1 4 5 6 7 8 Previous Next 424 Replies Latest reply: Aug 20, 2012 1:23 PM by Jeff Bellune Go to original post RSS
      • 200. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
        Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

        Like Paulie said, my reaction is that this disk setup is quite OK for the time being, untill you build a new system in Q3/Q4.

         

        Unlike Paulie I advise against SSD's for everybody whose wallet does not match Bill Gates' wallet. It is just hype. SSD's do not give better performance than conventional disks for editing, they are about 40 - 50 times more expensive than conventional disks per gigabyte and the only thing for SSD's is bragging rights. Nothing more.

         

        Example: The newly announced OCZ VeloDrive PCIe 8x SSD with four Sandforce controllers with capacities up to 1.2 TB. The marketing hype surrounding this VeloDrive claims read speeds up to 1050 MB/s and write speeds up to 1000 MB/s using software raid. Figures are lower with hardware raid. This for the meager sum of only € 5,299.

         

        Looks good, does it not? Well, unfortunately the marketing claims are far from the truth. The effective random write speed of 4K blocks is at best only 65 MB/s and in a worst case only 18 MB/s. Far worse than any modern conventional disk, such as a Samsung F3 for only € 38.

         

        Don't believe the marketeers, trust demonstrated performance figures like in the PPBM5 Benchmark

        • 201. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
          Tiger Bill Community Member

          Hey Paulie and Harm - Thanks so much for your advice... Greatly appreciated!

          • 202. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
            PaulieDC Community Member

            Truth be told Harm, I wouldn't touch an SSD with a 10 foot pole, not at THOSE prices, that's why I interjected the RAID card and drives, but I didn't want to scare Bill off. It's obviously easier to throw in an SSD, so I gave a totally neutral sappy safe answer. But I personally have never touched or seen one in person and have zero desire. I mean, $2.00USD per gigabyte is insane when you can get real drives for a nickle per gig. I also don't totally trust flash memory yet (if that's what an SSD uses). So, the real me agrees with you 100%.

            • 203. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
              Seastage Community Member

              Forgive me if this has already been asked. 

               

              Is there any good reason to shell out more money to get something faster than a non-raid 7200 rpm drive for the C: programs, etc, drive?  I don't care about boot times.  Just want to know if there will be any performance/rendering difference in Premiere/After Effects.

               

              Thanks!

              • 204. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                Seastage Community Member

                Also, I'm doing raid 5 with 4 1TB drives (for editing After Effects files in Premiere and Canon 5d Mark II DSLR footage) and trying to decide between

                 

                this:

                http://www.sansdigital.com/towerraid-/tr4utplusb.html

                 

                or this:

                Areca ARC-1680iX-12

                 

                Any advice on what has better performance?  If it's similar in speed I'll probably go with the Sans Digital for portability.

                 

                Thanks for any insight!!!

                • 205. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                  Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

                  The Sansdigital has a four port controller. Surprisingly if offers raid3, so internally it may be an older Areca controller. The site gives no details. Anyway, the stated performance figures did not strike me as being very fast, just normal average performance.

                   

                  In contrast the Areca ARC-1680iX-12 and the newer 1880iX-12 is a 12 port controller with extensible cache up to 4 GB, which is not available on the Sansdigital. The Areca cards have much more tuning options than the Sansdigital.

                   

                  IMO the 12 port Areca is a much better buy.

                  • 206. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                    jszei Community Member

                    What do you think about the new Areca 6Gb/s 1880 series RAID cards?

                     

                    http://www.areca.com.tw/products/1880.htm

                     

                    On a side I wonder how a couple Vertex 3's would compare with Velociraptors on these cards?

                     

                    Onboard motherboard 6Gb/s controllers have been garbage to date ie. Marvell.  I would expect these Areca cards to make the 6Gb/s drives shine.

                    • 207. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                      Gazzaspi Community Member

                      Hi Jszei

                       

                      I have the 1880ix16 running 6x2TB HItachi 6GBS here are Raid 5 and Raid 3 Benchmarks.

