21 Replies Latest reply: Apr 16, 2014 6:11 AM by zeblis RSS

    Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !

    TonyBdfx

      When I order my buttons 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5..... WHY is it when, after I 'edit in Photoshop', that my button numbing changes???

      Yes, I DO uncheck the Automatially Number buttons. It is OFF for each menu.

       

      The numbers shufflr and I have to REORDER them again in the Properties window.

       

      WHY by the 5.1 version does this STILL happen???????  I do NOT use the Automatic numbering. I do manual. Encore is playing games with me or what?

       

      Any idea folks?

        • 1. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
          TonyBdfx Community Member

          Does the stacking order of the layers (of the buttons in Photoshop) affect the reordering when saving and going back to Encore EVEN though Automatic numbering is UNchecked in the menu??

          • 2. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
            Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

            The stacking order of your Button Layer Sets does establish the Button Numbers that Encore will use. The lowest Button will be Number 1, regardless of what you change its name to. The next one up is Number 2, and so on.

             

            If you want to control the Button Numbers, just drag the Button Layer Sets around in PS to suit your needs.

             

            When you turn Automatically Route Buttons OFF, all you do is allow for manual re-routing, by dragging the numbers in the "crosses" around to suit your needs. Just turning the Auto-Routing OFF will not re-order things - just allow you to manually do it.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
              Stan Jones CommunityMVP

              I don't use button numbers, so I experimented.  I have to admit that punching a number on the remote has its advantages.

               

              But I can't get this to update at all.  (Encore 5.0)

               

              When the menu is added, Encore takes the stacking layer order as the numbers.  But changing the order while in Edit in Photoshop does nothing to the button numbers. Automatically route on or off does nothing (and I wouldn't expect it to).

               

              Tony, are you sure Encore was changing the numbers?  Or did it just not change the numbers from what they were.

               

              I simplified the test a bit by moving nothing around on the menu.  I renamed the buttons to match their starting "button number," so that "button number" 1 is also named 1. (My buttons are never named by number - but I see the advantage.) Then I edited in PS and moved the layers.  Back in EN, 1=1 etc.

               

              IF this is the way it works, set your menu layers in the right order before bringing in to Encore (not very satisfactory in my book). Or, set the button number to the one you want for that set, then in PS, move the layer to the right position for security.

               

              Now, what am I missing?

               

              CS4 and CS3 get same results.

              • 4. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                TonyBdfx Community Member

                Unchecking all button routing choices in preference helps too, yes? As well as change the stacking order of button layers in photoshop?

                • 5. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                  TonyBdfx Community Member

                  Let me explain it like this (more simple) just so we're speaking the same language!

                   

                  You  know when you make 4 generic buttons (ie from library) and Encore (5.1)  assigns routing numbers to the button that are visible in either the  Button Property panel or when you reveal the button order with the "Show  Button Routing" button? And

                   

                  Well, lets say the button are lined up from your left to right: 1, 2, 3, 4.(routing numbers)

                   

                  Then you "Edit Menu in Photoshop", do work, save, and return to Encore.

                   

                  When you click the "Show Button Routing", most of the time, the routing is changed!!!!!!  3, 1, 2, 4

                   

                  BILL, just so I am clear and hearing it correctly:  IS it correct that the order of the buttons in thier Photoshop layer will change because of thier layer order?

                  If  true, then I would have to simply click-drag the button layers so ?? 1  is on the bottom of the stack and end up with 4 on top???.

                  PS: BILL, I go into my Preference and UNcheck all the Menu routing options now. Is this a good thing to do??

                  • 6. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                    Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                    I think you want manual routing, so you do want to keep it from setting it to automatic. I'll just say that once I set the automatic button routing preferences, I did not find it objectionable. then I

                     

                    I don't think the button routing has any effect on the button number (the number in the middle of the button routing icons). It only effects the 4 numbers on the outside of each button routing group - Whether a left arrow when on button number 1 goes to itself (no action) or button number 2, 3, 4 etc.

                     

                    To test your description of where the numbers are changing, look at the properties for a button - what is the "button number."

                     

                    I'm not where I can test this right now.  I'll look later.

                    • 7. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                      Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                      I'll look at this when I am home later.

                      You  know when you make 4 generic buttons (ie from library) and Encore (5.1)  assigns routing numbers to the button that are visible in either the  Button Property panel or when you reveal the button order with the "Show  Button Routing" button?

