21 Replies Latest reply: Mar 28, 2011 9:44 AM by JSS1138 RSS

    How to ask questions the smart way

    jeremy d. Adobe Employee

      It seems to me that the title of this link:

       

      How to ask questions the smart way

       

      is a bit smarmy. Whenever I read it in posts (which is often, of course), I anticipate a response which is likewise smarmy, bordering on sarcastic. It implies that a user is asking questions the stupid way. Even though a clear majority of new posters need to see that info, it is also the case that those new posters are seldom aquainted with the covertly humorous nature of our little forum here, nor are they aware of snakes on planes (which is unfortunate).

       

      I'm not advocating active hand-holding, but a little bit less You Suck might be more welcoming.

        • 1. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
          Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

          Jeremy,

           

          I also saw the potential for getting a new poster off onto the wrong foot, and also possibly shutting their mind to help, that will later be offered. There are several similar threads, and while the make good, and useful points, plus offer helpful instructions, I observed quite a bit of push-back from posters, especially those new to these fora.

           

          I attempted to distill things in a slightly different package, and to point out a little of the "why," with regards to furnishing information, from which to work. Since I spend time between two different Premiere fora, the PrElements and the various PrPro fora, I also realized that the posters are very likely coming at things from a very different perspective. I tried to put things into an unintimidating form, but one that could work with either main Premiere user groups. So far, I have gotten little push-back from this ARTICLE, but am sure that it could be greatly improved upon.

           

          Unfortunately, some users arrive in a highly frustrated state. Many are under deadlines, that are looming. Some show up with a chip, squarely on their shoulders, and a mind-set that it HAS to be Adobe's fault. For some of those reasons, they do not feel obligated to provide any useful info, and rather insist that we just "fix it." Some are also ill-prepared to furnish even the most simple of details, and do often require major hand-holding, such as "look at the bottom-left of your Windows Deskto, and find the little Start button. Click on that to ... "

           

          Other posters treat info, such as their Project Preset, their CPU speed, their HDD set-up and the details of their source footage, as a "state secret." "If I told you that, I'd have to kill you... " [I am always amazed, when it takes 20 replies, before we find that the source material is DivX, or similar, though those very details were requested in Reply # 1.]

           

          There will always be a few posters, who do not wish to do any reading, or troubleshooting, and only want a simple answer as to what they need to do, to get things functioning. Often, their assumption is that we all know the answer to every possible issue, and should just tell them, "push THAT button."

           

          We can hold their hands, but they need to be prepared to be led into a dark room, filled with scary snakes! [Note: that laughter must be delivered in the most evil voice possible.]

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
            Colin Brougham Community Member

            I'm not advocating active hand-holding, but a little bit less You Suck might be more welcoming.

             

            Amen, brother. Problem is, I fear it's a losing battle. I just try to fly above the fray, and deploy Science-to-Misguided missiles when appropriate

            • 3. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
              Community Member

              Jeremy, welcome back from vacation !!  how was it ? do anything fun ??

               

              -----------

              nor are they aware of snakes on planes (which is unfortunate).

              ------------

               

              luckily that gets corrected pretty quick usually....

               

               

              now there is some new development too....  eg....Godzilla helping out in Japan, by eating the bad reactors, helping to balance elect grid, etc...

              He eats a bad core, burps once and moves on to the next one...

               

              grrrr.jpg

               

               

              • 4. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                Todd_Kopriva Adobe Employee

                I concur with the requests (implicit and explicit) for a little less... snarkiness.

                 

                I understand that it's frustrating to feel the need to ask people to exercise basic common sense when asking questions, but the way that we ask for additional information can make the difference between alienating the posters and actually helping them.

                 

                Here's a post that I made when I was trying to communicate some basic common sense for forums:

                http://blogs.adobe.com/toddkopriva/2008/12/myleniums-plea-for-common-sens.html

                 

                Rereading that a couple of years later, I see that even that came across as snarky. (Mylenium's original post is way beyond snarky.)

                 

                I like Colin's answer on this thread, and I try to do the same.

                 

                This is a community, though---and I won't try (too hard) to try to change the curmudgeonly nature of some of its most helpful members. The best that I can do is make an occasional request and try to set a good example.

                 

                Thanks for bringing this up, Jeremy.

                • 5. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                  Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                  I won't try (too hard) to try to change the curmudgeonly nature of some of its most helpful members.

                   

                  Hey, I resemble that remark. I use to just Copy/Paste, RTFM (Read the Fine Manual), but then those went the way of the dodo. Now, I just Copy/Paste RTFHF (Read Todd's Fine Help File).

                   

                  Actually, I'm thinking about having all my Adobe product manuals bronzed... of course they won't smell the same, and I just love the smell of books.

