16 Replies Latest reply: Apr 19, 2011 8:13 AM by Jon-M-Spear RSS

    Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up

    joe bloe premiere Community Member

      Ok... I'll forget about IEEE1394 output of hardware MPE.
      I suspect it isn't likely to be resolved in CS.anything.
      The technical challenge of routing a DV signal from the CPU/GPU
      back through a firewire channel may be an insurmountable hurdle.
      But it's really tough to let go of your pet peeve.

       

      If nVidiAdobe were to develop a companion card to the primary GPU
      that allowed realtime SDI and Component output of hardware MPE
      to a broadcast monitor and/or deck, I would gladly buy one in a second...
      regardless of cost.

       

      Using third-party hardware and sequence presets, or employing the
      suggested hinky workaround using a consumer grade monitor that
      requires monthly attention to maintain its color calibration using
      third-party hardware and software, or any other suggested approach
      I have read here are IMHO, all flimsy second-tier dead ends.


      Multiple monitors and/or Reference monitor in Premiere Pro
      http://forums.adobe.com/thread/744683

       

      With CS6 perched on the horizon, It seems Adobe is in the perfect position
      to continue its inexorable march toward taking charge of the NLE market.
      Most serious FCP editors are Ae users already.  Give them a good taste
      of expanded native file support along with Dynamic Linking  and throw in
      some new capabilities and reliability to Pr, and they will wonder why they
      were doing things the hard way for so long.
      Fellow pros used to snicker and roll their eyes at me when I said I was
      using PPro2.  But, when I mention CS5 they will always have a few
      questions about how well things work... and the snicker is long gone.

       

      However, I feel the lack of realtime uncompromised external monitoring
      is an issue that must be natively resolved before Pr can take the lead.
      Adobe and nVidia should find a way to work this out.

       

      I think a rhetorical question can be found here somewhere.

        • 2. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
          joe bloe premiere Community Member

          Thanks for the link.  Maybe you can tell me if it is what I'm looking for.

           

          1. First of all, does it work with Hardware MPE output?

           

          2. Does it work with Software MPE output?

           

          3. Has this card been tested and approved for CS5.5 by Adobe?

           

          4. Does it work with all approved CUDA cards?

           

          5. Can it simultaneously output 2-SDI video feeds and Dual-Link
          DVI-I from either Hardware or Software MPE?

           

          6. Does this card support all display output formats for Pr?

           

          7. Do the outputs function with After Effects as well?

           

          8. Can the SDI be used as a capture source?

           

           

          Thanks.

          • 3. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
            SteveHoeg Adobe Employee

             

            NVIDIA’s SDI card offers two modes. First is explicitly controlled by an application such that communication is directly with the device. We do not currently support this. A second option offered by the card is to function as a GPU monitor, either independently or cloning another monitor. This hence allows output over SDI from any application without it needing special knowledge of the SDI device. You can then use Premiere Pro’s builtin fullscreen display to output to this SDI device with or without GPU acceleration. This adds very little overhead as it is coming directly off the GPU but has the limitations that we will not take advantage of anything possible over SDI that is not possible through regular GPU outputs. The SDI card will only work with Quadros and capture is not supported.

             

             

             

            See here for full the full user’s manual:

            http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/40049/NVQ4000-5000-6000SDI-UG-v01.pdf

            • 4. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
              JSS1138 Community Member
              First is explicitly controlled by an application such that communication is directly with the device.

               

              You need to.  And not just with this device, but with any graphics card that has an HDMI port.  Premiere Pro is looooong overdue for a proper monitoring solution, one that does not depend on closing or extending desktops, one that does not depend on third party codecs at all, one that works with just about any graphics card that has the appropriate port.

              • 5. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
                joe bloe premiere Community Member

                Thanks for your reply.

                 

                ...function as a GPU monitor, either independently or cloning another monitor.

                Does "independently" mean this device is capable of outputting Premiere's
                program signal ONLY and still leave two GPU displays available for the application?
                If yes, are there any audio sync issues as with IEEE1394 output?

                 

                You can then use Premiere Pro’s builtin fullscreen display to output
                to this SDI device with or without GPU acceleration.

                Does this device then appear as a third monitor option in Premiere?
                Has this card been tested and approved for CS5.5 by Adobe?
                Do the outputs function with After Effects as well?

                 

                ...has the limitations that we will not take advantage of anything possible
                over SDI that is not possible through regular GPU outputs.

                For example?
                Would anything be compromised or sacrificed in the SDI output
                signals from Premiere or After Effects to a broadcast monitor or deck
                compared to a IEEE1394 signal?

                 

                 

                NVIDIA’s SDI card offers two modes. First is explicitly controlled by an application
                such that communication is directly with the device. We do not currently support this.

                I suppose these unsupported functions are the ones for which the card was built.
                The live compositing, color grading,  Shader Model 4.0 for 3D visualization, etc.
                These are likely the reasons the card has 4GB GDDR3 RAM and a 7k price tag.
                I'll bite if it works, but why not just a companion card to the primary GPU that
                provides a pipeline for SDI and/or Component outputs and nothing else?
                It seems a bit like buying a Porsche to drive to the mailbox.

                • 6. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
                  joe bloe premiere Community Member

                  Premiere Pro is looooong overdue for a proper monitoring solution, one that does not depend on closing or extending desktops, one that does not depend on third party codecs at all, one that works with just about any graphics card that has the appropriate port.

                   

                  Hear, hear!

                  • 7. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
                    Jon-M-Spear Community Member

                    I strongly agree -as my previous posts on the very same topic will confirm.

