17 Replies Latest reply: Apr 27, 2011 3:54 PM by numetro RSS

    Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.

    numetro Community Member

      Hello Premiere experts,

       

      I'm using Premiere 6 on Windows machine and in the last few days I created a motion graphic that has an alpha channel for background transparency and it is placed on video track 2 and it works when I put a static image underneath it... that is, it shows the background image behind my motion graphic properly in the preview and the rendered video.

       

      But now I've put in an AVI video file behind my motion graphic, and I've tried putting this AVI file on video track 1A and 1B and rendering my movie, but I'm only getting my moving motion graphic on a black background in the preview and the rendered movie... no video from my video track 1A nor 1B is showing up in the background of my motion graphic... but when I put a static image, like a JPEG or a PSD behind my motion graphic, that does show up in the preview and in the final rendered movie.

       

      Shouldn't video be able to be seen behind a motion graphic?

       

      Thanks for any help,

       

      numetro

        • 1. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
          Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

          For some reason, the Alpha Channel is not being used to restrict what is seen, and what is Transparent on that Motion Graphic.

           

          Let's start at the beginning. Can you give us the workflow and full details of that Motion Graphic?

           

          I have to plead ignorance as to how Pr 6.0 handled an Alpha Channel. I do not know if, for instance, one has to check something like "Use Alpha Channel," but some others might be able to direct you, once we know exactly how the Motion Graphic was created. One might even have to use a Keying Effect to allow that Alpha Channel to be used?

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
            numetro Community Member

            Hello again Bill,

             

            My motion graphic creation has been successfull, like I said, when I place a static JPEG or PSD behind it... in that case, it shows my moving graphic and the still background image behind it, with successful transparency.

             

            The motion graphic creation is chronicled in the thread that you posted some replies to at this link...

            http://forums.adobe.com/thread/842405?tstart=0

             

            The workflow is...

             

            1) Import File: Bring in the graphic intended for motion - a PSD with a straight Alpha Channel for the graphic clip to be outlined for transparency... appears in the Project palette.


            2) Move that PSD graphic from the Project palette to the Video 2 slot in the Timeline... click to active that graphic in the Timeline... shows "crawling ants" around perimeter.


            3) Drag that graphic from the Video 2 slot in the Timeline palette to the Effects Control Palette... Motion Setup and Transparency Setup choices now appear in Effects Control palette for that graphic clip intended for motion.


            4) Create motion path in Motion Settings dialog box, select "Alpha: Use Clip's" and save settings... click OK and close dialog box.


            5) Select "Keytype: Alpha Channel" in Transparency Settings Dialog box... click OK and close dialog box.


            6) Import File: Bring in the AVI video intended for the background of the motion graphic - an AVI file that plays properly in Windows Media Player and IrfanView that was converted from a created WMV file to AVI format... AVI video file appears in the Project palette.


            7) Drag that AVI video clip to the Video 1A (or Video 1B) slot in the Timeline.


            8) Save the Project.


            9) Click enter for previewing  and/or  "Export Clip>Movie" to render movie.

             

            10) I just get an AVI file exported from Premiere 6 that is my moving motion graphic on a black backgroundl... showing NO video background as intended.

             

             

            As I said, when I'm using a still, static image as the background for my successful motion graphic, I get my motion graphic moving on the intended background... this is only a problem showing and rendering the motion graphic on top of the AVI video background.

             

             

            PS: I found that I need to double log-in each time I come to this forum now... logging in first from the "Sign In" link at the top right corner of the forums page, then it says I'm logged in, but will not give me the reply and actions options... then I finally figured out after multiple tries that I now need to additionally click the "Login/Register" link near the top of the page on the left... this has changed in the last few day.  I'm still not able to recieve email alerts of forum replies in spite of all three email alert pages being set to "YES" and "RECEIVE".

             

            Careful examination of my information above should make my workflow and prior actions clear.

             

            Thanks again,

             

            numetro

            • 3. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
              numetro Community Member

              I now see the Premiere is not seeing the content of the AVI file that I am trying to use at all, whether it is alone or behind my motion graphic.

               

              I also now tried my motion graphic on top of another AVI file that I created for a prior project and my motion graphic appears correctly on top of that AVI video.

               

              I also noticed that the AVI file that Premiere is not showing the content of, though it imports properly, shows the name and blank black icon in the Project palette.

               

              Does anyone have any suggestions as to why an AVI file that plays properly in multiple video players and imports into other movie editing apps will import in to Premiere 6 but not preview or render anything but black?... if it imports, it seems that it should work.

               

              Thanks,

               

              numetro

              • 4. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                numetro Community Member

                Or is there a profile that will allow Premiere 6 to import a WMV file... it will not allow me to do that.

                 

                Thanks,

                 

                numetro

                • 5. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                  Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                  When you Export to AVI, and you have an Alpha Channel, you must choose "Millions of Colors +." That + is for the Alpha Channel.