                   

                  Probably because I did not search Mylenium's full post, but only read the excerpts, I did not find anything offensive in the cited sections. It does become difficult to handle some of the posts and even some of the posters. I've lately found that I just walk away from some threads now (didn't use to do much of that in the past), when the complete instructions have been given multiple times, but the poster refuses to go through the steps - wanting that "Easy Button," to do it all for them. Many of these are in regards to resource, memory or similar issues, and often with a horribly underpowered computer. I think that most of us can agree that there are a few issues with items, such as "Minimum System Requirements," and I will not rehash those. [If I win that Maine Lobster Lunch at the Official Adobe Cafeteria, along with the "5 mins. with a product developer," I'll choose Marketing instead, and spend 4.9 mins. pleading "list real-world system minimums to actually USE the product, not just install and get it to launch."]

                   

                  One of the issues, that I believe that I see too often, is a poster, who is in total denial, about what is really wrong. Not sure exactly what they expect to get from the forum, other than that Easy Button - the one that we all know seldom exists. Not sure where real help, along those lines, can come from. Colin's idea of a workflow site could well be a great start, but there will still be users, who fall through the cracks. As an example, the MOD on the PrE forum, Steve Grisetti, has written a Basic Training Series, which is free on a multi-level Web site, that he co-founded, Muvipix.com. This is one of the first resources that most of us poiint a new user to. Next, he has a Learning Series, that is available free to site subscribers, and it covers so very much about how to do things in PrE. Then, he has several books on PSE and PrE (plus two on Sony DVD Architect, with a much better, robust authoring system, than is included in PrE). We link to these resources in this ARTICLE. Still, so many posters come back with, "I don't have time to read all that stuff," or "well, I want to make the program work THIS way, and Adobe should re-code everything for my proposed workflow." OK, fine. File the Feature Request. Fortunately, we see much less of this sort of mindset, in the PrPro forum, though it is certainly not immune.

                   

                  One little trend, that I believe I am seeing is a platform-centric mindset. As of CS3, PrPro went X-platform, and as of PrE 9.0, that program has been released for the Mac. I am observing a lot more "just get this fixed for me, 'cause I don't have time to do it myself." Maybe it's because the PC-crowd has been digging around inside their boxes and programs much longer, so it's not such a big deal for them to tune up Win7, add more RAM, HDD's, etc., but it sems that the Mac-crowd just wants someone to drop out of the sky and make it all perfect. Of course it could just be my platform-bias, and what I think I see, does not really exist. However, along the way, I have tried to learn a bit more about Mac's, just to offer more help.

                   

                  Back to "snarkiness," I think that one contributing factor is abject frustration on the part of the most active responders. It becomes more difficult to provide the same exact material to five exact posts in a row. I'm not talking about duplicate posts here, but the same issue, posted by five different folk. I know that I am affected, and even caught one of our most helpful and mild-mannered posters asking "could you not look two posts down, where your exact question was answered in great detail?" Yes, all of the answers had just been posted, and only about six hours earlier. In this case, that mild-mannered poster did furnish the link to that thread, but the frustration was evident, at least to me - and I felt his frustrations too, seeing the same thing happen over and over.

                   

                  All of the stickies in the world will not be helpful to some posters - they will always ignore them. Same with many correct answers, that contain links, that need to be read, and not just the Easy Button. Other than to just post applicable links, not sure what we could do differently there.

                   

                  Well, back to the product fora, to try and help someone...

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                    Todd_Kopriva Adobe Employee

                    Lest you think that I use the word 'curmudgeon' as an insult, take a look at my profile on LinkedIn:

                    http://www.linkedin.com/search/fpsearch?type=people&keywords=todd+kopriva

                     

                    I'm in the process of creating an FAQ list for this forum, modeled after this one for After Effects:

                    http://forums.adobe.com/community/aftereffects_general_discussion/faq

                    I know that I have a much easier time on the After Effects forum, and I think that it's partially because it so easy for me to answer a couple dozen of the most frequently asked questions with a simple link.

                     

                    I think that another reason that we have fewer repeated questions and poorly asked questions on the After Effects forum is the layout, which forces people to see the "you should read this first" stuff:

                    http://forums.adobe.com/community/aftereffects_general_discussion

                    Internal folks have raised eyebrows at the fact that a person has to scroll down to get to the threads, but I can tell from our web analytics that a huge number of people are using those links that they encounter when they first get to that page. On the Premiere Pro forums, the parallel materials are buried in drop-down menus and accordion controls on the specific forums, like here:

                    http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere/premierepro_current

                     

                    ... and they're at the bottom of the screen where nobody looks on the main page here:

                    http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere

                     

                    I can tell that very few people click these items on the Premiere Pro forum site.

                    • 7. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                      Community Member

                      samples of a question and answer format -----guide ------

                       

                      Q--  OMG ! EMERGENCY ! NEED THIS YESTERDAY !  WHY DOESNT THIS STUPID PROGRAM WORK RIGHT ? HELP ME !

