That is my thinking too, or a quick and easy patch should have been forthcoming. However, I have not heard any reports from Adobe's development team to support that theory, though that would not be unusual. [Maybe Adobe can comment?] Fixing a bunch of PSD's would be easy for Adobe. No patch, seems to indicate coding in the program itself, as you (and I) speculate, is the issue.
When one really thinks about the authoring aspects of PrE, and the semi-auto linking and Menu generation with Buttons being removed, where not needed, it's an involved process. It's much more involved, than authoring with Encore, as the user does almost everything by hand. I'd guess that some "wires" got crossed in the code for PrE 9, and the engineers are busy trying to "uncross" them. [Total speculation on my part.]
When your testing and reports are published, please add the link to this thread.
Thank you for all the work that you have done on this issue. At some point, and in some way, others will benefit from your efforts.
Gary - last questions. I just downloaded the suite as a trial, and of
course I cannot access Encore which is the feature I wanted to evaluate to
make sure the DVD menus didn't have the same or similar bug. In the CS5.5
suite, are there predefiined DVD menus? Do they work? No problem with
replacing background images, as with PRE9? Is the Arts in Motion template
Thanks again for your time and assistance.
Things changed dramatically with the trial for CS5.5. Adobe no longer restricts the use of certain licensed CODEC's, one of which was MPEG-2. It was my understanding that this change applied to ALL programs in the suites, but might have misunderstood (that HAS happened before). Are you sure that you cannot access Encore in the trial? That was NOT possible, until CS5.5 was released.
As for the Library Menus in Encore, they are similar, but quite different. Each Main Menu and each Scene Selection Menu is separate. There are no Menu Sets, per se, though from a design and stylistic point, they can certainly be used as a "set." As Encore does nothing, related to the use of Menus, in a semi-automatic way, there will be no issues. The user must choose, or Import, each Menu and then do the Linking by hand. If one needs a Main, and then 3 Scene Selection Menus, they must Import the Main, and then the 3, manually adjusting them, as is necessary. An example of this adjustment would be: removing the Previous Button from SS Menu 01, and then the Next Button from SS Menu 03, as per my example above.
In general, the Library Assets are almost identical to those from EncoreDVD 2.0. There have been more added, plus the BD Menus, as EncoreDVD 2.0 did not do BD, but otherwise, they are the same - just a bunch of PSD's. Now, some are presented as EM files, and that is just a wrapper for the PSD, and Motion Assts (either Audio, or Video or both). Because of the manual nature of Encore, the PSD's are a lot more simple, than the Menu Sets in PrE.
Good luck, and please update this thread, if Encore is NOT available in the CS5.5 trial. That will correct my understanding of the CS5.5 trial.
Not being able to access Encore is the least of my problems now. Installing
the trial version of CS5.5 just ruined my life. I discovered I could no
longer burn DVDs out of PRE 9. They all burned within 2 minutes but were
blank. I uninstalled CS5.5 suite and now when I try to load a .prel file, I
get the message that the project is not compatible with my current version
of Premiere Elements. Good God. I am well and truly screwed. Months of
work I cannot access.
I don't know what to do at this point.
I'm not sure that I was clear in my previous post, as I was a bit bug eyed and frantic, having just lost access to all of my projects for the last two months.
Encore is NOT accessible out of the trial version of Production Pro CS5.5. You are blocked and have to buy the program. After installing the CS5.5 suite, I started up PRE 9, which I expected would function normally. I was completely unable to burn a DVD. The program would show the project being encoded within 30 seconds and the DVD burned within 1 minute. The DVD was blank. I tried changing settings, deleting rendered files & rendering anew, lighting incense. Same result. Now I have 6 DVD coasters. I uninstalled the CS5.5 suite and things got worse. When I tried to load projects into PRE 9, any project I worked on during the past month would not load. I got a message that the project was incompatible with the current version of Premiere Elements. I had only imported one project into CS5.5, and when I did there was a message that the original project file would not be altered.
I then uninstalled PRE 9, and reinstalled it and all content. I updated to 9.0.1. Thank God I am now back to just dealing with PRE 9's bugs. I can load my projects. The images that get loaded as background in a DVD menu disappear when a DVD is burned, or when any portion of the project is rendered.