                       

                      I am using it in Raid 3 ATM, as the C300 is set on Pass-through it may be even better if I let the Areca control it as a single disc,(raid 1)

                       

                      Gary

                      • 208. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                        Gazzaspi Community Member

                        C300 benchmarks on and off 1880ix

                         

                        Gary

                        • 209. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                          jszei Community Member

                          Thanks Gary.  The numbers look about what I would expect.  Pretty solid.

                           

                          Some thoughts on posts I've seen in these forums raise questions I'm wondering if you or others have answers to.

                           

                          When brought up as an ideal raid solution both velociraptors and ssd's get shot down in favor of WD 7200 Blacks.  Is this only because of the cost/GB ratio or is there really no significant benefit in a raid config?  My understanding is that it's the random writes that are the biggest indicator of performance for hard drives in a editing rig.

                           

                          When SATA 2 vs. 3 or 3GBs vs 6GBs is discussed the commentary is that 6GB doesn't offer a significant improvement.  Do you have any experience with a 3GBs Areca or comperable controller and if so how do the benchmarks you posted compare?

                           

                          I just invested in a GTX570 as a first step in improving performance and so my hard drives are the only other place to improve at this point.  I currently have 4 single drives in place for various functions with no raid.  An SSD for the OS with 7200 Blacks of various sizes for the other roles such as paging/media db, project rendering and then a file store disk.  The next logical step would be towards a quality raid contoller like the Areca but the question of 3GB vs 6GB and SSD vs spindle drives and 7200 vs 10k.  I'm looking for solid reasoning behind why one is better than the other.

                           

                          Thanks for the help

                          • 210. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                            Seastage Community Member

                            This is pretty much the same place I'm in.  I'm getting 150mb/s off a $150 usb3 wd external 7200 drive now!  Yay USB3!   I'm going to start by trying raid 5 onboard and see if it plays my dslr files well.  That's all I'm really wanting is smooth playback.  The usb3 drive plays them almost perfectly but there's a slight lag which I think could improve with raid.

                            • 211. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                              Todd Mobley Community Member

                              Harm,

                               

                              First post here, and am enjoying reading your wealth of knowledge on all of these topics! Been ripping my hair out trying to figure out the best upgrade options for my current system, and figure I would ask your expertise opinion...

                               

                              My current setup:

                               

                              Mac Pro

                              • Two 2.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon "Westemeres" (8 Cores)
                              • 32GB RAM (8 x 4.0GB PC10600 DDR3 ECC 1333MHz)
                              • 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3GB/s
                              • ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB
                              • CS5 Suite (Mainly using PP and AE)
                              • Shooting and editing all DSLR footage (T2i / 7D / 5dMkii)

                               

                              I know the ATI card will not take advantage of the accelerated MPE, which sucks but i'll deal with it for now. My main issue is the disk setup. I assume spreading the scratch disks out over multiple drives will help playback and render times (which is what i'm having major trouble with now). In your opinion what would be the best drives to purchase? I don't think I want to go SSD, as the price is just a little too steep. I love the guideline setup you put together, and want to know the best configuration that will yield the smoothest playback and fastest render times.

                               

                              I am willing to invest a pretty penny on more drives, as I just rendered a 10 minute, 1080p, H.264, keyed green screen sequence out at maximum render and it took just over 9 hours. My first export this large, so I wanted to see just how long it would take.

                               

                              Any help would be appreciated!

                               

                              Todd

                              • 212. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                ECBowen CommunityMVP

                                Well without the Quadro 4000 the a 2 drive raid 0 internal is only going to improve those so much.  Spreading the files out among 3 drives wont speed up your export times on a MAC anymore than the Raid 0. The Raid 0 on OSX actually performs better than it does on the PC because of HFS+ so you would get the best times without the Quadro with your Media, cache, and export times on that. Beyond that the Quadro 4000 will be your best improvement for export times with the Mac Pro.

                                 

                                Eric

                                ADK

                                • 213. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                  Todd Mobley Community Member

                                  Eric,

                                   

                                  Thanks for your reply. What kind of improvement are we talking about with the Quadro 4000?

                                   

                                  Also, so what i'm gathering is that purchasing 2-3 more Raid 0 drives won't improve performance that much for playback or render times?

