37 Replies Latest reply on May 22, 2011 6:02 PM by Jeremy AB

    Mixed Measurements Causes Crash

    Jeremy AB Level 1

      I am getting a crash if I change a document size by subtracting an amount by using a different measurement unit other than the default unit.

       

      For example, I have a document height of 17 inches and I need to remove 18 millimeters. So in the size box after 17 I type -18mm... the moment I either tab out of that box or click OK, InDesign freezes and then crashes. I've tried various measurement combos and it seems to only cause the crash if I subtract in a different measurement unit. It does not crash if I first change the units to millimeters and then subtract millimeters, or inches for inches, or picas for picas etc... only if the 2 measurement units in the math are different.

       

      It crashes in the "New Document" box, and also the Document Setup box (on existing files).

       

      Using InDesign 7.0.2

      Mac OS 10.6.4

        • 1. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
          Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Wow - I'd say that's a bug.

           

          Remind me never to do that again

           

          https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

          • 2. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

            OW!

             

            Happens here, too.

            • 3. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
              HeyMikey Level 3

              Here too. It didn't do that before, as I used to subtract three points many times when doing die lines, to compensate for paper thickness. I'll file a bug report as well!

               

              Cheers,

              Mikey

              • 4. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                Jeremy AB Level 1

                This is not fixed in 7.0.3

                • 5. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                  Colin Flashman Adobe Community Professional

                  Yep... getting the same fault @ work too.

                   

                  indesign CS5 v7.0.3 mac os 10.6.4

                  • 6. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                    Jeremy AB Level 1

                    There have been InDesign updates since I reported this bug, including the 7.0.4 update released today, and still the bug persists.

                     

                    This is a HUGE deal... if they expect us to use InDesign CS5 where I work I would have to deal with it crashing all day. I frequently need to subtract millimeters from my layouts for one of our presses...

                    • 7. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                      smoothsea Level 3

                      Hi Jeremy,

                       

                      Is there any reason why you can't change the measurement units of your documents to millimeters? A quick cmd-k and choose units and measurements and you're there. Or you could script the change (and the resize as well, now I come to think of it).

                       

                      Regards,

                       

                      Malcolm

                      • 8. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                        Jeremy AB Level 1

                        That is a workaround, but it's not a fix. It shouldn't be crashing and mixed measurements has worked in previous versions. We use CS3 at the print shop where I work and I do mixed measurements all the time - no crashing. I prefer to work mostly in Picas, but occasionally need to mix it up with inches and since our Press works in millimeters that makes it interesting too.

                        • 9. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                          John Hawkinson Level 5

                          If it's important to you, have you asked Adobe Support? What do they say?

                          • 10. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                            Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            This still isn't fixed in the latest patch!

                            • 11. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                              Jeremy AB Level 1

                              I've filed a bug report twice now. I have not heard a thing from Adobe about it.

                               

                              And it doesn't matter if it's only important to me... it's a consistent way to crash InDesign, it should be fixed.

                              • 12. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Jeremy AB wrote:

                                 

                                I've filed a bug report twice now. I have not heard a thing from Adobe about it.

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                And you won't

                                 

                                And it doesn't matter if it's only important to me... it's a consistent way to crash InDesign, it should be fixed.

                                 

                                I agree

                                • 13. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                  John Hawkinson Level 5
                                  I've filed a bug report twice now. I have not heard a thing from Adobe about it

                                  My question was not whether you had filed a bug report, by which I assume you mean (http://adobe.com/go/wish). My questoin was what Adobe Support has said. If you have a bug that matters to you that you have business reasons to get fixed, you'll need to open a technical support case with Adobe and escalate it with them. At the very least you should get some amount of feedback through that process.

                                   

                                  Have you done so?

                                  • 14. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                    Marijan Tompa [tomaxxi] Level 4

                                    Hey,

                                     

                                    This issue has been fixed in CS5.5.

                                     

                                    --

                                    Marijan (tomaxxi)

                                    • 15. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                      Jeremy AB Level 1

                                      I filed a bug report here:

                                       

                                      https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                       

                                      I have been in correspondence with Adobe for 2 bugs I found in Photoshop and all I did was post in the forum here and do a bug report in the link above, but I've heard nothing back about the InDesign bug. I have no idea how to open a technical support case.

