19 Replies Latest reply: Sep 17, 2014 6:31 PM by venus hover RSS

    [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode

    GaahsHasa

      Well, I have switched from my good old DV camera's to shooting HD footage using Panasonic HDC-HS60 camera.

       

      On the DV format (SD) I used Premiere to capture the tapes and on the timeline cutting the clips, joining clips etc etc. No fancy effects or transitions.

      Then I export the DV sequence to disc in the DV avi format.

      This is to create a library/archive of my video's in the DV format.

       

      Exporting from Premiere does no transcoding. And a very important thing to mention: the exported DV avi contains the original datecode.

      Then after exporting I use several tools to extract the datecode from the exported DV clips and create .sub or .srt files.

      So when playing the footage on PC, I can show the datetime of the footage as sublitles.

       

      And more important, when using the exported DV clips and create a DVD, I use the .srt files as subtitles in Encore so the final result is a nice collection of clips on DVD where you can show the date/time of the footage. This way all info (the clips and the date/time it was shot) is retained and as collection of DVD's.

       

      But now the HD footage shot with my Panasonic.

       

      First issue was how to create .srt files from .mts files. After many searches I found there is (not yet) a simple way to extract the datetiume code from a .mts file. So I'm in the process of creating a tool which actually does this and it works. I can extract the datetime code from the original .mts files and save it as .srt files. It is not finished yet, but right now I can actually do the same with HD .mts files as I did with the old DV files.

       

      Problem is how to retain the datetime code of the .mts files when cut in Premiere CS5.

      When I drop a .mts file on the sequence and without any editing want to export it to another file, it is unclear to me which output format to choose.

      Premiere should not transcode the video, there is no change to the footage. So it should actually save to the new file as .mts without touching it.

       

      The formats I used (keep sequence settings) when exporting create a mpeg file and not a .mts file. But the file extension does not bother me, it is the datetime code which is. I need to export the mts footage to a file which retains this info. So I can use the srt creation tool to extract the datetime code from the exported files.

       

      So first question. How to instruct Premiere to use the same settings as the source .mts file and do no transcoding and keep the datecode intact ?


      Is it possible to create other formats which will "copy" this info from the original files to the according info streams of the detination format?

      Most new formats have these internal info streams, so how to use it in Premiere?

        • 1. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
          Colin Brougham Community Member

          First issue was how to create .srt files from .mts files. After many searches I found there is (not yet) a simple way to extract the datetiume code from a .mts file. So I'm in the process of creating a tool which actually does this and it works. I can extract the datetime code from the original .mts files and save it as .srt files. It is not finished yet, but right now I can actually do the same with HD .mts files as I did with the old DV files.

           

          That's very enterprising, but you may want to take a look at DVMP Pro 5, which I believe will create SRT files from AVCHD files. That particular feature is detailed here: Export Subtitles

           

          Premiere should not transcode the video, there is no change to the footage. So it should actually save to the new file as .mts without touching it.

           

          Premiere does not work this way with interframe compressed footage, like MPEG-2 or AVCHD. In other words, it doesn't do what is typically referred to as "smart encoding," whereby only changed frames are recompressed. This is a by-product of how these formats are originally encoded, not necessarily how Premiere handles them.

           

          The short version is that any MPEG-based asset, like those from your camera, will be re-encoded on export, regardless of the destination format you choose. You'll have to look at a more specialized third-party tool to handle editing these files losslessly. I've tinkered with a couple, with usually not great results; many times, the audio and video will go out of sync.

           

          Is it possible to create other formats which will "copy" this info from the original files to the according info streams of the detination format?

          Most new formats have these internal info streams, so how to use it in Premiere?

           

          Check the "Metadata" button in the Export Settings window. You should be able to specify what metadata is included and how in the destination format of your choice.

          • 2. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
            GaahsHasa Community Member

            Thanks for your answer !

             

            I have indeed looked at DVMP Pro, but it is not free (as most extraction tools for DV avi are free) and the trial version does not have the extract as subtitles feature enabled. The price is too much for only this task.