                                   

                                  Thanks,


                                  Todd

                                  • 214. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                    ECBowen CommunityMVP

                                    Well when I did our testing here the export time on the same project went from 2 hours to 40 minutes with the Quadro 4000 card. You definitely want to get the 2 drives especially if you get the Quadro since the single drive would slow the performance down that you gain from the Quadro. However splitting the drives wont help you. A 2 drive raid 0 for media will give you the best performance you are going to get with that codec on a MAC


                                    Eric

                                    ADK

                                    • 215. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                      Todd Mobley Community Member

                                      Ok, so just to be redundant. If i purchase the Quadro 4000 and two more internal raid 0 drives, my performance should increase exponentially, correct?

                                       

                                      Todd

                                      • 216. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                        ECBowen CommunityMVP

                                        It will increase like that for Premiere and Media Encoder. However AE will not be show improvement from the Quadro. If that green screen work was done in AE then only the drives would give you a performance increase.

                                         

                                        Eric

                                        ADK

                                        • 217. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                          Todd Mobley Community Member

                                          I'm keying in PP. I do a little AE work, but RAM is king for that, no?

                                           

                                          I have a high up contact at NVidia. I'll give him a ring and see what he can do.

                                           

                                          Any preference on brand name for the drives? Macsales is my usual resource...

                                          • 218. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                            ECBowen CommunityMVP

                                            Threading and RAM is what decides performance for AE.

                                             

                                            Normally we sell the WD 64 meg cache drives on the MAC and they perform very well in raid 0.

                                             

                                            Eric

                                            ADK

                                            • 219. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                              Todd Mobley Community Member

                                              Thanks again for all the help Eric! Drives arrived on Saturday (1 day!), and are installed. I'll run some tests tonight and see if i've gained any performance.

                                               

                                              All the best,


                                              Todd

                                              • 220. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                mrbreu Community Member

                                                Hi and many thanks to everybody: this forum is a wealth of informations.

                                                 

                                                I need precisions about RAID configuration though.

                                                 

                                                My future station will have an SSD for OS and programs and 12 Samsung Spinpoint  F3 HDD (Areca 1880-ix-12 controller) for working with Premiere.

                                                 

                                                What is the best performance/reliability for the 12 drives:

                                                 

                                                     1) 11 RAID 3 + 1 Hotspare

                                                     2) RAID 30 (2x6 RAID 3 layer)

                                                     3) Other?

                                                 

                                                Thank you for your suggestions.

                                                • 221. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                  Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

                                                  I consider 11+1 in raid3 too great a risk. I prefer 6 x 2 in raid30 more acceptable. For my next system I will be going for 7 x 2 (+ 2 hotspares) in raid30.

                                                  • 222. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                    mrbreu Community Member

                                                    Thank you, I will go for 6x2 RAID 30. One more question: is a stripe size of 128 KB significant in performance improvement?

                                                    • 223. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                      Another Photographer Community Member

                                                      My OS hard drive died (possibly due to heat and overcrowding in a Dell Flex Bay), so now I am reconfiguring my system.

                                                       

                                                      I will split the duties between two internal drives and two drives in an external eSATA box.

                                                       

                                                      Are there any easy recommendations for external boxes?

                                                       

                                                      I am familiar with the Macguru Burly.  One of those is nearly as expensive as my computer.  Are there any similar boxes out there that I can compare?

                                                      • 224. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                        wonderdude Community Member

                                                        May I ask for a recommendation? I've lurked quite a bit in the forum, learning as much as I can about building my own system.

                                                         

                                                        I've got everything pretty much figured out and built, except the optimal disk configuation. I have an unusual mix of different drives to work with, and I'm stumped on the ideal setup. I could use some of these drives elsewhere if they're not needed, but this system has first priority for whatever use/configuration might make it most effective.

                                                         

                                                        Here's what I have:

                                                         

                                                        Crucial C300 128GB SATA III SSD - OS, programs

                                                        4x1TB Spinpoint F3 HDDs - recently purchased, and I plan to do onboard RAID 0 (wish I could afford a controller card)

                                                        1TB Caviar Black SATA III HDD

                                                        Kingston V100 128GB SSD

                                                        OCZ Revodrive 120GB PCIe SSD

                                                        4x1TB Deskstar HDD RAID 5 external box - backups

                                                         

                                                        I'm thinking I might change the C drive to the OCZ since it's the fastest. Additionally, I have a 1500VA UPS.

