds after I wrote my comment here in fact, InDesign crashed again. But point taken – it's been a long day here, so I'm going home now and will try again in the morning. Have a good evening!
I have to tell you that using the ME version adds a whole additional layer of complexity to the issue. Winsoft writes the code to handle most of the RTL functionality and it copuld also be somewhere in there that your problem lies.
Frequent crashing of any version of ID is not normal, however, and usually does turn out to be system related rather than a bug, but it's possible the work you do runs into whatever triggers a bug on a regular basis.
I feel I am between a rock and a hard place with CS5. Following Adobe's instructions for a successful install, I wiped all previous versions of CS from my computer and installed CS5. Although I am experiencing more InDesign problems than just with pdfs, the problems are intermittent. I feel critcism of Adobe is valid and the frustration shown by capital letters in a post is understandable. Is any criticism of Adobe seen as a rant?
I have converted too many of my old CS4 files to CS5 to easily revert to CS4 - which would solve my problem. I could offer up one of my files for testing, but the packaged folder weighs in at 1Gb.
Well it's too bad you listened to a robot reading from a script on the phone instead of asking real users about uninstalling old versions. Anyone here would have told you to leave the old versions in place. All versions of InDesing can live quite happily together on the same machine except if you try to install two different regionalizations of the same version (like English and ME). That's ok if the differnt regioanlizations are also different versions.
It's not too late of course. You can uninstall CS5, then reinsatll all your previous versions in chronological order and finally reinstall CS5. In your shoes, that's what I would do.
We all understand how frustrating it can be when things don't work the way we think they should (especially if that's the way they were designed to work), but ranting here doesn't do anything but make you feel a little better. It doesn't solve your problem, and it doesn't breed a lot of sympathy from those who might be able to help you.
Just want your opinion. For too long now I have been afraid of
responding to any posts on the web because the aggro isn't worth it,
however this time I just had to speak up. Have a look at this link and
check out the post I was reacting to - which is 5 up from where this
link takes you. It is by Hamb1e and he has a few capital letters in his
post (gasp). Goanna2 responds a few posts later and gets kicked in
passing as well.
What I would like you to gauge is the tone of the first post by Hamb1e
and the tone of Goanna2's reply.
When I say reacting - I mean reacting to how he was treated.
Who's Dave? your post is in response to mine.
Just for clarification, since perhaps you haven't read this entire thread, either, the whole thing has been about identifying and solving a problem with background export. It's a known problem, and it has been addressed as far as the problem has been able to be diagnosed. It appears there are still some other, differernt, issues that may be trigger background export failure, but so far Matthew has not told us that he has been able to isolate any for sure. That doesn't mean he isn't trying or that he hasn't actually found some new problem and a solution is in the testing phase.
Ranting is non-productive. This is a user forum, not tech support (and ranting at tech support isn't prodcutive, either), but in this thread we are fortunate to have Matthew's attention and participation. Yes, I called Hamb1e on the rant, and he apologized in the next repsonse. If he is able to provide meaningful clues about the file and steps being taken before the crashes, it's possible one of us can offer some help, and yes, we do offer help. I see you've posted before and recieved some advice, so you know this.
I really am sorry you uninstalled your previous versions. That's not the fault of anyone here, and it can be fixed. Evidently you've been having some problems for quite a while, but rather than try to solve them you've concluded that Adobe has produced defective software and it's easier to do nothing. The software is far from perfect, but for 99% of users it works just as advertised, and most problems turn out to be relatively easy to solve, but only if you describe them in enough detail for diagnosis. I'm not trying to kick you now, and I wasn't kicking you earlier. I'm trying to explain that getting help here is a two-way street.
I never saw a single problem converting my own legacy files to CS5 in the first six months or so that I used the program, but there is enough anecdotal evidence here on the forum to convince me that there can be issues in CS5 that were not seen in previous versions when opening legacy files directly, and that sometimes those issues are not apparent until the file has been significantly altered. Sometimes exporting the file to .idml will cure these problems, but sometimes not. Almost always the same file, exported to .inx from the original version, tuns out to be trouble-free. In light of this, and because it is "cheap insurance," I now export all files I intend to update from their original versions as a matter of course, and I recommend other users do the same, but it means you must leave your old versions in place or reinstall them. ID must be installed in chronological order (as I mentioned in a previous post), so if you need to reinstall the old versions, you must uninstall CS5 first.
What a nightmare scenario. A mis-click of the omg variety. I wanted to
get independent opinion as to whether I had misread the tone of the posts.
I have been having trouble for a while but reverting to CS4 is not
something I really want to do. I enjoy the benefits of CS5 too much to
give it away for a glitch that I can work around - using the script from
InDesign Secrets is one way, adjusting my working habits is another.
I apologise unreservedly for causing a ruckus, and I appreciate the
trouble you have taken with me. One thing I haven't tried is to export
my CS5 files as indl and then reopen them.
Well I really do aplologize if you felt offended or picked upon.
