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Alternatives to RoboHelp?

New Here ,
Apr 13, 2009 Apr 13, 2009

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I've been tasked with finding some possible alternatives to RoboHelp for our online help.  We probably will ultimately stick with RoboHelp, but I have to do my due diligence and research some alternatives.  I thought I'd ask from those who are most familiar with this market.  What are some possible alternatives to RoboHelp?  If possible, I would also like to hear what you think of those alternative, good or bad.

One issue is that it should be something that is relatively painless to transfer a few thousand help files.  I have no illusion that it can be done with no pain, but a minimal amount is preferable.

We have already researched Knowtions's Coachware.  I am impressed enough by it that I would suggest it for a brand new help file, but the conversion from RoboHelp to Coachware would be a mammoth undertaking, so we are not pursuing that.

If I can get a few names, I would be greatly appreciative.

Kevin

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Enthusiast , Apr 13, 2009 Apr 13, 2009

I've used Doc-To-Help in the past. I haven't used it in five years or so, so my info may be old with it's current version. It was pretty good for what it did. But back then it didn't develop a CHM help file as quickly as I would have liked and I frequently ran into memory issues. We switched to RH and have been using it since.

I've since looked into MadCap's Flare and have considered switching mainly to better support localization efforts in our company, although from my llimited research it's un

...

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Valorous Hero ,
Apr 13, 2009 Apr 13, 2009

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Hi Kevin

Your question would be better suited for HATT. Asking here is a bit like walking into McDonald's and asking where the nearest Taco Bell may be found.

Out of curiosity, why are you considering a move away from RoboHelp? Has it suddenly stopped producing what you need? Are there concerns regarding its future?

Cheers... Rick

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New Here ,
Apr 13, 2009 Apr 13, 2009

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Out of curiosity, why are you considering a move away from RoboHelp? Has it suddenly stopped producing what you need? Are there concerns regarding its future?

Honestly, I'm asking because I've been asked to.  RoboHelp is still producing what we need, but there is always an eye pointed at the next great thing.

I am pretty sure that we ultimately will stick with RH (which is why I don't mind asking for a Taco Bell in a McDonald's).  I suppose if we find the Holy Grail of HATTs, that could change, but the cost to switch over to a new system is a huge obstacle.

So, as I said, I'm just doing my duty of researching alternatives. I have a suspicion of what will really happen, but I'll approach those with an open mind.

Although, I keep forgetting I'm a member of a Technical Writers listserv, so I'll hit that up as well.

Kevin

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Enthusiast ,
Apr 13, 2009 Apr 13, 2009

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I've used Doc-To-Help in the past. I haven't used it in five years or so, so my info may be old with it's current version. It was pretty good for what it did. But back then it didn't develop a CHM help file as quickly as I would have liked and I frequently ran into memory issues. We switched to RH and have been using it since.

I've since looked into MadCap's Flare and have considered switching mainly to better support localization efforts in our company, although from my llimited research it's unclear if it would really provide us any real benefits in that direction. If you're like me, you'll likely find pluses and minuses in each HAT.

Here are some links to some HATs listed on WinWriters site that may be useful:

http://www.winwriters.com/restools.htm

Personally, I find the ease of use of RH's simple interface hard to beat, not to mention the friendly helpfulness of this forum.

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Guest
Apr 13, 2009 Apr 13, 2009

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I wouldn't base a switch to Flare entirely on localization concerns.  I asked Paul Pehrson (a recognized Flare expert) about Flare's ability to handle multiple languages in a project, and having not worked on a localized project before, his knowledge was limited.  What he did tell me from his understanding is that MadCap is putting Lingo forward as a localization solution, but it really benefits you only if the person doing the translating uses Lingo, and if you use it, you would be required to work out of multiple help projects. Paul wasn't aware of how Flare would handle multiple languages in the same project.  I'm trying to get better info in this area because I may soon be outnumbered here and have to switch to Flare. But from my current knowedge, I'd personally prefer RoboHelp for localized projects because I don't do the translating myself, and the translators here have their own translation memory software.

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Enthusiast ,
Apr 13, 2009 Apr 13, 2009

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In our company I am in charge of writing the English help as well as compiling and testing the translated help files and making sure it looks good in the target language. For our localization process we ship decompiled .chm files to translators to ensure RH specific stuff doesn't interfere with stored Translation Memories (TMs).

Our main concern with localization is we have a huge main help file and several other sub help files resulting in thousands of topics. When we check all of those into Across Language Server (the translation management solution our company uses), it freezes up. So, we have to use a merge tool Across developed to merge several hundred topics together into one .html page for translation and then break them back up when it's all done and ready to compile. But this makes performing any sort of update or correction to the source and target languages very difficult. The overhead is a concern.