                      I think I know what you mean, but I worry that it may confuse things to call this a "button routing number."There is a "button number" in the properties panel. And it is, I think, this number that is in the middle of each symbol when you "show button routing." But there are all those other button routing numbers that show where an arrow operation will take you.

                       

                      My experiment showed that, after a menu is imported to Encore and the button numbers are assigned based on their layer orders (as viewed in Encore or Photoshop), the button number itself does not change just because the layers are changed. You can manually change the button numbers in the properties panel, and that change will not change their layer order nor be affected by layer order. However, numbers would appear to change if you do the following:

                       

                      As you described, you have buttons lined up left to right 1, 2, 3, 4. If you go into photoshop and move the location on the screen of the button group that is number 2 so it is now on the right of number 3 (move or don't move the layer order, it does not appear to matter), and you go back into encore and turn button routing on, you will see 1, 3, 2, 4.The button number did not change, just the position of where you put that button, right?

                       

                      If automatic routing is on, it will change what goes where to try to match its rules.  If automatic routing is off, it will not change it, but it will be odd because it has not changed.  For example, in the original 1, 2, 3, 4 arrangement, the typical arrangement is for a right arrow from button 2 to go to button 3. And button 2 left arrow to go to button 1. If you move the location of the buttons so they are now arranged 1, 3, 2, 4 and manual routing is set, button number 2 (now third from the left end) will still have a right arrow going to 3 (which is to its left), and its left arrow to 1.

                       

                      This may not be what you are seeing; I will test this when I am home later to see if it is what I think it is.

                      • 8. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                        Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                        Tony,

                         

                        Maybe these will explain how Encore sees the Button Numbers, irrespective of what one might have named the Button Layer Sets, or altered the Text appearing in the Buttons' Layer Sets. Notice the stacking order of the Button Layer Sets in my Menu in image 01. Notice, then, the Button Numbers, as Encore sees them, image 02:

                        Encore_Button_Numbers_01.png

                        Encore_Button_Numbers_02.png

                         

                        Now, if I go into PS, and swap "Lesson 2" for "Lesson 3," in the Layers Palette, then Encore will see them differently, when assigning the Button Numbers.

                         

                        Even when we change the Button Layer Set's names, or their text, it does not affect how Encore sees the Button and assigns the Button Number. Remember, the Button Numbers apply to Button Routing.

                         

                        I always change the Buttons' Layer Set names, to match my Sequences, and always manually edit the Text appearing in each Button - I turn OFF Sync Button Text and Name. This makes my Linking much easier, as I am now dealing with the Names that I have assigned, and not some abstract Button Number.

                         

                        Hope that this helps, and good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                          Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                          I'm back home and can check/test a couple things.

                           

                          Unchecking all button routing choices in preference helps too, yes?

                          No. The options at Edit -> Preferences -> Menus -> Button Routing simply tell Encore what to do when Automatic Routing is ON.  Unchecking all of them just means it will use the defaults.  All you have to do is to deselect "Automatic Routing" in the menu properties.  I do not see a preference for setting automatic routing off by default. Saving a menu as file and importing it does not keep the autorouting off. Many users do not want autorouting, so it would be a nice preference. I went the other direction: I used the preference settings so that autorouting worked the way I want it to.

                          • 10. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                            Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                            Bill, I'm not entirely sure whether you are saying something about button numbering and layer position after a menu has been added and the layer order is then changed.

                             

                            What I am finding is that Encore uses the layer position to set button numbers upon adding the menu to the project, but it does not change the button number if the layers are changed through Edit in Photoshop.  It does change if you use the duplicate command to duplicate a menu in which the layers were changed.

                             

                            I do find this very confusing.  There is the Button Number (which Encore assigns upon adding the menu, but the user can change), the button name, and the button text. There is also the position of the button on the screen, which can be moved in Encore or Photoshop, independent of layer order, button number, button name, or button text.

                            • 11. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                              Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                              Stanley,

                               

                              Let me check this out. I always do my Menu editing before Import, so might have missed something, just becasue of my workflow.

                               

                              Back in a few... though it IS Wine-thirty here, so check my "math," when I get back.

                               

                              Hunt

                               

                              [Edit] Stanley, you are correct. The Button Layer Set stacking order, at Import, establishes the Button Number in Encore. I moved the stacking order of my four "scene" Buttons in reverse order, but their Button Numbers stayed the same, as they were at Import.