As far as going back to CS4, I wouldn't do that either, but I wholeheartedly recommend you go through the pain of reinstalling it, and CS3 if you have that, too. I keep versions going all the way back to 2.0 for working with legacy files and doing conversions for other users, but seldom open anything older than CS3 these days. Yes it will be a major pain in the neck, but in the long run it will be much better going forward. As I think I said, exporting a problem file in CS5 after conversion is not nearly as reliable as exporting the orginal before conversion. The procedure, in case you are not familiar, is described in Remove minor corruption by exporting. Also, I think Matthew has described earlier in this thread a few things you can try regarding the export problem in addition to switching to foreground export.
You'll also have the ability to leave a file in the original version when making minor changes, should you want to do that. I'm doing a second edition of a fairly long book for a client now, for example, and I'm leaving it in CS4 so I don't have to worry about text reflow except where I'm editing.
I saw in one of your posts from a few months ago that one of your problems was with panels not displaying content, I think. That's a symptom of corrupt preferences, which can cause all sorts of other strange behavior as well. Have you had a look at Replace Your Preferences? Your next question would logically be why prefs get damaged inthe first place, and I can't answer that one -- too many variables. Some people have trouble once a month, others no more often than once every couple of years. Crashing would be a possible cause, though, as well as an effect of corrupt prefs. If you find yourself replacing them every few days, or even once a week though, I'd be suspicous of some sort of software conflict onthe machine, or maybe a bad font.
Peter - I saw in a previous mail your suggestion of reinstalling CS4 to help with older files, but that it had to
go in before CS5 and thus the latter should be uninstalled first as they have to be loaded in the correct order. Makes sense.
In my case, it's a newly built computer so CS5 is a clean install (or else my older software would still be on it as I don't uninstall it). But, to put in CS4 Indesign must the whole Creative Suite be uninstalled, or only the CS5 Indesign component? The latter might happen, but I can't see me removing the whole suite ...
For InDesign I would suspect it could be done with just the single application, but I'm not sure -- never had to try. But this is another one of those cases where I would probably go with the more painful approach and wipe it all, then install everything agian clean, just so you know it's all in a known good state.
Of course, I have a thing for pain...
Unfortunately, I would have to agree with Peter (I say unfortunately, because I don't like pain, but I believe he is right). We just had to do the same with my boss' computer.
We DID back everything up on Time Machine first. And at Peter's suggestion, we did NOT choose the install from Time Machine option, but we did retain all the files on Time Machine, in case there was something we would need back again.
The computer runs like a brand new computer now, and no more crashes in CS5.
We also had to reinstall CS4, because Acrobat Pro came with CS4, but not CS5 (at least not on the discs we received from Adobe). And we DID have to install the whole suite, in order to get Acrobat to install (perhaps because Acrobat is dependent on at least one other app in the suite in order to enter the licensing — you cannot enter the licensing directly within Acrobat).
I've had ALL of the problems listed in this thread! And I've tried all of the tricks! Recently I took a CS5 created file and tried making the infamous PDF. I tried CS5, CS4 & CS3 and the program was literally shut-down each time. Finally in desperation, I thought to try the "old-fashion" fix that we used to do. Print the file to a PS file. Then use distiller to make the PDF file. Guess what - CS5 has no option to print to file! Well that was frustrating! Then I looked at my list of printers and interestingly I had a print driver for ADOBE PDF. I printed to that and low-and-behold it created a PDF for me! It didn't give me any options for the PDF, but I can go into the PDF properties and pretty much fix anything I need to do! Hope this helps others. I don't look at this as a fix for the CS5 software. It needs to be figured out, but I'll use this in the mean time. I will also be looking around for other software that can do the book typesetting for me without all of these issues - one that truly handles files that have hundreds of pages, makes creating a TOC a breeze and actually does an accurate and complete Index. Does anyone have any recommendations? - Sue
Well, as annoying as this pdf problem is, the solution is as annoying. Yes there is a solution, the only trouble is, I have no idea what it is. All I know is after one of the updates (a few months back) the problem simply went away. Now I have no problems making PDF in CS5 in the background. It doesn't freeze. Thanks for fixing it, whatever it did) but obviously there are still a lot of people suffering with the same problem. I wish I could share my secret with everyone who tried to help, but the truth is, I have no clue. I am happy, that it is fixed.
To my knowledge, there has been no update or further information since a forum user supplied a problematic file earlier in this thread?
The 7.0.3 update addresses what Matthew was able to identify as a primary/common cause of trouble. Obviously there are still some other issues, but anyone who has NOT installed 7.0.3 should do so.
I've installed 7.0.3 but still have erratic crashes exporting PDFs in the background. Running a foreground script to bypass the background task is the only workaround. The same applies for other background tasks, such as exporting idml documents or jpegs. No solution from Adobe support - this is after repeated fresh installs of InDesign.
That is correct. I have received no solution. Matthew was not able to reproduce the issue.
It's Monday, and I am back to crashing on every second PDF.
I have found a solution that seems to work:
If I save the document after printing it, and close it, then open it again, and make the PDF first thing after opening it, it seems to work without crashing. And the first PDF after opening InDesign (either as the first time open for the day, or directly after a crash), also seems to work, no matter what order. But if I open a document, print it, and then make a PDF, it will hang, on any document after the first one.