So, this should be a caution to someone intending to try out CS5.5 while keeping Premiere Elements 9.0.
Interesting. Do you mean an empty WAV file? I tried using my own WAV file
rather than the default one. I also tried reducing the duration of the WAV
file to 00:00:01 (because it was too loud and I cannot find a way to reduce
the volume of background music - I'll look for a master volume meter). That
did not help. What did help was that I eventually tried changing the DVD
menu from widescreen to normal format. That caused the menus to be
recompiled. Even though my image was not appearing in the picture frame on
the Art in Motion menu (the main page) in the editor, it was in the
properties panel. Lo and behold, not only was my image in the frame, but
the white rectangular "action" buttons/indicators (showing which item was
selected) were now lined up correctly, not overlapping text. Then, when I
had burned a DVD, the image showed up in the frame in the editor. A
reversal of the usual bug. So, a combination of probably the correct menu
aspect setting with an audio file in what you are calling the "placeholder"
set a 00:00:01 duration seems to have solved my problem. Don't know if this
will have any application to menus where someone is trying to use an image
as the background for the entire menu.
Robert J Johnston
I am in the process of writing up my latest findings on Premiere 9 Menu Background and other Premiere Elements issues related to these menus for DVD and Blu-ray and had intended to post them some time over the extended holiday weekend. But your post has motivated me to respond to your question sooner than later in an abridged sort of way, giving you and others a preview of where I am currently going on this..
As per one of my earlier posts in this thread (post #10)
General/Fun, "This problem does not occur for main menu, but background replacement GONE for scene menu."
General/Aquarium, "Background replacement GONE for both main and scene menu after burn to disc."
With the Fun Scene Menu...The Fun Template, as designed by Adobe, comes with Main Menu audio and no Scene Menu audio. That is done via naming the one music file in the program files/theme folder Fun_mm_bg.mp3. If you wanted Scene Menu audio as well at this program files level, you could include in the Theme Folder a copy of the supplied audio, but name the copy Fun_sm_bg.mp3. However, for the problem in discussion you do not have to involve going into the program files to do that.
If you insert any audio file (.mp3 or .wav) for the Scene Menu in the Disc Menu Section of the program, you will see your replacement background in the playback of the DVD-VIDEO format on DVD disc. If you do not really want music for the scene menu but you do want to see the replacement background in your final product, then you can create a "Stock Muted Audio" .wav file to access and use from the Disc Menu section of the program. (Audacity is a quick tool for creating the "Stock Muted Audio" for this purpose. Digressing, there you could also lower the gain if you think that your menu volume is too loud.")
Now with regard to the Aquarium Main and Scene Menus..There is no music file at all in the Theme Folder in the program files.
So, if you insert any audio (.mp3 or .wav) with sound or muted into the main menu or scene menu in the Disc Menus section of the program, your replacement backgrounds will be seen in the playback of the DVD-VIDEO format on the DVD disc.
I caught onto all this while I was recently looking at comparison of Premiere Elements 4, 7, 8.0/8.0.1, and 9/9.0.1 with regard to quality in the burn to Blu-ray for my new Blu-ray equipment. Originally, this comparison was done for Quality purposes, not directed at the menus replacement background issue. What I ran into in the final Blu-ray product at its playback was main menu play button working, great quality video, but clicking on the scene button did nothing, often froze the player. After extensive checks and cross checks, the answer was to add an audio file to the scene menu!!!! This situation existed for some menus but not all. A list of the dos and don'ts will be supplied at a later time. The menu that started all this was the Wedding/Romantic one that was included in versions 4, 7, 8.0/8.0.1, but NOT 9/9.0.1.
For those who would inject computer OS/video card or other factors into this mix, I add that my findings were repeatable from November 2011 until today May 29, 2011 and repeatable using Windows XP Professional SP3 32 bit (NVIDIA) or Windows 7 Professional SP1 64 bit (Intel HD Graphics). And, the resolution of the files used for the replacement background was NOT at the core of this matter which has all the ring of an Adobe programming matter. In the studies with the Wedding/Romantic theme and other of these matters, the prognosis for the burn to disc typically could be learned ahead of time by seeing the burn to startup as Encoding Menu 1 of 1 instead of Encoding Menu 1 of 2.