On this web page  (http://www.xlsoft.com/en/products/madcap/lingo.html),  I saw this quote: "MadCap Software has partnered with across Systems to provide  seamless integration between Lingo, Flare and Blaze, and the across Language  Server."

So, we were hoping Flare would better work with Across; while I haven't tested it in Flare yet, my understanding is we'd still have to import thousands of files into the Across server and in the end would still have the same problem.

One additional reason to stick with RH over Flare was that from my tests, compiling a .CHM project in Flare was also a huge issue because it was considerably slower than in RH.

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New Here ,
Apr 14, 2009 Apr 14, 2009

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Hi Kevin, it's horses for courses. I use RH when I need  to produce CSH webhelp. I use Help and Manual (from EC Software) for single-source production of quality-looking PDFs and webhelp.

mike

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New Here ,
Jun 01, 2011 Jun 01, 2011

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I'm using RoboHelp9 and I got it the first day it came out, and it has been nothing but trouble. Today is another day from RoboHell9.

When I first got the program and it converted all my help projects and I started working on them—I update constantly and publish to the web—the first thing I noticed was that what used to work didn't. You should be able to apply a style or a conditional build tag and it should just work. But it didn't. It sometimes took many tries, and sometimes it simply wouldn't apply at all. All you could do was delete the text and write it again, and then apply the style you want.

The first unlivable bug was the way conditional build tags in texts that were in tables would play hopscotch and apply themselves where you hadn't put them, and would disappear where you had. I had never seen anything like it in my life. After a lot of trouble trying, I finally got through to someone in New Delhi who told me that sounded like a scripting problem and she couldn't help me, but told me to leave a detailed note somewhere, which I did. A few weeks later a patch came out that actually did fix it. I was shocked but thankful.

Today, what is making my life unlivable is a bug I noticed before, but could work around for the most part until my current project, which is bringing into a single project several smaller ones, but by picking and choosing, not en masse. What I have found today is that applying styles is not working. RoboHell9 keeps coming up with popups asking me if I want to change the style to reflect what the text is doing that I have applied the different style to, or do I want to reapply the style. This is bad enough, and I've put up with it for months, but now that isn't even working. Even when I say reapply the style, nothing happens!

I have worked as the tech writer for this company for more than two decades, and when in the interests of keeping up with the world I was forced to change everything into a webhelp internet-publishable documentation set, using RoboHelp, that was bad enough, as we still needed print versions of everything and the interface between RH and MSWord was incredibly bad. Now with RH9, not only is the interface with Word no better (I figured out ways to get around it) but now I cannot even reliably prepare publications for webhelp, because the basic functionalities of this screwy program don't even work.

There is no reason why anyone who has paid the price that Adobe asks for this crappy product (I won't even call it a tool) should have to put up with even a few minor bugs, but my entire time with RoboHelp (I started using it with RH5 and went through the training classes in person) has been plagued with problems caused by the software not doing what they say it is designed to do, and me having to develop workarounds so that I can meet my company's expectations. This can't go on. I am out searching for an alternative. And no, I don't know of any yet, but by golly, I'll find one.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 01, 2011 Jun 01, 2011

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Hi there

Sorry to hear you are so frustrated with RoboHelp. All I can offer is to say that I've been using it since version 2 (circa 1992) and I've never encountered the issues you seem to be facing. However, I'll also say that in my own use of the product I've never seriously considered it as a vehicle for transferring content from Word. So perhaps that's where the bulk of the frustration and issues lie.

When I began using RoboHelp HTML, any time I've ever been involved with Word, I've saved the Word document as a text file first, then only used the text from Word in my RoboHelp; topics. Word does some screwy things with text so it's likely that it will cause all manner of problems. Especially if God only knows who has "worked over" the Word document before you got it.

From what I'm seeing of the post, you seem to be a bit peeved that you were forced to leave the world of print and enter the world of HTML and you are now frustrated that many of the things that you understood in the print world either worked differently in this web world or didn't work at all for what you wanted and were accustomed to.

I will say that I wish you the best of luck in finding a suitable alternative. But bear in mind that nearly every tool out there will claim to solve all the issues and it's often very rare for a tool to honestly live up to the marketing hyperbole selling it. Combine that with the learning curve of coping with an alternate and you might not feel so bad about RoboHelp once you convert.