Incidentally, I have not had any trouble at all exporting PDFs out of Quark (again, that is a foreground task). Don't get me wrong; I have no desire to go back to Quark, but we do still have to work with Quark files on occasion.
So, I cast my vote again for the the option to turn off background PDFing in preferences.
@ChrisH94, and anyone else how has a consistently reproducible PDF export failure,
If you can provide me with the files and steps to reproduce a failure, I'll get the issue investigated by the ID development team. We know we've found and fixed one defect in this area of multi-threading PDF export [allowing it to proceed in the background], but it seems clear there are others. The more samples I can get, the better our chances of finding a trend and solving for more than one unique case. If less than 100mb, post on SendNow.adobe.com, else use your favorite file sharing site, then send me a private message with the URL.
I'll gladly send you one of my files. It's one that was created in CS5 but I tried CS3, CS4, and CS5 to make a PDF. It has crashed (froze-up) all three versions. These versions were on different machines even. I will upload to AdobeSendNow if you tell me what email I should use for you. Thanks for all of your help!
I got a reproducible failure case. It, like the case we fixed in 7.0.3, involves preflight. Disabling preflight, restarting the application, then exporting the document works. For anyone who hasn't tried that yet in a reproducible failure case, give it a try and report your results. I'm hopeful that the root cause of the case I have now logged with engineering, will be uncovered, and resolved in a future update.
We and our affiliates tried the suggestion of turning off preflight and restarting some time ago and it had no effect. We're also on 7.0.3.
Our experience is that, the longer and more complicated the document is, the more likely it will crash on background export. If the document crashes ID on export, it does so every time. If the document crashes on PDF export, it also crashes on export to IDML, so we can't port the doc back to CS4.The only thing that stops the problem is forcing PDF export to the foreground.
We're now working in CS4 full time. If we had a way to direct save to CS4 from CS5, we could work in CS5 except where we got a problem. But, with no down-save option, we're stuck with avoiding CS5 entirely.
Appreciate the efforts. Hope to see an update soon.
My team has the same issues regarding long documents, and any that crash during PDF export in the background also crash when exporting idml files, which would allow the document to be read in CS4 and a PDF made. We wrote a simple applescript that we're now running that has worked in every case, which you might try -
tell application "Adobe InDesign CS5"
tell active document
export format InDesign markup to choose file name with prompt "Save file as:"
Simply have the desired document open in InDesign, then run that applescript. It has worked for us, and is our only workaround.
(Oh, and obviously this is a Mac-only solution.)
If you have a reproducible failure case that happens even when Preflight is disabled, then our current investigations are not likely to address it. Can you provide me with the file? The links and images shouldn't be necessary to reproduce it, but please test that first to ensure we're comparing apples to apples.
I subscribed to this thread to try and assist an old client of mine living
in the Middle East. Their problem is still not sorted - but I can't help
thinking that non of my clients in SA have experienced these nightmares -
could regional differences in the software possibly explain some of these
We just purchased a new imac in order to upgrade to CS5.
I am experiencing the same problem that everyone is describing. The ability to export PDFs from InDesign is a critical part of our workflow as this is the way we show proofs to our clients for approvals. Without it we are dead in the water.
Thanks to everyone who suggested work arounds. I tried the export to interactive and so far that is working, but it does create a color shift in what we show our clients, so at best, this is only a temporary solution.
Adobe--please fix this fast!
That could prove useful. What app are you using to write and execute the script?
We can export PDFs from IDCS5 by adding the documents to a book and export from that, but (I think) this precludes us from exporting page ranges.
As it is, we're in a 1,000 page book project and we're playing it safe and doing the job in CS4. We'll come back to CS5 when and if there's an update that allows us to turn off background ripping, or when there's and end to reports of problems.
If you have a reproducible failure case that happens even when Preflight is disabled, then our current investigations are not likely to address it. Can you provide me with the file
I'll try to squeeze some time on the weekend to find and prep a sample file.
In general though, we've stopped putting time and money into the problem and are just hunkering down with CS4 until we get a CS5 update that allows us to turn off background ripping. We're very happy with CS4.
I just answer the occasional e-mail here to give relevant info to other users so they don't feel so alone.
One thing I'd really like to see though, is a communication by Adobe about what the plan is to deal with this. If we know where Adobe is going, we can plan accordingly and save ourselves a lot of time and trouble.
The script for exporting an idml file out of CS5 was written and is executed in Applescript, and has seemed to work for us rather well.
it can be run via the scripts panel in InDesign CS5 and forces PDF export in the foreground, which has worked in every case in which background exporting crashed/hung/failed for our team of 8 designers. It's been our studio's lifesaver since upgrading to CS5 and is the only way we can get PDFs to export reliably. Read that thread carefully for directions - very easy to execute.
For failures that only occur when exporting with the default Print PDF path, the recommendation is that you submit your document to me to enable us to reproduce the issue and find the root cause and solve it. Until all root causes are resolved, use the solutions documented in the following KB doc, or utilize the forementioned script to force PDF export into the foreground: