24 Replies Latest reply: Nov 23, 2014 1:40 PM by Bombelkie RSS

    Upscale SD Video to HD.

    Lucien Schilling Community Member

      I know that upscaling SD video is not the best solution, but I have existing old video clips that I want to insert soon into a new production. Now I wonder which tool could handle that best! Premiere? After Effects? Photoshop? some other third party tool?

       

      I've seen some pretty good upscaled DigiBeta material but I don't know (yet) how it was done. But the quality is not bad at all!

       

      Lucien.

        • 1. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
          Harm Millaard Community Member

          Instant HD (Pro) from RedGiant.

          • 2. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
            Lucien Schilling Community Member

            Thanks, I will check that one out!

            • 3. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
              Colin Brougham Community Member

              You might want to check out Video Enhancer or, if you're comfortable with VirtualDub, the Super Resolution plugin available from Infognition: Video enhancement software, screen codec and DirectShow tools

              • 4. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                Lucien Schilling Community Member

                I know VirtualDub! I used it sometimes to get things done that wern't possible by the costy tools! I'll defenitly give this one a try!

                • 5. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                  gabjr99 Community Member

                  Hello Lucien,

                  Please post your results. I am about to work on a similar scenario.  I am faced with do I spend over double my production budget to film in HD, or do I film in SD which is whthin budget and try to upscale for those who want Blu-Ray disks?

                  • 6. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                    Keith_Clark Community Member

                    gabjr99 wrote:

                     

                    Hello Lucien,

                    Please post your results. I am about to work on a similar scenario.  I am faced with do I spend over double my production budget to film in HD, or do I film in SD which is whthin budget and try to upscale for those who want Blu-Ray disks?

                    upscaling is a decent workflow if you have to.... but you can definately tell its upsclaed and not true HD. i have Instant HD, and it looks decent, but aagin you can tell it was upscaled, just like watching all the fuzzy 720p on direcTV/cable. you can tell that crap is being upscaled to fit the 1080p display.

                    • 7. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                      J. Simon Community Member

                      do I spend over double my production budget to film in HD

                       

                      If you want to ever deliver on Blu-ray, then yes.

                      • 8. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                        shooternz Community Member

                        do I spend over double my production budget to film in HD, or do I film in SD

                         

                         

                        How does it double+ your budget?

                        • 9. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                          Lucien Schilling Community Member

                          I finally used AfterEffects without any additional plug-ins. The quality was excellent as the initial data was of an excellent quality. Mixing HD and SD material was seamless also because of the film concept, which did not allow the audience to compare one to the other directly. But also at my critical eye and frame to frame view, I was very satisfied with the results.

                           

                          My scenario was different: I needed to use existing data. If I would have to produce new data, I would anyhow use HD equipment for the production. I cannot imagine that budget does double for HD. I even think, that currently most equipment will have done the transition. The only thing that I can imagine is using low end equipment for SD and high end for HD. But that will ultimately limit your ability to rework the data.

                           

                          FYI: most of my SD material was in DigiBeta. Mixing the materials will not show much of a difference as DigiBeta is of an awsome quality, especially in some critical situations.

                           

                          When using digitized analogue material, you see the quality difference. But that may also be the effect of ageing.

                           

                          So my current oppinion on this is:

                          • Use of a (former) hgh end digital SD camera is at least as good as using one of the current (cheap) cameras.
                          • The lenses are having also a very determinated influence on what you may do. My SD material has been filmed with "cinema quality lenses" according to my service provider.
                          • 10. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                            gabjr99 Community Member

                            shooternz wrote:

                             

                             

                             

                            How does it double+ your budget?

                            Hello,

                            I usually film with 2 PANASONIC DVX-100A or similar which are SD cameras.  With 12 Mini DVD tapes my cost is $300 for 2 days of rental. This rental house is closed on the weekend. So I am paying for 1 day and getting it Friday night to Monday. I never have a problem with the quality or image in SD with SD delivery to DVD.