                               

                              If one makes the changes in the before Import, then they can alter the Button Number assingment.

                               

                              Just learned something here!

                               

                              Appreciated,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                                TonyBdfx Community Member

                                Thank Bill !   PS: My only issue is with the Button Routing number, not any labeling of the button.

                                 

                                So I will test this out myself like you did and order the layers as you did, then go back and forth between Photoshop and Encore. Then I'll shuffle the layer, save, and go back and forth and see if I can deliberately see the Button Routing numbers change relative to the layer stacking order in Photoshop. If this works like it should, then when I shuffle the order of the layers (thereby messing up the Routing), I should then be able to easily stack the layers so Encore will keep the button Routing Numbers ON each button all the time.

                                 

                                Sound like a plan. I have a feeling this is right. Now, if we can only get Adobe to include this in their manuals!

                                • 13. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                                  TonyBdfx Community Member

                                  Bill, can you break this down for me. I don't know why, but I'm a bit lost in this reply you wrote to Stan and I wanted to get it right:

                                   

                                  "The Button Layer Set stacking order, at Import, establishes the  Button Number in Encore. I moved the stacking order of my four "scene"  Buttons in reverse order, but their Button Numbers stayed the same, as  they were at Import.

                                   

                                  If one makes the changes in the before Import, then they can alter the Button Number assingment."

                                   

                                  When you said "button number" (or routing number) stayed the same (ie, Lesson 1 was Routing number 1 no matter where it was moved in stacking order of layer), did you mean as you shuffled the layers around (edit in Photoshop after Import) and the buttons kept their original routing numbers when you Saved and when back to Encore OR did you mean that the routing numbers stayed in thier position (ie, top/left button stayed Routing button 1) no matter what button was moved there?

                                  • 14. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                                    Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                    If one makes the changes in the before Import, then they can alter the Button Number assingment."

                                     

                                    In four testss, this has held 100% true. I altered the Button Layer Set order in PS, prior to Import, and got that altered order, after Import into En.

                                     

                                    Because this is how I have always done it, I made an assumption, but Stanley kindly corrected me on my assertion. [Nice move Stanley, as it keeps me both honest and humble!]

                                     

                                    If one wished to change what En sees as the Button Number (not the Button Name, or Button Text, but the Button Number), before Import, they could alter the stacking order of the Button Layer Sets. The lowest, on the Layers Palette order, will be given Button 1, and ascend the order, for all Buttons, in Encore.

                                     

                                    As I found out, this is ONLY before Import. After Import, if one does Edit in Photoshop, and they then alter the stacking order, the Button Numbers did not change for me, regardless of what the new order.

                                     

                                    Now, I would not think of a lot of uses for the assignment of the En Button Numbers being altered (before Import), but suppose that there could be some.

                                     

                                    As I often start from nearly scratch with my Menus in PS, prior to Import, I always arrange things, in what I feel is a logical order.

                                     

                                    Now, there is one little caveat, and one that I have not tested directly, but if one adds a bunch of Library Buttons, in Encore, the order will be set by the order that one adds those Library Buttons. As the Menu WILL have been Imported, there is only one way, that I can think of, to alter the Button Number - Edit in Photoshop, alter the stacking order, as desired, BUT do a Save_As, and NOT a Save. Then, go back to En, Delete the originally designed Menu from the Project, and navigate to where one did the Save_As, and Import THAT Menu into the En Project. It appears that once the Import has been done, the Button Numbers stick, regardless of what one later does in PS.

                                     

                                    Hope that helps,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                                      Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                      Nice testing! And thanks for the report.

                                       

                                      I don't recall if I reported this before. Another way to use the stacking order appeared to be the following. Edit in photoshop (a menu that is obviously already in the project). That menu won't change. If you "duplicate" that menu, I think my results were that it does change.

                                      • 16. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                                        Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                        Stanley,

                                         

                                        Had not thought about Duplicate Menu.

                                         

                                        Seems that there is an older thread, where Jim Simon was having difficulty getting custom Button Routing to "stick" with Duplicate Menu. What I do not recall was whether he had changed the stacking order of the Button Layer Sets, or if this was just in the Button Routhing in the Menu Editing Panel. Just been too long to recall the particulars in that thread.