                    • 8. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
                      joe bloe premiere Community Member

                      Nice!

                       

                      Anyone else irritated by this lingering deficiency?

                      • 9. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
                        SCAPsinger Community Member

                        I've posted this before, and at the risk of sounding like a clanging gong, I'll post it again JUST IN CASE it's as useful a solution for anyone else.

                         

                        You can easily output the program monitor of PPro through a 2nd (or 3rd?) video port. In the Playback options, you can select an additional monitor as the output for previews (same place where you would select DV output for previews). There is no extending of the PPro interface or other modification required other than to select the monitor in the Playback options.

                         

                        When you hit play in PPro, it activates full screen playback on the monitor. Pause playback and it pauses on the monitor. If/when you ALT+TAB out of PPro to another application, the fullscreen goes away (and - for me - reveals my beautiful company logo on the desktop) but it comes right back as soon as you hit play.

                         

                        It works on all timelines, no codecs or special setups needed.

                         

                        I previously connected via a DVI > HDMI adapter cable, but now I use the HDMI out of the video card straight to the HDMI port of the external HDTV.

                         

                        I'm sure this solution won't be satisfactory for everybody, but for me, it gives a very good representation of what my projects look like on the end users HDTV set. AND it's very easy to setup. AND it works with all sequence settings. AND it works with hardware MPE active. AND....well...guess that's about it.

                        • 10. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
                          joe bloe premiere Community Member
                          I've posted this before, and at the risk of sounding like a clanging gong, I'll post it again JUST IN CASE it's as useful a solution for anyone else.

                           

                          I have read your suggested workaround before.

                          Thank you for posting it to this thread.

                          • 11. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
                            tclark513 Community Member
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                            SCAPsinger wrote:

                             

                            I've posted this before, and at the risk of sounding like a clanging gong, I'll post it again JUST IN CASE it's as useful a solution for anyone else.

                             

                            You can easily output the program monitor of PPro through a 2nd (or 3rd?) video port. In the Playback options, you can select an additional monitor as the output for previews (same place where you would select DV output for previews). There is no extending of the PPro interface or other modification required other than to select the monitor in the Playback options.

                             

                            When you hit play in PPro, it activates full screen playback on the monitor. Pause playback and it pauses on the monitor. If/when you ALT+TAB out of PPro to another application, the fullscreen goes away (and - for me - reveals my beautiful company logo on the desktop) but it comes right back as soon as you hit play.

                             

                            It works on all timelines, no codecs or special setups needed.

                             

                            I previously connected via a DVI > HDMI adapter cable, but now I use the HDMI out of the video card straight to the HDMI port of the external HDTV.

                             

                            I'm sure this solution won't be satisfactory for everybody, but for me, it gives a very good representation of what my projects look like on the end users HDTV set. AND it's very easy to setup. AND it works with all sequence settings. AND it works with hardware MPE active. AND....well...guess that's about it.

                             

                             

                            Thanks for your input...

                            That is pretty much what I am doing (except I am using two video cards) but it is not accurate when you are using DV.

                            I need to output to an NTSC monitor not a progressive computer monitor.  There is a big difference when viewing.

                            • 12. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
                              41NBC Engineer Community Member

                              I need to output to an NTSC monitor not a progressive computer monitor.  There is a big difference when viewing.

                               

                              This is actually what I've been looking into doing as well.  Does this work fairly well?  Basically, it's a necessity for me to be able to check and correct fields on source video.  As long as I set the correct resolution for NTSC output, will the fields show up properly on the studio monitor?

                              • 13. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
                                SCAPsinger Community Member

                                Definitely, I understand the difference between 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, VGA, XVGA, etc....

                                 

                                What I was suggesting was an HDMI (or DVI) output to an HDTV. There are some HDTVs that will let you show a 480i/p signal. Now whether or not the image is scaled or centered, stretched or pillar-boxed...guess it just depends on the actual HDTV as to whether or not you get a true 480i reference.

                                 

                                For me, most of my clients are viewing the DVDs I produce on their upscaling DVD or Blu-ray hardware to an HDTV, so I'm not concerned what it looks like on CRT anymore. The case is obviously much more relevant for my Blu-ray productions.

                                 

                                For people who NEED a CRT preview, the solution is not so simple now as you and others are pointing out. But, for people in my shoes who need to know what their DVD (or Blu-ray) content is going to look like, the DVI/HDMI output solution is very good.

                                • 14. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
                                  Jon-M-Spear Community Member

                                  Tclark513 has hit the nail on the head.  That has been my bone of contention too.  I want to output to a PAL YUV reference monitor, not a flat screen TV.

                                   

                                  As I said in earlier threads, I have installed a BM Intensity Pro card and can now monitor independently of MPE and, apart from the odd little quirk, it works well.  However, I am tied to BM's codecs.

                                   

                                  I look forward to seeing what this tighter integration between PP CS5.5 and BM actually means in reality.

                                  • 15. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
                                    joe bloe premiere Community Member

                                    If using a BM card is going to end up as the best solution for this issue,
                                    then Adobe should be collaborating with Blackmagic instead of nVidia
                                    in order to not be restricted to custom sequence settings in Premiere.

                                     

                                    Or,  Adobe and nVidia should find a way to work this out natively.

                                    • 16. Re: Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
                                      Jon-M-Spear Community Member

                                      You'd think, wouldn't you.

                                       

                                      Here's BM's press release last week...

                                       

                                      http://www.blackmagic-design.com/press/pressdetails/?releaseID=11838