Cheers... Rick

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New Here ,
Jun 01, 2011 Jun 01, 2011

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Rick, I only use Word as the output software when I want to print. I've learned workarounds for that. The problems I am having have nothing to do with Word because I do not compose in Word and then import into RH9. I compose everything in RH9 following the rules and procedures that RH says will work. There's simply no excuse for a style not to apply when you select the text and apply the style name. But it just asks whether to redefine the style by the text or reapply the original style. Why should it ask this? I went to RoboHelp 'school' when I started using this software since RH5, and the earlier versions worked. My last upgrade was to RH7, and that worked no worse than the previous versions. But with RH9 a whole new experience of unacceptable and unpredictable malfunctions has been the story of my life with it. I fix one or think I've fixed it, and another pops up.

I just found a webpage of a company that has started a special service to help people 'fix' their pre-RH8 projects so that these kinds of malfunctions won't show up: http://www.hyperword.com/RoboHelpProjectCleanup.htm

That such a service has to be provided for users of a new software in order for their existing projects to be workable is atrocious! If such were the case, then Adobe should have taken this bull by the horns and provided workable solutions, instead of pretending not to know this would happen. Shame on them!

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LEGEND ,
Jun 01, 2011 Jun 01, 2011

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Hello again

Sorry, my bad. Somehow I misconstrued that your source content was in Word.

I would agree if what is happening is that you go to apply a style and you are suddenly greeted with a message asking if you wish to redefine the style pops up that it may be annoying. The only time I've ever seen that happen is when the style has already been defined, you change something in the text and attempt to re-apply the same style that is already applied. And in those cases it would seem perfectly reasonable that RoboHelp would interpret that I may want or need to update the style. Again, if this is happening without reason, I'd agree that it is a bug. Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing how you may be using the software. I didn't write this to make the claim that you are stupid or don't know how to use the software, only that because it doesn't happen with most users that we need to actually see what is going on first hand before we could consider it a bug or whatever.

Question for you here. Have you reported any of this to Adobe? And when I say "reported to Adobe" contacting support doesn't count. I'm talking about submitting Bug Reports. I ask because if there really is an issue they are pretty good to come back and try and help you sort it to determine what is going on.

You say you "went to RoboHelp school". Where did you get your training? Just curious

It's worth noting that between versions 7 and 8 substantial changes occurred with the topic content. Many things appeared to break. However, while the appearance was that RoboHelp broke things, in reality RoboHelp simply began behaving as a standard HTML editor would and didn't employ some of the kludgy workarounds that former versions did. As a result, we had to learn more about dealing with CSS and whatnot.

Opt for the Hyperword services if you like. All they are really doing is capitalizing on making some minor tweaks to folks' RoboHelp projects. You claim it's unfortunate that such a service has to be provided, but that's the way things go. Folks sense a need and feel they can capitalize on it. You may find that it's totally worth whatever they are chargng so you don't have to make the tweaks yourself. But I assure you there is really nothing magickal in what they will do. You can obtain the same information and figure things out on your own at no charge by hanging out in the forums and asking questions. There are many of us here that like to help with things like that.

Cheers... Rick

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New Here ,
Jun 02, 2011 Jun 02, 2011

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Rick,

Thanks for your responses. The one thing that made the most sense that you said was, 'between versions 7 and 8 substantial changes occurred with the topic content. Many things appeared to break…'

The problem I am having is this.

I am importing topics from an old project into a new one.

The old project, indeed all my projects, except the current one, were initiated in RoboHelp X5 or possibly RH7.

I skipped from RH7 to RH9. I opened all my existing projects in RH9 and it 'converted' them, when I first got RH9, and I have worked on some of them, updating things, using RH9. The worst shock was the CBT application errors. That was fixed by release patch 9.01 which I installed on 5/10/2011.

But in importing the topics from other, older projects, this is how I expect things to work:

1. Import topic.

2. Apply a master page from the current project that is appropriate.

3. Update all text, changing from the old styles (showing in UPPERCASE in the styles dropdown) by applying new styles.

This works sometimes, and other times it doesn't.

That is my problem.

And when it doesn't work on a first try, I can sometimes make it work by applying Heading 1 style, which seems to break a text out of its stubbornness, and then go and apply the new style I really want to use, and then it takes.

But on other texts that won't accept the current new style—they show as having accepted it in the styles dropdown, but visibly they do not change, nor do the style specs change (font, size, characteristics)—it takes many tries, and sometimes never works.

Meanwhile, I have to be very careful because of those popups asking me if I want to redefine the (new) style based on what the characteristics of the old style are (that I am trying to eradicate).

Once, I actually hit the wrong button and changed an important new style into the old one I want to lose.