                                         

                                        If I get a moment, I will see what happens with Duplicate Menu, and how it affects the Button Numbers, if at all.

                                         

                                        Thanks for the tip above, and I will try to remember that!

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 17. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                                          TonyBdfx Community Member

                                          Bill, I read all replies. Let me see IF I have this correct and clear:

                                           

                                          1) If one creates a Menu from scatch in Photoshop and THEN imports into Encore, the layer order of buttons will be assigned routing numbers automatically by Encore that first time (ie, Lowest layer is #1, Next up from the bottom is #1, etc). So it then would be a GOOD habit to check the Layer order FIRST before Save?

                                          2) Then, if you UNcheck "Automatically Route Buttons" and then "Edit in Photoshop", make changes including re-ordering the buttons in the Layer panel, the button order will NOT change?   So, if you have Chapter 1 as button 1, Chapter 2 as button 2 and flip their Layer orders, upon returning from photoshop, if you wanted Chapter 2 to to be #1, you would have to manually change Chapter 2 to button 1 in the Properties panel since Chapter 1 was originally button 1 but the flip-floping of the two chapters in photoshop cause Encore to screw with the numbers?

                                           

                                          3) To "keep the peace" and prevent Encore from messing around wit button routing after editing in Photoshop (moving button layers around/shuffling), then one would simply have to "Save AS" and NOT "Save" so Encore doen't force a button routing re-oder and WILL instead make Button routing as per the layer order. Yes?

                                           

                                          If # 3 is correct, then if I ever DO shuffle/re-order my button layers (remembering the numbering system 1 at bottom, then 2, ), I would have to perforom #3 if I do indeed want my NEW button layer order to be numbered 1, 2, 3 ?

                                           

                                          BOTTOM LINE: If I shuffle/re-order button in editing and decided one button must be #1 and another to be #2, etc, then I MUST be mindful BEFORE saving and check the Layer stacking order and make any appropriate shuffles. That fixes it?

                                          • 18. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                                            Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                            1) If one creates a Menu from scatch in Photoshop and THEN imports into Encore, the layer order of buttons will be assigned routing numbers automatically by Encore that first time (ie, Lowest layer is #1, Next up from the bottom is #1, etc). So it then would be a GOOD habit to check the Layer order FIRST before Save?

                                             

                                            This can be from scratch, or one can Edit in Photoshop, a Library Menu too. Then, if one Imports the created, or edited Menu, the Button Numbers will be based on the stacking order. The Routing of those Buttons can either be done automatically by Encore, or can be done manually by the author. After the Import, the Button Numbers (the Numbers that appear in the "crosses" will be set, but obviously when set to Manually Route Buttons, the author has control to change the destination - the Numbers out on the arms of those "crosses" for the directions that one can navigate.

                                             

                                            2) Then, if you UNcheck "Automatically Route Buttons" and then "Edit in Photoshop", make changes including re-ordering the buttons in the Layer panel, the button order will NOT change?   So, if you have Chapter 1 as button 1, Chapter 2 as button 2 and flip their Layer orders, upon returning from photoshop, if you wanted Chapter 2 to to be #1, you would have to manually change Chapter 2 to button 1 in the Properties panel since Chapter 1 was originally button 1 but the flip-floping of the two chapters in photoshop cause Encore to screw with the numbers?

                                             

                                            You are not "reordering" the Buttons with Manually Route Buttons, but only altering the destination, depending on the direction that the user navigates. So, Button 1, cannot be changed to any other Number, but can alter what happens (which Button one will see as the destination) when one navigates up, down, left or right. That destination is what can be changed, when one has selected Manually Route Buttons.

                                             

                                            3) To "keep the peace" and prevent Encore from messing around wit button routing after editing in Photoshop (moving button layers around/shuffling), then one would simply have to "Save AS" and NOT "Save" so Encore doen't force a button routing re-oder and WILL instead make Button routing as per the layer order. Yes?

                                             

                                            This would be done at the creation stage, to give you a new, edited Library Menu, with the edited Button Layer Set stacking order.