            I am working together with someone to develop a simple tool to just extract the datecode from the avchd stream into an intermediate file. This file contains all interesting data like the datetime code and the GPS information (if it is present). The core of the tool is build by him using the ffmpeg library and I am tweaking it so it can be integrated into a GUI based application which supports multiple files and by using templates to create .srt or .sub files in the format you like.

            Maybe you can compare the features to this new tool to DvSubMaker, which does quite the same for DV files.

             

            It is good to know now that Premiere is not the right application to use for making video archives. I need to keep the original footage, but only raw edited.

            So cutting and joining is the only operation performed. The result clips are stored. From them all kinds of output media is created like DVD's.

             

            It is a pitty that Premiere does not support this (not transcoding the footage). I do not like to use other tools as I am very pleased with Premiere.

            • 3. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
              GaahsHasa Community Member

              I'm just curious.

               

              Will there be any update to Premiere where these video's can be edited without transcoding (like DV avi's) ?

              Usage of HD material will be more common as more and more people will get into the HD camcorder arena.

              It is a pitty Premiere does not support the simple cuts and pastes of HD material without transcoding.

               

              As for this I would like to suggest this new feature.

              • 5. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                the_wine_snob Community Member
                Will there be any update to Premiere where these video's can be edited without transcoding

                 

                I rather doubt it, but am not on the Adobe PrPro development team, so am just speculating.

                 

                As Colin mentions, it's a difference between I-frame and GOP, and for true frame-accurate editing, the GOP is converted, so no more difference-frames. This ARTICLE will give you a bit of background, though you are probably way beyond this.

                 

                Now, there are several consumer editing programs, that offer Smart Rendering, but those are not without problems. Sony's Vegas comes to mind, and I think that CyberLink's PowerDirector, and Magix MovieEdit Pro will allow for it also. Note: any time that a user changes the footage, say with a PiP, or overlay Title, or any Effect, the footage WILL need to be re-encoded. Same for the footage, where a Transition has been added - the footage "beneath" the Transition will need to be re-encoded. This is one of the areas, where users complain, as the quality falls, at every Transition, so the viewer will notice a change there. So long as butt-cuts are used, things are better, so long as no overlays, or Effects are used.

                 

                This is just one of the weaknesses to using heavily-compressed GOP material.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 6. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                  GaahsHasa Community Member

                  I read on the Adobe website on Premiere CS5.5 this:

                   

                  [quote]

                  Native AVCHD support

                  Import and natively edit AVCHD content from Sony, Panasonic, and Canon  cameras without transcoding or rewrapping the content. Use the Media Browser to  browse clips and view metadata — including metadata from Panasonic AVCCAM  cameras.

                  [/quote]

                   

                  Well, does this mean this version does support editing without transcoding?

                  • 7. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                    Colin Brougham Community Member

                    Well, does this mean this version does support editing without transcoding?

                     

                    Yes... I mean, no... or, yes. Depends what you're asking. CS5.5 is going to be no different than CS5; you can edit without transcoding, but you can't export without transcoding.

                    • 8. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                      GaahsHasa Community Member

                      Ok, clear and indeed obvious when reading the feature text.

                       

                      But one question.

                       

                      All video of any source is edited without transcoding in Premiere, is it?

                      When the original footage is present, the edits, effects and transitions are rendered using the original footage within Premiere.

                       

                      So what does edit without transcoding within Premiere for AVCHD mean (especially) ?

                      • 9. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                        Colin Brougham Community Member

                        All video of any source is edited without transcoding in Premiere, is it?

                         

                        Correct; that is, any format and codec that is supported by Premiere, either natively or a third-party addon like Mainconcept, can be edited without needing to do any transcoding or generating of intermediate files. This is a pretty long list, actually, and covers a great deal of the available devices and software that are capable of generating media files. AVCHD falls into this category; simply import and edit.

                         

                        So what does edit without transcoding within Premiere for AVCHD mean (especially) ?