Then I went to the CSS file and manually redefined the new style back to what it was.

The text that caused this still resisted application of any new style.

At that point, I can only delete the text, and retype it. Very frustrating.

' Have you reported any of this to Adobe? '

No, I did not report this as a bug, because I am not sure if it is or not. Thanks for the handy link to the bug reporting page, though. That's where I reported the bug with the morphing and migrating CBTags, which got fixed in about 3 or 4 weeks.

' Where did you get your training?'

April, 2004, intensive 3 day class for RoboHelp X5 in Vancouver, BC, taught by Patrick Roebuck (Virtual Page, Inc., Sausalito, CA).

The training was my first experience with RH5 and I learned enough basic concepts to be able to start using the software, but most of what I know I learned on the job, by trial and error. I have been using RH on a daily basis for the past 4 years, ad my main software tool, and from 2004 to 2007 part time, because I was the GM of my company at that time and had many other responsibilities. Now I am only engaged in documentation and tech writing.

I don't have time to spend a lot of it on forums and trying to track down answers to problems on Peter Grainge's site, though when I first discovered it I found a few helpful things, but I don't deal well with people who say such generalizing things as 'you can find the answers to your problems on my site,' and leave it at that. Either link me to the exact topic, if it really exists and you know where it is, or don't tantalise me and male me do the footwork if you know where it is. I am generous and specific when I give help instructions to people, and don't send them on wild goose chases, and I don't tolerate anyone sending me on one.

I've found your comments at least helpful in formulating my strategy. From all this and also from reading a few other internet comments, it looks to me like the 'conversion' process that RH9 uses to 'upgrade' projects created in RH7 or earlier is not perfect or seamless, but analogous to machine translation from one human language to another. It converts as best it can, html to xhtml, but there are a lot of things that remain to torment the actual process of re-editing. I am furious with Adobe for the way it handles its advertising of new software. Tell us that your newest version does all this, but please also tell us that there may be many problems when using the new software with projects created in earlier versions. Little problems I would expect. The problems I am encountering are not, in my opinion, little.

To go to a different software will mean a lot of work, so I am still caught in a catch-22 scenario.

What to do next? (This is a rhetorical question only.)

Thanks again for your comments.

NG

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Community Expert ,
Jun 02, 2011 Jun 02, 2011

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I don't deal well with people who say such generalizing things as 'you can find the answers to your problems on my site,' and leave it at that.

Like you I have a job to do so if the answer is on my site I am not going to retype that information. What I do instead is say it is on my site and I usually add exactly which topic it will be in.

I didn't in your case as it was a hurried reply in the evening and I just wanted to get the information to you. In future I will wait until I have more time and in this case that would have been the next day.

There is a Search facility on my site and the menus make it easy to find topics. On the RoboHelp menu there is an item "Lists" so it was hardly a wild goose chase. Had you come back saying "Peter, I can't find what you say will help" I would have responded.

I will leave others to handle your posts rather than antagonise you further and hope that you will find some other site with better information.


See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

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Engaged ,
Jun 03, 2011 Jun 03, 2011

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HI NG,

      

And when it doesn't work on a first try, I can sometimes make it work by applying Heading 1 style, which seems to break a text out of its stubbornness, and then go and apply the new style I really want to use, and then it takes.

But on other texts that won't accept the current new style—they show as having accepted it in the styles dropdown, but visibly they do not change, nor do the style specs change (font, size, characteristics)—it takes many tries, and sometimes never works.

Meanwhile, I have to be very careful because of those popups asking me if I want to redefine the (new) style based on what the characteristics of the old style are (that I am trying to eradicate).

Once, I actually hit the wrong button and changed an important new style into the old one I want to lose.

I was trying to understand your problem with the above para in focus and it seems that you might be having some inline styles or rather internal CSS defined inside HTML, only in such scenarios such a problem could occur, I can try to help but only if you can mail me the HTML topic and the CSS applied on them (if possible RH 7 zipped project) to me @ ashishchandra.gupta@gmail.com  ..

and its true that there has been a major change in RH HTML to XHTML and at times what makes sense in HTML might not stand correct in XHTML and such scenarios we need to take proper actions,what I would suggest  you can also try upgrading the older RH 7 project with RH 9.0.1 (updated build) again and it might help a bit.