                   

                  Good luck, and hope that it helps.

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                    numetro Community Member

                    Hi Bill,

                     

                    The AVI file that won't show up in Premiere is not the one with the Alpha Channel... that's the PSD motion graphic... that one works... the AVI that won't show up in Premiere is a video file with no Alpha channel.

                     

                    numetro

                    • 7. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                      Community Member

                      ---------------

                      I now see the Premiere is not seeing the content of the AVI file that I  am trying to use at all, whether it is alone or behind my motion  graphic.

                      --------------------

                      looks like you now have to look at what is in the AVI file. AVI is a wrapper, and can have many diff codecs etc inside it. Since your program isnt seeing the file properly at all....( black video thumbnail in project monitor ? ) its unlikely it will work in preview or export.

                      You can use mediainfo or gspot to see whats in the avi file.

                      As for the other assumptions ( shouldnt it play, work, etc etc ) the simple answer is NO.

                       

                      once you see whats in the problem avi file you can move closer to solution IMO

                      good luck

                      • 8. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                        numetro Community Member

                        Bill and others,

                         

                        Let's forget about the motion graphic... the problem has been boiled down to Premiere 6 not being able to understand the information in some types of AVI files... some that it will not import at all, and some that it will import but show up as black... regardless of any other clips on any other timeline slots.

                         

                        Let's just make believe that I never said anything about the motion graphic, and the problem is Premiere not seeing certain AVI information... or making it import WMVs would work too.

                         

                        Or, for another option, if MOV format is of a particular type of MPEG file, like MPEG 4 or MP4 H.264, I can convert to that and see if Premiere will understand that file... does MOV format fall under MPEG 4 or MP4 H.264?

                         

                        Thanks,

                         

                        digi

                        • 9. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                          numetro Community Member

                          Hi robodog2 (what happened to robodog1 ?... was he defeated by robodog2 ?)

                           

                          "You can use mediainfo or gspot to see whats in the avi file."...

                           

                          I wouldn't know what I'm seeing "in" the AVI file to understand what is making it so Premiere can't understand it."

                           

                          I'm trying another suggestion of saving to DV-AVI 720x480 format that is supposed to stretch to the proper ratio for this 856x480 project... we'll see.

                           

                          The other options are with MOV files for Premiere if converting to MPEG-4 or MPG H.264 makes a MOV file.

                           

                          Thanks,

                           

                          numetro

                          • 10. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                            numetro Community Member

                            A  720x480 size DV-AVI file saved from MovieMaker 2.6 shows up in Premiere... that's good... but it has an even wider, pulled out appearance in the Premiere preview window... even more than my somewhat wide looking WMV that originally came from MM2.6... it is rendering now from Premiere, so I'll see what it looks like and let you know... thanks.

                             

                            numetro

                            • 11. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                              Community Member

                              -----------

                              but it has an even wider, pulled out appearance in the Premiere preview  window... even more than my somewhat wide looking WMV that originally  came from MM2.6..

                              -----------

                               

                              aha...progress !

                               

                              if you have to , experiment with different par's....  like, since youre exporting 856x480 maybe use square pixels instead of the usual avi 720x480 16:9 par... it might squish it back to what you want....

                               

                              yes, robodog1 got lost in cyberspace a while ago...here at the forums...I think he is OK and running amok having fun out there...

                              • 12. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                                Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                As Rod mentioned, AVI is but a wrapper, and almost anything can be inside those files. This ARTICLE goes into a lot more detail.

                                 

                                It also offers tips on "peeking inside the wrapper," with G-Spot, or MediaInfo. If you could post that information, then someone can specifically address how best to handle that material.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                                  Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                  A  720x480 size DV-AVI file saved from MovieMaker 2.6 shows up in Premiere... that's good... but it has an even wider, pulled out appearance in the Premiere preview window.

                                   

                                  That is most likely due to a mis-match between the PAR (Pixel Aspect Ratio) in the Project/Sequence, and that of the Source Files.

                                   

                                  As with the aVI's above, those utilities will tell you the PAR of the Source Files.

                                   

                                  Let us know what the PAR of your files is, and what the PAR in your Project is. That will be the key.

                                   

                                  Good luck,

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                                    numetro Community Member

                                    Hi guys,

                                     

                                    As far as I know, the project's "PAR" is 16:9... but that's loose definition since I've seen 720x480 defined as 16:9 and 4:3, and otherwise seen 856x480 (or 854x480) defined as 16:9... not sure about all those overlapping defs... and I don't have G-Spot or MediaInfo to "peek inside the wrapper" of the failed AVI files... since those AVIs were made from two different converter apps, I suspect it's more a problem with the limitations of what Premiere will understand in AVI files.