                      I put video into timeline and nothing happens and then I get mssg " OUT OF RAM"  and then my computer switches to some video re-runs of "BONANZA "...AND THEN IT CRASHES !

                       

                      I need to make DVD's NOW FOR CLIENTS !  THIS USED TO WORK AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN IT DOESNT !

                      I WISH ADOBE WOULD GET ITS ACT TOGETHER !

                       

                      A--  Welcome to the forum ( Sir or Madam ). I am so sorry you are experiencing problems and will do everything humanly possible to assist you IMMEDIATELY.  Many experts like myself are now reviewing your post and rushing to your aid !  Thanks you so much for coming to this forum for help !

                      Could you please tell us a little more information about your problem ?  For example, are you trying to use some version of Adobe Premiere Pro to edit some sort of video or sound file ?  Anything you tell us about your computer setup and your program version and your "assets" will be kept in the strictest CONFIDENCE !  Thank you !

                       

                      your friendly "snake on a plane" helper !

                       

                       

                      • 8. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                        John T Smith CommunityMVP

                        >very few people click these items on the Premiere Pro forum site

                         

                        Well, the link to the FAQ List is a drop down list... but the heading is all CAPS AND BOLD... which still does not get people to look

                         

                        Maybe if the "FAQ drop-down List -- Many useful links to get you started using Premiere Pro CS5. Look here first -- you'll be glad you did" words were 2-3 fonts larger, and RED as well as bold, new people would slow down for a few seconds to actually read what it says, and click the links

                         

                        Of course... maybe not, and we'll still have the same question posted several (dozen) times a week

                         

                        And, as always, we'll still have people who don't want to BELIEVE that the new computer they just bought is not adequate to edit the AVCHD files from the camera they bought on the other side of the store... after all, the nice sales clerk walked all the way from one side of the store to the other side to help with the purchase, so someone so helpful could not possibly be wrong!

                         

                        Break time is almost over... the JobJarQueen is calling... see 'ya later

                        • 9. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                          Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                          And, as always, we'll still have people who don't want to BELIEVE that the new computer they just bought is not adequate to edit the AVCHD files from the camera they bought on the other side of the store..

                           

                          At the risk of getting too specific in a rather broad subject, as this one, two more common areas of increduility are:

                           

                          1. The concept that the audio and video drivers for that new Dell (fill in the blank), are probably 5-6 mos. out of date on the date that it was delivered.
                          2. The concept that the brand new Dell (fill in the blank) is not tuned optimally, and that it is not filled with all sorts of bloatware, and especially active, real-time anti-virus software, that could possibly get in the way.

                           

                          I love Harm's opening for many of his comments, "you will probably not like the answer... " but it's so very true - again, there is a high level of denial, when many show up with issues.

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                            Community Member

                            you mean my dell 530 wont edit red raw 4k with cs3 with windows xp sp3 and built in graphics on mobo ?

                             

                            WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ! 

                             

                            STUPID ADOBE PRODUCTS !  this used to be so easy with windows movie maker !

                             

                             

                            • 11. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                              Community Member

                              but anyway, being pc people with knowledge of guts of computer and components ( builders of computer etc )...and with all the 3rd party alternatives to make things happen even with underpowered platforms and buggy stuff with assets...( frameserving, avisynth, conversions etc )...kinda sometimes drags on the pain ( hope )... " I can do this if I just find the right solution "....

                               

                              which is commendable , but sometimes you just wanna DO SOMETHING and not deal with all the technical workarounds...

                               

                              which brings this to another level...being as we are on the crest of a tech wave....being able to do things with more and more powerful home hardware and better and better cameras ( affordable )...

                               

                              and that crossroad ( soon to be here ....few years maybe ? )... is how to help with the creative end of stuff instead of all the tech help to make things "work"....  how will the forums help with the creative end instead ???  that would be fun ...but might have to be monetized somehow ( as it doesnt help the software developer...it has the product to do what it says it can do )

                               

                              but now its about how to maximize the effect on product with creative solutions....thats the future of these forums....and " how to ask a question" and how to answer it maybe ???
                              • 12. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                                Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                how will the forums help with the creative end instead ???  that would be fun ..

                                 

                                I think that the vast majority of regulars here would love nothing better, and then it rather becomes a matter of people here, helping users of Adobe software get more out of that software.

                                 

                                In the PS forum, many long-standing regulars have just fled in disgust. The vast majority of posts there are on installation issues, error messages about no more Scratch Disk Space, and why does their copy of PS, bought for US$ 20 on eBay not work, etc., and it's the same thing over and over. The closest thing to a reguest for "creative help," is the thrice-weekly "How do I put my head onto ______'s body?" I am surprised how calmly most answer that question, and link to the same tutorials on Masking and Selections repeatedly, though that question appears down five posts, with the same links and instructions.