So far here I have not mentioned any involvement of the project preset which directs the program to establish what it considers an appropriate choice from the s, w, and hd sets in the program files. Often you see projects with HD project presets using s menu set rather than the w menus. But that is a whole other story.
To attenuate the Volume of an Audio Motion Asset (the WAV in your case), you need to do that in either PrE, or in an audio editing program, like Audacity. This ARTICLE will give you some tips on doing so. In the authoring part of PrE, and also in Encore, there is no facility to edit Audio, or Video.
I have found this Adobe KB Article, which clears up the issue on Encore in the Trial. It is NOT available in the trial. It will be installed, but not available, until one upgrades the trial to the full-paid version. The 30-day, money-back guarantee is still available, so if one BUYS Production Premium, they have the full power of the suite for 30-days, and can then return it, if not satisfied, for their money back.
I do not know why Encore is not activated in the trial, as the previous restrictions on MPEG-2 have been lifted for PrPro. As the MPEG-2 limitation was because of licensing issues with MainConcept, but have been negotiated out, I can only assume that there is still a licensing issue with Sonic, the license holder of the AuthorCore modules in Encore. Now, those are essentially the same Sonic AuthorCore modules (just fewer of them), as are found in PrE, and its trail works, but just with a watermark. Curious?
One quick question, regarding an Audio Motion Asset in a Menu, please:
IIRC, PrE has a Duration limit, and I think that it is 30 sec.. Can you refresh my feeble memory on that? [I use Encore, which has not real Duration limit, but obviously the DVD-spec's. limit of ~ 1 GB for all Menus and their Assets, will still be in play.] If that is the limit, then I would suggest your method of placing a "silent" Audio file, with that Duration length. That would match the Loop point of the Menu. If the Duration limit is other, say 20 sec., then that would be the ideal.
Thank you for taking the time, first to do the testing, then next reporting on the testing, and finally letting me know about the PrE Duration limit on a Menu.
Good luck, and happy testing. We will all be looking forward to your full and final results. Appreciated.
The Premiere Elements 9 Art-in-Motion Theme it not impacted by the replacement background issue discussed in this thread. Please refer to my post (#10) in this thread....Entertainment/Art-in-Motion "This problem does not occur for main and scene menu." I have found this to be true from November 2010 to the present day May 29, 2011 with two different operating systems/video display cards. And, you do not have to go to another project preset.
I suspect that in all your changes in the Disc Menus Section of the program, that the program got confused and needed a reset (by hitting AutoPlay and re-applying the Art-in-Motion choice). Your attempt to "lower" the audio of the menus may have been at the core for the need for reset. Or, maybe it was your adjusts of the image in the insert to fit the cut out in the main menu. Was the image used 4:3 or 16:9 and what resolution?
If you have your wanted end product at this point, fine. But, if not or for future reference, please start a new project which reflects the properties of your source media and then look at use of Art-in-Motion and 4:3 image for insert about 1000 x 750 pixels (if that is in accord with your project preset). As for lowering the menu audio, looked into creating a stock lowered audio with Audacity as I have suggested in my prior thread here and to which Hunt has added Audacity comments..
I have the sense of deja vu with your post. If so, we will be watching for your progress here and elsewhere.
I hope that the following targets your question.
Yes, for Premiere Elements 9 and other versions, at least back to version 4, the max. duration for video/audio inserts into the menus within the program at the Disk Menu/Create Menus level is 30 sec with looping. In all this time, I have not seen any way of increasing the max duration beyond 30 sec and stopping the looping at any duration.
With regard to the Premiere Elements 9 Fun Scene Menu and audio application to the scene menu.at the Disc Menus level within the program.....
I have found that be it 20 sec audio, 30 sec audio, 3 minute audio (full originally recorded volume, lowered volume, or muted volume), the result is the same with regard to maintaining the replacement background in the scene menu after burn to disc DVD-VIDEO format on DVD disc. The replacement background is maintained in the scene menu in the burn to end product.