                        See the above reply. It means that you don't have to convert the files from one format to another in order to edit them. Note the emphasis on "edit." You don't have to do anything out of the ordinary in order to get these files into Premiere and arrange them in a sequence. However, when it comes to export, you will experience transcoding of one sort or another. There are some instances that are exempt from this; for example, if you edit DV video in a DV sequence, apply no effects or transformations, and then export to a DV AVI or MOV, there will be no transcoding of the video--even if you edit the footage. It's sort of a copy-and-paste, in this case. However, AVCHD does not fall into this category; Premiere has no provisions to export an edited AVCHD clip/sequence to another AVCHD clip without reencoding the video stream. Mainconcept may provide this--I haven't looked, but I believe it does for MPEG-2--but with Premiere, you will incur a transcode and subsequent quality loss when working with AVCHD.

                        • 10. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                          J. Simon Community Member

                          You don't have to do anything out of the ordinary in order to get these files into Premiere

                           

                          The reason Adobe emphasizes this point is that with it's two main rivals, Avid and Final Cut, you can't do that with a lot of formats (including AVCHD).  Those editing systems require a lengthy transcoding process, taking up additional hard drive space, before you can even edit certain media.  With Adobe software, that pre-edit transcode step is skipped, saving both space and time.

                          • 12. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                            cykehjul3 Community Member

                            Have anyone found a solution to this ?

                             

                            i.e.edit and add .mts clips in premier and somehow extract timedateoriginal meta or something of the finshed sequence to be able to generate a .srt file for a time subtile track. ?

                             

                            i am strugling with this.

                             

                             

                            subtitlemaker ( http://code.google.com/p/sublib1/downloads/list ) does generate a text based on the meta data of a .mts file, the problem is that if you want to add multiple .mts clips and edit in premier, you seem to lose the info.

                             

                            thinking loud: i could maybe (?) add all clips (raw) into encore, and add a subtitle track (based on subtilemaker), export as a single file (which format?), import into premier pro and edit and export (which format?), and the subtitle track is keept ??

                             

                            any ideas please..?

                             

                            Thanks..

                            Per

                            • 13. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                              Eltrym69

                              not an answer.... I would like to know how to put my mts file on the time line and

                              cut some of the lenght like 3 min down to 15 sec and export the new file out as mts

                              just changing the name for instance for the new file

                              • 14. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                                J. Simon Community Member

                                That's the very basis of editing, Eltrym.  If you'd like to know how to use the software, the link below is not a bad place to start.

                                 

                                FAQ: How do I learn Premiere Pro?

                                • 15. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                                  Eltrym69 Community Member

                                  Jim,

                                  Thank you for your responce but i guess everyone is miss understanding

                                  what I'm trying to do example, taking a file    (interview_1_00025.mts)    a 5 minute

                                  file taking it down to 15 seconds of its content re naming the file and saving it as

                                  (interview_1A_00025.mts) and not changing a thing, so I'll have a new set of files for my

                                  edit as mts files with much smaller file sizes....   Is this an impossible feat...

                                  Jim I've been editing in Premiere since the Pinacle days 1996.... Showing my age LOL

                                  AL Messina

                                  Don't know why they used my Eltrym69 instead of my name, maybe I'm losing my mind

                                  and didn't login correctly????

                                  • 16. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                                    J. Simon Community Member

                                    Is this an impossible feat...

                                     

                                    With Adobe software, yes.  The export will change it.

                                    • 17. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                                      Eltrym69 Community Member

                                      Thank you for the confirmation, someone has been argueing with me that it could be done

                                      and it has driven me crazy $#^%@&$*% looking for it???? again

                                      Thank You

                                      Al Messina

                                      • 18. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                                        J. Simon Community Member

                                        With a plug-in it may be possible, but not with Adobe tools alone.

                                        • 19. Re: [avchd/.mts] Edit clips and export (no transcoding) and retain datecode
                                          venus hover

                                          I usually use third party software to convert .mts and other avchd container wrapped video formats (tod, tp, trp, mod for example) to .mov to ensure smoothly edit them under Adobe. there are many of these software can be download, I personally like to use avchd converter, wish u luck.