                             

                            I went to a new rental company to reserve 2 HPX170 Cameras to step up the quality and do HD. They are open 7 days per week. The rental house up-sold me to use 2 Sony XH1 cameras which will require two 32GB SxS cards. The prices are for 2 days of rental:

                             

                            2- Sony EX1 w/32GB SxS Card -- $560

                            2- extra 32GB SxS Card -- $160

                            City of Chicago Tax -- $57.60

                            SUBTOTAL: $777.60

                            - Questionnaire 10% Off -- $77.76

                            TOTAL: $699.84

                             

                            Hence over double what I had planned.  What would you do? Upscale the SD, use the HPX170 which is not true 1080p, or go with the EX1?

                             

                             

                            Is it worth it?  I am delivering 1000 replicated DVDs in standard definition.  Some footage will used as a fund raiser and shown on the "big screen" in a movie theater.

                             

                            Thanks!

                            • 11. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                              Harm Millaard Community Member

                              I am delivering 1000 replicated DVDs in standard definition.

                               

                              When using SD as the delivery format, there is no sense is shooting and/or editing in HD.

                              • 12. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                                gabjr99 Community Member

                                I understand Harm.  I just want the option to deliver Blu-Ray disks when requested. Also this film will be viewed in a movie theater so I was seeking to capture the best image.

                                 

                                (Sorry for going off topic guys.)

                                • 13. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                                  J. Simon Community Member

                                  this film will be viewed in a movie theater

                                   

                                  Definitely go for the HD then.

                                  • 14. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                                    Keith_Clark Community Member

                                    Bottom line, upscaled SD is only good if you have an HD timeline and need to add in SD footage to that timeline. You don't want a teeny picture in the middle of your screen, you want it to match.

                                     

                                    If you have an entire timeline of SD, it's pointless. most if not all, blu-ray players upscale SD to 1080 out of box. And will deliver the exact same results you would get using plug-ins to do it. Need proof? Produce the same timeline twice. One in 480 burned to DVD, and one in 480 upscale to 1080 with plugins burned to blu-ray, test both on an HDTV with the same bluray player. Results should be almost indiscernible.

                                     

                                    So basically commit to one medium and work with that. Commit to SD, or commit to HD. If you commit to HD save the rental and just finance a good HD camera it'll pay for itself within 5 or so of your rentals.

                                    • 15. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                                      Lucien Schilling Community Member

                                      I never have a problem with the quality or image in SD with SD delivery to DVD.

                                      You shouldn't have... DVD is SD resolution! And the camera used is producing a decent quality. You should only get problems with difficult lightning situations.

                                       

                                      Some footage will used as a fund raiser and shown on the "big screen" in a movie theater.

                                      You need to weight if that "some footage" is worth the price! It's easier to downscale then upscale! And Cinema is not HD but 4k for high quality and 2k for low quality projections. While the difference between 2k and HD is marginal and has no influence on the projection quality, SD quality is ways away.

                                       

                                      If you choose "some footage" carefully, you should even be able to get quite decent results. It's all depending from what kind of production your doing. May be it's worth to shoot only part of the footage in HD. You would need only one HD camera.

                                       

                                      It's getting complicated...

                                      • 16. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                                        Lucien Schilling Community Member

                                        demon_hunter83 wrote:

                                         

                                        test both on an HDTV with the same bluray player. Results should be almost indiscernible.

                                         

                                        Yes, no need to upscale SD to HD to play on a BluRay if the production is completely SD, just for fun. DVDs play at a very good quality on HD TV.

                                         

                                        Well the only reason to do this is to be able to announce availability on BluRay...and that is pure marketing! Has nothing to do with the real quality or any thing else.

                                         

                                        So basically commit to one medium and work with that. Commit to SD, or commit to HD. If you commit to HD save the rental and just finance a good HD camera it'll pay for itself within 5 or so of your rentals.

                                         

                                        If you buy, you are stuck with your equipment. And if it goes out of order, you still need to rent. If you rent, you are flexible but you  pay a premium for regular jobs. But sometimes it's a matter of negotiations. If you're doing regular rents at your usual shop, you can ask for special prices.

                                         

                                        We hire the cameramen with his equipment. It's more a matter of quality of the (wo)man behind the camera then the equipment. But we specify the quality of material we are expecting (nowadays HD different quality levels depending on teh use we intend to do and delivery on a hard disk...)

                                        • 17. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                                          gabjr99 Community Member

                                          Thanks Lucien,

                                          I just read on 2k vs. 4k which makes me question what I am doing thinking I can go into a theater. See: http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/the-truth-about-2k-4k-the-future-of-pixels  What type of rendering settings and delivery file format for a theater would I be able to get out of Premiere Pro CS5? Do I take a hard disk to the theater, Blu-Ray or do I need to go read a book and do some research?

                                           

                                           

                                          The Project:

                                          I have filmed a performing arts school for the past 6 years in SD.  They put on really big productions in a major Chicago theater.  I was thinking that this year I would film the entire show in HD, but deliver this year's show in SD as usual.  I would then take the HD footage from this year, find the best performances from the past 6 years which are SD, and edit it together for a film to be shown in a theater for a fund raiser for the school.

                                           

                                          When you say commit to one medium, since all of my footage is SD, it sounds like I should stick with SD..???

                                           

                                          Most indie productions I have seen in theaters have looked very bad, and the projection has been too dark.  Perhaps the theater was just projecting from some low lumen projector and not a theater projector???

                                           

                                          I need to go and talk to the theater that I am targeting.

                                           

                                          Thank you for your time and knowledge.

                                          • 18. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                                            gabjr99 Community Member

                                            Thanks.  I get it load and clear.

                                            • 19. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                                              Lucien Schilling Community Member

                                              You need to talk to a theater owner. I think that most of them can play a BluRay, but that would not be their first choice. I supose also that a hard disk should make the affair, if your going to ONE theater, but downloadable data would be more efficient if showing your sequel in many theaters.

                                               

                                              SD vs. HD: I think you should make the switch to HD if you are continuing with this project. I was doing the same (corporate film), using older material and mixing up with newer material. As my older material was of a very good quality (DigiBeta), I had little problems. Even 4:3 to 16:9 conversion went well. Only very old analogue material was a problem.

                                               

                                              2k vs 4k: you will use 2k at most, and the audience will have no problem with that. Only with your nose sticked to the projection, you will see a difference (fits to ordinary people).

                                              • 20. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                                                Keith_Clark Community Member

                                                Not necessarily. If 75% of your timeline would be from this years show, then i don't think it would be a bad choice to upscale clips from previous shows and add it to the timeline. If you are doing an entire timeline though of footage, commit it to a proper hd timeline, or a proper SD timeline. mixed timelines is a different matter, and requires discretion. but don't upscale an entire timeline of SD and slap a 1080p sticker on it, cause that is false advertising.

                                                 

                                                Sent from iPhone 4s

                                                • 21. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                                                  J. Simon Community Member

                                                  What type of rendering settings and delivery file format for a theater would I [need to deliver]?

                                                   

                                                  Read this.

                                                   

                                                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Cinema_Package

                                                  • 22. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                                                    Keith_Clark Community Member

                                                    Basically my "commit one format" comment works great with home delivery, but with a theatre project, you would almost have to go HD. The theatre thing is an odd variable to add to the mix. Im sorry for any confusion there.

                                                    • 23. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                                                      etoswald Community Member

                                                      After Effects CC has added a effect to do this.

                                                      detailpreserving upscale

                                                       

                                                      http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-at-ibc-2013/after-effects-cc-detailpreserving-upscale/

                                                      • 24. Re: Upscale SD Video to HD.
                                                        Bombelkie Community Member

                                                        This is awesome I have AE CC and don't need to purchase additional plug-ins, best news.