                                                        Please let me know if you need any other information. Thank you!

                                                        • 225. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                          Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

                                                          Pagefile (fixed size) on one SSD, media cache and previews on another SSD, the single Caviar Black for exports, and media and projects on the raid0, provided you are diligent with your backups to the external raid.

                                                          • 226. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                            wonderdude Community Member

                                                            Dank u wel, Harm!

                                                             

                                                            May I ask for your definition of "diligent" backups? Once a day, every few hours of editing, or...?

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            On a side note, the über-geek in me wants to understand which drive would optimal for each task. I know this thread is only for general guidelines, though -- is there another thread which discusses relative advantages of individual disc performance characteristics, specific performance interpretation, and optimal editing task assignment...<snip>

                                                             

                                                            Thanks again!!

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            EDIT: I'll create a separate thread regarding drive performance questions/guidelines

                                                            • 227. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                              Rishaar Community Member

                                                              At this point i have a funny question:

                                                               

                                                              I'm upgrading my system to a simple 3 disks style: 1 F4 for OS/Apps and 2 sets of Raid0 (so 4 disks) for the rest

                                                              (All my common assets (music, graphic) are on a NAS, my daily  backups on a External Raid1 and everything else i use with my other  PC...)

                                                               

                                                              Since i won't use any raid controller on this system , i have only 6 SATA ports, the last being used by the Bluray/DVD drive.

                                                              But I never (i mean never ever!) use the Bluray/DVD drive on my editing machine, beside the first Win7/CS5 setup of course.

                                                               

                                                              Could i just get rid of it (using external DVD druve if needed) and use the extra port ? for example put a fast & small SSD dedicated for pagefile?

                                                              Is it stupid?

                                                               

                                                              Please don't hesitate to burn me in your answers, i have the feeling it's not such a great idea anyway

                                                              • 228. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                                TKlopp Community Member

                                                                Hi Harm,

                                                                 

                                                                One quick question based on the 'Guidelines for Disk Usage' please...

                                                                 

                                                                Is Pagefile the same as Scratch Disks?

                                                                 

                                                                Thanks!

                                                                 

                                                                Ted

                                                                • 229. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                                  Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

                                                                  No, pagefile is a Windows OS wide 'virtual' memory which is set from the control panel. Scratch disks are used by Adobe to locate the preview files. They can be in different locations, depending on your disk setup.

                                                                  • 230. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                                    TKlopp Community Member

                                                                    Ok... cool - but I don't see Scratch Disks listed on the sheet for Guidelines for Disk Usage... so are they a part of one of the categories listed? Where should they go for a 2 or 3 disk setup?

                                                                     

                                                                    Thanks!

                                                                     

                                                                    Ted

                                                                    • 231. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                                      Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

                                                                      They are set in the project properties and are described as the preview files in the overview.

                                                                      • 232. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                                        Rishaar Community Member

                                                                        Hi Harm

                                                                         

                                                                        What do you think about post# 227 ?

                                                                        Many thanks !

                                                                        • 233. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                                          Another Photographer Community Member

                                                                          Thank you for the great thread!

                                                                           

                                                                          When adding a RAID array, should I look for a box that has an eSATA connection, or is there a better way to hook up a RAID box to a PC?

                                                                          • 234. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                                            MichaelScarn Community Member

                                                                            wonderdude wrote:

                                                                             

                                                                            Dank u wel, Harm!

                                                                             

                                                                            May I ask for your definition of "diligent" backups? Once a day, every few hours of editing, or...?

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            On a side note, the über-geek in me wants to understand which drive would optimal for each task. I know this thread is only for general guidelines, though -- is there another thread which discusses relative advantages of individual disc performance characteristics, specific performance interpretation, and optimal editing task assignment...<snip>

                                                                             

                                                                            Thanks again!!

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            EDIT: I'll create a separate thread regarding drive performance questions/guidelines

                                                                            Depending on how important your work is to you, once a day may be enough. Personally, I would setup something automated that protects against forms of data degradation and corruption. With a little knowledge or cash (and either can be substituted for the other), one can setup a NAS device to perform hourly snapshots. Something like Solaris 11, OpenIndiana or Nexenta operating systems would be a good place to start.