With regard to the Premiere Elements 9 Aquarium Main Menu and Scene Menu and application of audio to both at the Disc Menus level within the program...
I have found that be it 20 sec audio, 30 sec audio, 3 minute audio (full originally recorded volume, lowered volume, or muted volume), the result is the same with regard to maintaining the replacement background in the main menu and the scene menu after burn to disc DVD-VIDEO format on DVD disc. The replacement background is maintained in both in the burn to end product.
I did want to place at least two more factors into this complex equation at this point for others to be thinking about.
(1) I have had the same results with regard to this issue if the Premiere Elements 9 burn to was burn to Blu-ray as well as burn to DVD. And, I suspect that the core issue (programming or other) goes back further than Premiere Elements 9 (maybe with a bit of a subtle twist with different manifestations, as evidenced with my problems with the Premiere Elements 8.0/8.0.1, 7, and 4 DVD Menu/Wedding/Romantic which was not included in version 9.
(2) Representative of the Aquarium Menus, if you use an .avi video source (video ONLY or video with audio linked to it) instead of a still image, the loss of the replacement backgrounds with burn to process DOES NOT EXIST.
Thanks very much again. I'm not certain why the image in the Art in Motion
menu kept disappearing. The symptoms matched exactly with what you
described. I have not yet attempted to reduce the volume of the background
music. (I do have the Nero 9 suite, which has a good audio editor I've used
before. I kept thinking there was just some feature hidden within PRE 9
that I could use.) It's possible that dragging the image into the frame
rather than selecting the image in of the properties window creates a
conflict, even thought it is supposed to work. Selecting "wide screen NTSC"
may have contributed by creating a mismatch between the size of the window
in which the "background" image appears and the image, also throwing off the
placement of the action buttons. Don't know. The disaster with CS5.5
caused me to uninstall PRE 9 and reinstall it. Clearing the decks, clearing
the pref file(s) may have been good. I know that the problem went away
after the Art in Motion menus were newly rendered. BTW - just resetting the
image and/or the audio, and even selecting a different menu and then going
back to Art in Motion did not force those menus to be rendered anew. Only
reinstalling the program an changing the aspect of the output did that.
I've opened a case with Adobe concerning the CS5.5 disaster. I thought my
recent PRE 9 projects were trashed. Took me over 4 hours to test and
recover and get PRE 9 back up. It's really inexcusable that the program
interfered with PRE 9 to the point that I could not burn a DVD at all. Then
when I uninstalled the CS5.5 suite, I found that I could not load any
project on which I had worked over the past 3 months - kept getting the
message that the project was incompatible with the current versionn of
Premiere. Any thoughts on what might have caused those problems? Corrupted
or altered prefs file? It was not the extensions. I made sure that the
projects had the .prel extension - had not been changed. I'll let you know
what Adobe says.
Thanks again to you and Hunt and everyone else who takes so much time to
analyze these problems and then report in detail on these forums. I fear my
contribution may be as a lab rat - testing the capabilities of the program,
getting zapped and reporting on problems and what does and does not work to
I wish that I could be of more help, regarding the issues with the Trial of Production Studio. At least I learned something about Encore in the trial (or lack of Encore in the trial). I have posted to the Encore forum, and hope that an Adobe rep. can answer my question.
Now, I have never used a trial of any Adobe program, so there might be some things there, that are just beyond my knowledge. I have only encountered one issue, when installing PrE 4.0 and having the CS2 Production Studio installed first. Apparently, Adobe never considerred that a user might have CS2 installed, and then install PrE. Regardless, the fix was easy and quick, and in no other way affected my system. That, however, was NOT a trial, and was with much older verisons of both PrE and then all of the Adobe programs in Production Studio. Because of the age of the programs, I cannot see how my experiences would apply to PrE 9 and CS5.5 Production Premium - just too many years, and too many versions ago.