                                       

                                      Seems like Adobe is rolling fixes into CS5.5 instead of CS5 and I'm not buying that upgrade just for fixes.

                                      • 16. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                        John Hawkinson Level 5
                                        I have been in correspondence with Adobe for 2 bugs I found in Photoshop and all I did was post in the forum here and do a bug report in the link above, but I've heard nothing back about the InDesign bug. I have no idea how to open a technical support case.

                                         

                                        You do so at Adobe's Customer Support site: adobe.com/go/supportportal.

                                         

                                        Seems like Adobe is rolling fixes into CS5.5 instead of CS5 and I'm not buying that upgrade just for fixes.

                                        I suspect you're not going to win on this one.

                                        • 17. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                          Jeremy AB Level 1

                                          Thanks for the link, I've submitted a case.

                                           

                                          My whole experience with CS5 has been very disappointing with regards to bugs. I've found some serious ones in PS, ID, AI and in a year since buying CS5 none of them have been fixed and only the PS ones have been acknowledged by Adobe. As a user of Photoshop since version 4, Illustrator since version 7 and InDesign since version 2, I think CS5 has been the buggiest.

                                          • 18. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                            Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            That's no use for the people in CS5 - and not upgrading.

                                            • 19. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                              John Hawkinson Level 5

                                              If you had any bug acknowledged by Adobe that you didn't communicate via a paid support channel, then you should consider yourself extremely lucky, because that's generally not the way things work... Realities...

                                              • 20. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                Jeremy AB Level 1

                                                In case anyone is curious, the official response from Adobe has been "the big is fixed in CS5.5".

                                                When I asked for clarification, that they are saying I should pay for an upgrade just to fix a bug, they replied with the same.

                                                 

                                                Not impressed. Adobe can forget about me upgrading for a LONG time if this is the way they do things now, expecting users to pay for bug fixes with their new yearly release schedule.

                                                • 21. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                  Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  They won't be fixing it in any updates because it's not reported enough for them. They will fix bugs but only the one's at the top of the list of things that are really really wrong. This bug of crashing with mixed measurements is a bit obscure. But if you keep filling out that form https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform and get people to fill it out too.

                                                   

                                                  Also head over to the Bug/Feature Request Forum and post it there too and ask people to submit it as a bug.

                                                   

                                                  No guarantee it will work, but I understand Adobes position. And I agree, they shouldn't be telling you to upgrade to fix bugs.

                                                  • 22. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                    Jeremy bowmangraphics Level 2

                                                    Eugene wrote:

                                                    they shouldn't be telling you to upgrade to fix bugs.

                                                     

                                                    A complacency has crept into Adobe that wouldn't be there if it weren't a monopoly. Some sort of anti-monopoly commission must step in sooner or later and break it up into smaller parts that are honestly competing with each other.

                                                    • 23. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                      I wouldn't give up hope entirely of seeing a fix in CS5. Apparently there is at least one more patch in the pipeline -- someone last week mentioned they were using 7.0.5, a rapid-release patch issued to participants in the Partners program, which means it's probably in testing and may get public release in a few weeks. 7.0.4 was available to partners for a period of time before it was released to rest of us. Unless the code used to fix the problem in 7.5 is completley incompatible with 7.0, I would be surprised if it didn't make it into the patch.

                                                      • 24. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                        Jeremy AB Level 1

                                                        I keep getting the same "copy and paste" stock response from Adobe, word for word. This is what they keep saying, 3 times now:

                                                         

                                                        Thank you for your prompt response.

                                                         

                                                        I understand your situation and I apologize as you are facing this issue with Adobe CS5 product.

                                                         

                                                        Now, we have rectified this issue in Adobe CS5.5 , which is the latest release of the product.

                                                         

                                                        In case you have any other queries, then please let me know. I will be more than happy to assist you.

                                                         

                                                        Thank you for contacting Adobe Technical Support.

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        ...then they basically instruct me to download the trial copy of CS5.5 to see for myself that it is indeed fixed.