                                 

                                Yes, bring on the creative questions!!!!! They would be so much more fun, than pointing out what the little "speaker" icons mean in the Audio Tracks' Header, and how they affect what can be dragged to those Tracks.

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                                  Todd_Kopriva Adobe Employee

                                  > Yes, bring on the creative questions!!!!!

                                   

                                   

                                  I'll soldier on in my creation of a proper FAQ list, confident in my assertion that such a resource makes dealing with the routine stuff on the forum (relatively) easy, and I think that we'll soon see that the more interesting questions will flourish.

                                   

                                  I'll also try again to lobby for a better layout of the portal pages for the Premiere Pro forums, once we've got some better material to put in the headers.

                                  • 14. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                                    Community Member

                                    I know Im going out on a limb here...re: the creative side...but sometimes its in the shooting of it, rather than the editing...

                                     

                                    check out this little "video" about louma 2... is worth watching just to see some cool shots being made ...the "baloon " light in one scene ( common now for both interior and some exterior shots ---depending on wind, weather etc )...is fun to watch...

                                     

                                    http://www.louma.co.uk/louma_2.htm

                                     

                                    im not selling this thing...Im just saying....you can do stuff and rent it and not have to pay thru nose to get it done

                                     

                                    just talk to your local guys and its all negotable no matter what the price list says...really....everyone wants to make stuff happen...and keep stuff working ( equip and humans...)

                                    • 15. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                                      Community Member

                                      for exterior shots....even walk and talks on sidewalks...this is happening

                                       

                                      http://www.ultimatearm.com/

                                       

                                      hmmm, something wrong with their streaming video promo....stops after a sec or 2....

                                       

                                      anyway, its a cool rig

                                       

                                       

                                      • 16. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                                        jeremy d. Adobe Employee

                                        Heh

                                         

                                        I really was just observing the actual name of the link -- "How to ask questions the smart way." I wasn't commenting on the content of that page at all.

                                         

                                        I did not intend to start another thread dealing with our comportment on the forum.

                                        • 17. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                                          Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                          Neat video. Neat dolly/crane. Imagine what Kubrick could have done with that in both 2001 A Space Odyssey and Barry Lyndon.

                                           

                                          As for the "shooting" aspect, I thnk that Jim Simon did a good job of pointing out that "film look" is much more than just shooting 24p, in his article some years back. So much more goes into "creative," than just the work in post.

                                           

                                          Thanks for that link,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                                            Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                            Ah Jeremy, another fine can-o-snake that got opened here...

                                             

                                            Hey, good and germane comments, at least so far.

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                                              Community Member

                                              ---------------
                                              I wasn't commenting on the content of that page at all.

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              I did not intend to start another thread dealing with our comportment on the forum.
                                              -------------
                                              this reminds me of that movie "apocalypse now " (sp? )...where that guy with still cameras hanging on his neck ( with no film in them ) rants on about how brilliant the whacky guy is in charge of stuff ( col. nutso ) ....

                                               

                                              at some point he talks about things as a photographer ( sans film ) ... "observer" or documentarian ( before ken burns turned everything beautiful in the documentary world )... and makes absolutely NO SENSE AT ALL !

                                               

                                              being the lounge , and considering the sat night crowd , and the noise at the bar, the loud music.....your lucky anyone even hears you anymore !...

                                               

                                              Jeremy ? Who ?  Where is he ?

                                               

                                              : p

                                              • 20. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                                                Community Member

                                                Bill,

                                                -----------

                                                Neat video. Neat dolly/crane

                                                ------------------

                                                 

                                                yeah, it is pretty decent....and whats more.....you can get ideas of your own from this stuff....really...

                                                 

                                                like, build a dolly for track using skateboard wheels at 45 degree angles to track to roll on round stock ( track )..

                                                using your own materials, buy wheels at sports store....use speedrail 1.25" od, schedule 40 for track....

                                                 

                                                use wood ( plain old wood ) and build "arm" to get camera over people....build a simple tripod out of speedrail to support weight of arm, camera and counterweight....  put on track too if you want....

                                                 

                                                lots of ideas out of looking at stuff that is used....

                                                 

                                                most car rigs ( 20 years ago ?? 0...hood mounts, door mounts, etc... were made out of WOOD ( just cut what you need, strap down, drill holes for camera bolts to mount head or camera )...  easy !

                                                 

                                                wheels copy.jpg

                                                 

                                                 

                                                • 21. Re: How to ask questions the smart way
                                                  JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                                  It seems to me that the title of this link How to ask questions the smart way is a bit smarmy.

                                                   

                                                  Believe it or not, this seems to be the standard FAQ entry 'title' for forums across the 'Net when it comes to helping the uninformed ask questions that are easier to answer.