                                     

                                    I'm converting and  re-rendering files back and forth between MM2.6 and Premiere so much  here that it is becoming mind boggling... and the DVI-AVI at 629 MB for a  3 minute clip is huge compared to the WMV or the other converted AVIs  that wouldn't work in Premiere at 44, 54 and 74 megs.

                                    I created the crawling horizontally scrolling text in MovieMaker 2.6 with a bit of XML code saved to a notepad file and installed there... and imported a PhotoStory3 pan  and zoom AVI in to the main project file in MM2.6, then I have a series of clips also made in a separate file  in MM2.6 for the easy editing and a very sharp WMV file that MM2.6  renders... but Premiere won't import WMVs... and in Premiere I have a  motion graphic that I'm putting on top of the 3 minute compilation of  clips made in MM2.6... didn't want to get in the full clip editing thing  in Premiere right now since my other files were made in MM2.6 for the easy crawling text feature (not available for WLMM2011)... going to re-import this AVI of the motion graphic on top  of the 3 minute compilation of clips from Premiere back in to the  original, full video base project in MM2.6 with the crawling text and  the imported PhotoStory3 zoom and pan video.

                                    Yikes!

                                     

                                    The rendered video  with the motion graphic on top of the 3 minute clip compilation from  Premiere (which has the problem clip now rendered from MM2.6 as a DV-AVI  720x480) looks good, but just a little pixelated, I guess from  stretching the 720x480 to 856x480... but will work... good to finally  see it.

                                    Now I will re-import that back in to the main project in MM2.6.

                                    "My brain iisss geetttting tttiiirrreddd... I'm feeling strange Dave... I'd like to sing you a song... it's called "Daisy"...

                                    I have a clip of this dialog from "2001 A Space Odyssey" posted online  along with the theme music, but the site is having problems loading  anything right now... maybe it's tired too.

                                    I may experiment a little with the MOV conversion option, but I don't  have a converter that says it converts to MOV, just MPEG-4 and MPG  H.264... but this worked and is great!

                                     

                                    If anyone knows of a video file converter that will convert directly to MOV format, let me know... WinFF and Freemake Converter only convert to MPEG-4 and MPG H.264.

                                    "Daisy, Daisy..."

                                    • 15. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                                      Community Member

                                      hehehe...you funny.

                                       

                                      I sorta have had some experience with the par problems with 16:9 sd stuff...as 4:3 and 16:9 ( both sizes) are NOT square pixels.

                                       

                                      unlike hd 16:9 which IS square pixels.

                                       

                                      sooo, since I have photoshop 7 version ( which only deals with square pixels ) and cs3....I've had to convert graphics to fit the 16:9 video, which becomes 856x480 or something close to that ( hehe..even THAT is sometimes not exact ...daisy, daisy )

                                       

                                      But...on export....that video that is non square pixel and the graphics that ARE square...get treated differently by different export codecs and programs etc...( I found Quicktime treats exports different than Premiere pro cs3 when it comes to this stuff )....so whats this all about ?????

                                       

                                      basically...its      WHAT WORKS !  is the solution !!!!!

                                       

                                      so good luck...but at least you know now that the square pixel equiv of 16:9 sd is in fact ( in certain versions of premiere ) handled as 853x480 ( or was it 856 ? )

                                       

                                      AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

                                       

                                       

                                      • 16. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                                        numetro Community Member

                                        robodog,

                                         

                                        I think you lost me at the last chase scene.

                                         

                                        Is there a converter out there that will covert to MOV format from WMV or AVI?

                                         

                                        PS: While I'm still not recieving any email alerts about posts on my own threads on this forum, I just received an email alert about a new post that I'm not subscribed to posted by Jim1140... powered by "Jive Software" indeed.

                                         

                                        numetro

                                        • 17. Re: Video on background layer is not showing up behind motion graphic.
                                          Community Member

                                          first of all....ITS BEER THIRTY !

                                           

                                          not only THAT... but there's all kinds of silly stuff going on...

                                           

                                          so although Im slightly distracted by the beer molecules in my bloodstream at the moment...I can say DEFINITELY 2 things.

                                          1) avi is not something absolute

                                          2) mov is not something absolute.

                                           

                                          you keep thinking they ARE.  BUT they are not...you can have as many as probably 1600 codecs inside a mov or avi file.

                                           

                                          ( just exaggerating as per beer molecules seeing double etc )

                                           

                                          soooo...the simple answer to your question is

                                           

                                          YES ! there is a converter out there to convert your wmv and avi movies to mov and its called ADOBE PREMIERE PRO !

                                          ( theoretically at least ---and especially if you're on a pc and have quicktime pro installed )

                                           

                                          Lets get serious for a moment.   There is no reason in the world why the editing program you have , using assets that it can handle, cannot export to just about ANYTHING in the known universe.....

                                           

                                          unless , of course, it can't.