                                                        • 25. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                          Jeremy AB Level 1

                                                          Eugene Tyson wrote:

                                                           

                                                          They won't be fixing it in any updates because it's not reported enough for them. They will fix bugs but only the one's at the top of the list of things that are really really wrong. This bug of crashing with mixed measurements is a bit obscure. But if you keep filling out that form https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform and get people to fill it out too.

                                                           

                                                          Also head over to the Bug/Feature Request Forum and post it there too and ask people to submit it as a bug.

                                                           

                                                          No guarantee it will work, but I understand Adobes position. And I agree, they shouldn't be telling you to upgrade to fix bugs.

                                                          Thanks Eugene, I will fill out that form again. I had already filled in that bug report twice, even way back since 7.0.2 when I first encountered the bug. I will fill that out again too I guess! Fingers crossed that they come to their senses. I agree with what's been said here... if they were not such a monopoly, they would work with customers to fix bugs. An obscure bug if still a bug. If one can recreate it every time then it should be fixed.

                                                          • 26. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                            I've been informed by someone who should know that it is not fixed in the 7.0.5 update, either, but I'm not ready to give up entirely. I know Matthew Laun is still investigating some export issues, and if they issue a patch for those, maybe they'll fix your problem, too. Of course, I tend to be optimisitic about this stuff.

                                                            • 27. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                              Jeremy AB Level 1

                                                              Makes me wonder why they fixed it in 5.5 but not 5.0 - did it just get fixed by accident? Couldn't the people who fixed it in 5.5 tell the 5.0 people what they did? Assuming they are different teams.

                                                              • 28. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                                I don't honestly know if it is the same people working on bugs after release and doing new work on the next release. I suspect internal communication isn't always as good as it might be, though. Seems to be very little cross-talk among the different product teams.

                                                                 

                                                                It's also possible that the fix really won't work in 7.0. There was a lot of new code written for 7.5, and while it might not seem related, it could be that the fix is part of that new code.

                                                                • 29. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                                  Jeremy AB Level 1

                                                                  LOL and some of that new code in 7.5 is the ability to disable frame edge highlighting... my pet peeve!

                                                                  • 30. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                                    John Hawkinson Level 5

                                                                    Aside from the specific question of whether this bug fixed in a future release, I think it's worth clarifying some perspective about releases.

                                                                     

                                                                    The post that mentioned 7.0.5 was this one, and it suggests that the rapid release in question fixes just three bugs. Not the dozens that were fixed in 7.0.4.

                                                                     

                                                                    Furthermore, Rapid Releases may never see the light of day. There were rapid releases issued for CS2 and CS3 a year after their last public release that were never publicly released, for instance.

                                                                     

                                                                    I don't have inside information on Adobe's release engineering process, but I can give some general information on how it usually works in the software industry. Typically once a new release branches from the development code, older releases are locked down and no one is permitted to make changes to those branches without going through some sort of approval process.

                                                                     

                                                                    I would guess that with Adobe, the only fixes that would make it in to CS5 now that CS5.5 has released are those that are escalated through a support contract and approved by the InDesign product management team. That's speculation, but I think it's pretty likely.

                                                                     

                                                                    Remember also that Adobe has the development branch of InDesign, and the CS6 branch (which may or may not be the same right now), as well as the branches for CS5 and CS5.5 to maintain (let's not talk about CS4 and CS3!). The more branches there are, the more likely it is that it's really hard to get anything into an older branch. Given the relatively short times between the CS5 and CS5.5 releases, and the expectation of a similarly short timeframe before CS6, it probably means that most development effort is focusing on CS6 and not on backporting bugfixes to CS5.5, much less to CS5.

                                                                     

                                                                    Unfortunately, there is somewhat of a disconnect between the above engineering analysis and the apparent sales system. That is, a policy like the above makes a lot of sense where everyone has immediate access to the next version (e.g. without paying money). But in a system where customers have to pay to get the next release, the difference between a maintenance release (7.0.5) and a feature release (7.5) can be pretty big.

                                                                     

                                                                    Another issue is that not all customers are treated the same. Medium- to large-size customers purchase Adobe software with volume licensing that has a maintenance option, where the customer automatically gets all upgrades for free. Since it is those medium and large customers who probably find the majority of the bugs and who have the business-level clout to get those bugs raised in importance in Adobe's management, they are not likely to complain about the process. This leaves the singleton customers in a difficult position.