                                             

                                            If you have Imported a Menu into En, and then choose Edit in Photoshop, you WILL want to do a Save (and NOT a Save_As). What happens with Edit in Photoshop is that a TMP PSD file is generated, Photoshop is launched, and links between Encore and Photoshop are transparently created. Finally, that TMP PSD is Opened in Photoshop. [Check the PSD's name, and you will see that it is not the exact name of your Menu.] Because of those links, to have your edits apply to that Imported Menu, you MUST use Save. If you use Save_As, or Save_As_a_Copy, you will NOT be following the link back to Encore to update your Imported Menu. One would ONLY use the Save_As, when they wish to create a totally new Menu, and not to update the Imported Menu.

                                             

                                            If # 3 is correct, then if I ever DO shuffle/re-order my button layers (remembering the numbering system 1 at bottom, then 2, ), I would have to perforom #3 if I do indeed want my NEW button layer order to be numbered 1, 2, 3 ?

                                             

                                            This depends on what you are starting with, and what you wish to do.

                                             

                                            Let's say that you wish to start off with one of the Library Menus (we'll pick the Corporate>NTSC_Bar Chart Menu.PSD here), and wish to permanently re-arrange the stacking order of the Buttons in that Library Menu (remember, if you have Imported it already, these changes will not take effect, until you later Import it again, or into a new Project), you would launch PS, Open that Library PSD, edit it to suit, and then Save, overwriting the original Library Menu with the new one. If you wanted to alter the stacking order, but NOT overwrite the original Library Menu, you would do a Save_As, to say, "Corporate>NTSC_Bar Chart_Altered.PSD." The choice is yours - Save to overwrite that original Library Menu (not something that I recommend), or Save_As to create a new, edited version of that Library Menu.

                                             

                                            BOTTOM LINE: If I shuffle/re-order button in editing and decided one button must be #1 and another to be #2, etc, then I MUST be mindful BEFORE saving and check the Layer stacking order and make any appropriate shuffles. That fixes it?

                                             

                                            Yes, if you felt the need to re-order the Button Numbers (remember, those are JUST the Numbers in the middle of the "crosses," though they are what Encore uses when Automatically Route Buttons is ON, then you would do that in PS. As for what you do next, see above.

                                             

                                            Hope that helps,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                                              zeblis

                                              Experienceing same issue in CS6.  I know this is an old thread, but I may have came accross a workaround for anyone stumbling accross this post after Encore is dead and buried.

                                               

                                              1. In Encore, Save project as(new project and different name?)

                                              2. Edit your menu in PS.

                                              3. Correct the Layer sequence the way you want them to appear.  Lowest numbers at the bottom.

                                              4. Save As -> pick and name and location you can find.

                                              5. Go back to Encore, reimport the newly created psd file as a new menu.

                                              6. Remap your menu actions.

                                              7. Save changes.

                                               

                                              The "Automatic Route Buttons" option should be checked, and buttons should stay the way you wanted.

                                               

                                              I tried this, and even after I close and reopen, the menu button number and sequence stay the same. 

                                               

                                              For my situation, my menus probably got corrupted when I was playing around with motion menu, pop-up menu etc.  I was learning the program, and kept going back and forth on these options.  I also tried to save time by duplicating menu from the Project list. Not sure if I violated any best practices.

                                               

                                              Good luck to everyone on your work with this dying artform.

                                              • 20. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                                                Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                                Glad you found a way that works.

                                                 

                                                No time to test at present, but, particularly when using automatic button routing, I believe the button layers/numbers are secondary to the location of the buttons on the menu. Encore sees the menu as columns and rows, and does not deal with buttons out of order nor creative distributions of buttons. Just something to keep in mind.

                                                • 21. Re: Button numbers re-route automatically against my will !
                                                  zeblis Community Member

                                                  Thanks for the feedback Stan,

                                                   

                                                  I should clarify that "Automatic Button routing" was checked when I re-imported my menus.(was not my intention, and I later turned that off) 

                                                   

                                                  I could be wrong, but if auto button routing uses location for numbering, I suspect that may only be the case for the initial location when the button was created.  Since moving the buttons around on the screen didn't change the button numbering or routing.

                                                   

                                                  My situation may be unique, since my install of or Adobe CSM,(company package), did not come with menu templates I could use, I had to create menu's from scratch.  As I went I also added more buttons.  Perhaps this learning process resulted in my button numbering not being what I wanted.

                                                   

                                                  Another best practices, in the future I will make sure menu's are perfect in PS before importing back into Encore.  A lot of back and forth was better for me to learn encore, but I'm confident it contributed to my issues.