On the similar lines styling should be completely segregated from HTML content and this might be the root cause of the problems you are facing

Ashish

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New Here ,
Jun 01, 2011 Jun 01, 2011

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I reread your response, and you sound as if you think I am peeved that things don't work in RH as they did in PageMaker or whatever I was using before. That's not the case, brother. I have learned long ago to figure out and make best use of online publishing tools, and I am not a beginner in that sense at all. So please don't make me out to be a pouting antiquarian. A good product meets the needs of its purchasers and users without twisting their heads off in the process, or, if that is what is going to have to happen, they need to tell their potential customers what is really different about the 'new' software or other product: 'Yes, it's so much better in this and that and the other thing, you'll just love it. Oh, by the way, none of your projects will work right, of course, until you have done so and so to them.' Adobe says nothing about the downside, only what they think is so great. Yes sir, I am angry, but I have a right to be. Thanks.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 01, 2011 Jun 01, 2011

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Hello again

romanos51 wrote:

I reread your response, and you sound as if you think I am peeved that things don't work in RH as they did in PageMaker or whatever I was using before.

Hmmm, so how should I have interpreted the following statement you made?

...I have worked as the tech writer for this company for more than two decades, and when in the interests of keeping up with the world I was forced to change everything into a webhelp internet-publishable documentation set, using RoboHelp, that was bad enough,...

Oh, and in re-reading your post I now see where I concluded you must have been editing using Word and bringing that into RoboHelp and that's where the trouble may have been coming from.

...and the interface between RH and MSWord was incredibly bad. Now with RH9, not only is the interface with Word no better (I figured out ways to get around it) but now I cannot even reliably prepare publications for webhelp, because the basic functionalities of this screwy program don't even work...

Cheers... Rick

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Community Expert ,
Jun 01, 2011 Jun 01, 2011

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Given the problem you encountered with CBTs, I have to ask if you applied the service release? That fixed such a problem.


See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

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Community Expert ,
Jun 01, 2011 Jun 01, 2011

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I believe the Hyperword service is mostly related to problems with lists that can occur when you upgrade to 8 or 9. Those problems can be fixed by following instructions on my site.


See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

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Community Expert ,
Jun 01, 2011 Jun 01, 2011

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There's simply no excuse for a style not to apply when you select the text and apply the style name. But it just asks whether to redefine the style by the text or reapply the original style. Why should it ask this?

I would have to check out the steps that invoke that but Word does exactly the same.


See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

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New Here ,
Jun 09, 2011 Jun 09, 2011

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I completly agree with this post. I've been using Robohelp in one version or another since Robohelp 3 and can't believe the amount of time I've wasted over the years fixing things that shouldn't be broke... I'm looking for an alternative as I'm writing this..

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LEGEND ,
Jun 09, 2011 Jun 09, 2011

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Has it really been version 3? Or was it maybe X3? (I began at version 2 in about 1992. Version 3 would have been 1992 or 1993.)

Either way, you have stuck with it for a long while. I might ask why, if you feel it's really that bad.

Personally, I love the product. Show me software without flaws and I'll show you something basically unsued!

Cheers... Rick

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New Here ,
Jun 09, 2011 Jun 09, 2011

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LATEST

Probably X3 then, about 8 years.

Not loyalty, just a lack of options...

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New Here ,
Jun 09, 2011 Jun 09, 2011

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Dead Tree Frog (interesting handle!),

There is probably the 'ideal user' who has absolutely no problems with RoboHelp at all, ever. But I am not that one.

Calling RH9 'RoboHell9' will probably get me into big trouble, and on a good day I feel I could almost repent, like today—For the first time, Adobe has actually taken the initiative to telephone me and hand-hold me through trouble scenarios, all the way from New Delhi! That was this morning, and tomorrow morning my tech support man from his office will navigate me through some of the bugs I have found.

Looking for an alternative, according to another contact—this time a Boston-based trainer in both RoboHelp and its chief competitor, Madcap Flare—tells me that the user interface for RH is somewhat easier to learn than Flare, but that both software offerings do pretty much the same thing. The chief difference, he says, is that Flare has fantastic and accessible Tech Support based out of the US, as opposed to Adobe, which rather prefers to deal with tech support issues by making use of forums and chat rooms (something I haven't got time for), and from its office in India (we're one world, after all).

Tomorrow I will have an Adobe tech from New Delhi on my PC with me. Let's see what happens. If he's good, I will buy a plane ticket and move in with him. Maybe we can find a cozy studio under the walls of the Red Fort, or near Guru Bazaar. I've always loved India. It's just that sometimes their programmers don't speak the same language as I do. That's English.

Good luck on finding your way. This is not a game of Monopoly. There are no "Get Out of Jail Free" cards in the deck.

Norman Gorny
Documentation Specialist
TigerStop LLC

Vancouver, U.S.A.

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