                                                                            • 235. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                                              roctagon Community Member

                                                                              Are there pagefiles on Mac OS X?   If so, where do you find them and specify their location??

                                                                               

                                                                              Thanks!

                                                                              • 236. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                                                PaulieDC Community Member

                                                                                Sure are, roctagon. This should answer all your questions: http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20001215021440138

                                                                                • 237. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                                                  s h o e Community Member

                                                                                  I am planning the following approach for my drive configuration. - based on your advice

                                                                                  planning a four drive system

                                                                                   

                                                                                  600GB velociraptor for OS and programs

                                                                                  two 2 TB WD blacks running as RAID 0 to have Media, Projects, Previews and Exports

                                                                                  and  a fourth drive for Pagefiles and Media Cache - now here's my question  will like a small 60 - 80 GB SSD work for this and do i need a speedy  drive especially when i got 24 gigs of 1600Mhz RAM or a regular 7200RPM  500GB SATA drive do?

                                                                                  and ofcourse a regular external backup for the RAID setup.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  thanks

                                                                                  shoe

                                                                                  • 238. Scrubbing one layer of HD video choppy and sluggish??  What gives?!
                                                                                    roctagon Community Member

                                                                                    General question for all the gurus on the forum.  Been reading and studying at great length to understand how to optimize my setup and am still not getting the performance that my system should produce.  My configuration is:

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Mac OSX 10.6.7

                                                                                    3.2Ghz Intel i7

                                                                                    24Gb 1600MHz DDR3 RAM

                                                                                    Nvidia GeForce GTX 285 1GB RAM

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Disk Setup:


                                                                                    64GB SSD: OS and Applications

                                                                                     

                                                                                    2 Disk TB G-RAID (RAID ) via eSATA: Video Files and Premiere Pro projects

                                                                                     

                                                                                    1TB 7200rpm SATA: Previews, Media Cache, Exports

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Scrubbing just one layer of 1920x1080 .mov video from my DSLR is choppy and sluggish and forget about multiple layers with effects.  I see my performance then watch all the adobe tutorials of multiple streams of RED footage running and scrubbing smoothly and I get frustrated.  Exports are also slow and crash often.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I cannot do the PP Benchmark because I'm on a Mac but I've used MMBench disk monitoring software will playing video to check transfer speeds and I'm only getting an average of 50mb/s via eSATA when G-RAID's literature guarantees 200mb/s!  Does anybody know what I'm doing wrong or where the bottleneck is??

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I'm thinking of adding another 2TB 2 Disk RAID 0 to bring my system to a 4 disk system.  Would this make a big difference?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Also, the G-RAID is currently my main disk with pictures, AI files, documents, etc on it along with the Source Media. (I do back up religiously with Time Machine).  I have 622GB used of the 2TB G-RAID.  Does this G-RAID need to be SOLELY dedicated to Source Media to transfer data fast?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Thanks for all the info on the forum and hopefully someone can enlighten me!

                                                                                    • 239. Re: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup
                                                                                      s h o e Community Member

                                                                                      I hope this shines some light on the issue and helps even if a teeny bit.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      my System Configuration is:

                                                                                       

                                                                                      *Windows 7 professional 64 bit

                                                                                      Asus P6X58D-E

                                                                                      Intel i7 960

                                                                                      24Gb 1600Mhz Corsair DDR3 RAM

                                                                                      MSI GTX570 Twin Frozr III (Nvidia)*

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Disk Setup

                                                                                       

                                                                                      *OS and Applications  - WD Velociraptor 600GB  (10000 RPM)

                                                                                      Media and Projects - WD Black 1 TB (7200 RPM)

                                                                                      Exports and Previews - 2 X WD Black 1 TB (7200 RPM) - RAID 0 = 2TB*

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I use a Sony AVCHD camcorder generating 1080i *.m2ts files and i somehow can

                                                                                      playback my timeline very smoothly with a few effects and also am able to

                                                                                      scrub with out glitches - ok a disclaimer - my setup is very new and i

                                                                                      haven't yet edited anything beyond 5 mins with effects and layers. Also i

                                                                                      haven't exported any finished videos. I will do the premier pro bench mark

                                                                                      soon and see what i get. will post the results and/or if really bad commit

                                                                                      harakiri.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Well that's that

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