                                                                     

                                                                    Frankly, Adobe has made significant strides on this with their subscription model. If it works, then small customers will get free upgrades as well. Unfortunately this is small consolation to those of you who have purchased the standalone product since there's not a clear transition plan to the subscription model that doesn't sink the cash that was paid already.

                                                                     

                                                                    I'm not sure what Adobe could really do here, though. I think they would have serious pushback from the numbers people if the engineering or product management teams tried to suggest a model where free upgrades went to customers directly.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                                      Harbs. Level 6

                                                                      Peter,

                                                                       

                                                                      Rapid release patches are ALWAYS one point above the official latest patches. 7.0.5 was out before the official 7.0.4 patch was released... Whether a 7.0.5 update will make it to the masses in anyone's guess. (I'd guess yes, but there's no guarantees.) IIRC, there were four or five different 7.0.4 rapid releases.

                                                                       

                                                                      There are rapid release build for every version which are later than the last official public builds. These usually contain bug fixes which affect partner third party products specifically.

                                                                       

                                                                      Adobe places the responsibility of compatibility on partners for rapid release patches. (That's why they can release them much quicker -- less QA testing.) Bug are fixed incrementally in the rapid release program (very often at the request of partners) and dot number mean very little. Build numbers are much more significant.

                                                                       

                                                                      Harbs

                                                                      http://www.in-tools.com

                                                                      Innovations in Automation

                                                                      • 32. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                                        Jeremy AB Level 1

                                                                        I pushed the issue further with this case, and instead of the stock response from before, I now got a new response.

                                                                         

                                                                        Thank you for your response.


                                                                        I want to inform you that there were some plugins, scripts and software files which were creating the issue in CS5 product and as it can not be corrected in the same version, so we have released a new version which has solved the main issue of Adobe CS5.


                                                                        Meanwhile, please let us know if you have any other issues.


                                                                        I apologize for the inconvenience caused.


                                                                        Thank you for choosing Adobe.

                                                                         

                                                                        So different wording, but basically they acknowledge the bug and the fix is the purchase the upgrade.

                                                                         

                                                                        I also tried submitting another case and they promptly closed it.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                                          John Hawkinson Level 5

                                                                          I'm not sure I understand ... if you ask the same question, you should receive the same answer.

                                                                           

                                                                          It sounds like you're saying, "Please direct engineering to back-port the fix to CS5.0."

                                                                          Is that what you actually said?

                                                                           

                                                                          I don't know what their threshold for evaluating such things is, and it's hard to see what the business case for deciding to do that is, since this just isn't a very important feature and there are easy workarounds. But I suppose it can't hurt to ask them to do so, and if they say no, to ask them what their criteria are.

                                                                          • 34. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                                            Jeremy AB Level 1

                                                                            I didn't specifically ask for them to back-port the fix, I just stated that their "canned response" that the issue is fixed in CS5.5 was not a satisfactory answer.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                                              Jeremy AB Level 1

                                                                              I asked what further steps I can take on this issue, and this was the response. Black and white... purchase the upgrade to get the fix:

                                                                               

                                                                              Thanks for your response.

                                                                              I apologize, however, it won't be possible to fix that measurement issue in Adobe CS5. You need to purchase Adobe CS5.5 only.

                                                                              I re-apologize for the inconvenience.

                                                                              Thank you for choosing Adobe.

                                                                              • 36. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                                                Jeremy bowmangraphics Level 2

                                                                                It seems to me that that sort of thing does not constitute reasonable grounds for complaint. Software is complicated, and anything complicated is bound to contain errors. What bothers me is when some important advertised feature -- of a sort that would make you buy a product -- is broken. And instead of fixing what is broken, you are asked you to buy a new product.

                                                                                • 37. Re: Mixed Measurements Causes Crash
                                                                                  Jeremy AB Level 1

                                                                                  I haven't had a reply from them in a few days now.

                                                                                  I made a comment on how I just paid $735 last year and paying another $200 to upgrade the whole suite is not a solution. Also it seems like these "mid-cycle" upgrades are a way for them to roll bug fixes into a paid update. That seems to have silenced them.