Good luck, and I am hoping that both you, and ATR, can get much of this sorted out. Wish that I was set up to help test, but I'm still waiting on my new laptop to install my CS5.5 MC. I will be upgrading to PrE 9 (or maybe 10, depending on the timing), but probably not until I have CS5.5 working perfectly.
Here is my take on your situation:
1. If your source media for your project is 4:3, then set the project preset to match the properties of the source media. The project preset directs the program to set up the appropriate template (space) in the Edit Mode Monitor for the purposes of editing that source media. The project preset also instructs the program as to what set of DVD menu .psd files to use for the project. If all that is so, then your project preset should be NTSC (PAL depending on location) DV Standard. And, the menu set "should" be the "s" ones for standard 4:3 video. So in Disc Menus sectio, if you use "Video or Still" Browse for the menu and bring in a 16:9 Still background, it is not going to fit right. For best results, use a 4:3 still (if your image is 16:9, then try to crop it to 4:3 1000 x 750 pixels). All sorts of unwanted happenings can occur when you try to get (force) that 16:9 to look right in the 4:3 environment.
2. You asked about a hidden feature in Premiere Elements 9 as regard to audio editing. For what you want to do, DVD menu audio volume lowering, the feature for doing that in Premiere Elements 9 is alive and there. Audacity is an official audio editor that is free and easy to use and is often recommended for more intensive audio editing than just volume change. Here goes what I want you to look at in Premiere Elements before you make up your mind about Premiere Elements vs Audacity for lowering the volume of your loud DVD menu audio.
a. Go the Premiere Elements 9 program files, Local Hard Drive/Program Files/Adobe/Premiere Elements 9, DVD Templates/Common/Entertainment/Art-in-Motion theme folder. Copy the ArtisticThemeMenu_bg_audio.mp3 file in the Art-in-Motion theme folder and paste it to your computer Desktop.
b. In Premiere Elements 9, import that .mp3 from the Desktop into the project with the program's Get Media/Files & Folders. Drag the .mp3 to the Timeline. On the Timeline, lower the volume of the clip using Properties Palette/Volume Panel or the Audio Mixer.
c. Then export that file via Share/Computer/Audio with the preset of MP3 - High Quality and use that export when you are in the Disc Menus section of your project with the Art-in-Motion menus Audio Browse (for each of main and scene menu).If necessary, I can give you some added detail on how to do that in the project that you are in as well as in a new and separate project for the volume lowering task.
Do not be discouraged. I think that the good news is that I do not think your issue is part of this "missing replacement background" syndrome. As for the others, the news is "better" with the prospects of using the "muted" audio/audio fix without having to go into the menu .psd files and do modifications at that level.
ATR - thanks again. I suspect the aspect ratio, and possibly the size of
my images (remember my penchant for large files) played a part. I've
matched the aspect ratio better, and the main menu and scene menus are
working. As for the hidden volume control for the background music, I meant
something within PRE 9 comparable to the easy audio gain editing in the
timeline. I've already used the Nero audio editor to reduce the volume of
the "Artistic Theme Menu_bg_audio.mp3" by half, which turns out to be 14 db.
For some reason it was really loud, and I'm more than half deaf (seriously).
I'm going by our usual volume settings on our TV to judge relative volume
levels. Of course, I had to change the read only attribute of the DVD
template folders and files to do that, but it was easy. I changed them back
after editing that one file. I can always increase the volume in the future
The closest that PrE can directly offer is to do a separate Project, just for the Motion Menu's Audio Asset (WAV file here). The alternative would be to either use a portion of the Audio from the Timeline, adjust that, and use the WAB (Work Area Bar) to Export/Share just that portion. One variation on that method would be add the Audio to the Timeline, at the end, adjust it, use the WAB to limit to just that Clip, and Export/Share as above. In the first case, the user would want to re-adjust any changes to the Clip on the Timeline, and in the latter, to Delete it, before doing the authoring, or there will likely be issues with Audio, without Video in that section of the Timeline, and also with that Audio appearing in the DVD. I feel that a program, like Audacity is a much easier way to handle things. I also suggest that whichever workflow one adopts, that they produce PCM/WAV files @ 48KHz 16-bit.
In PrPro, where one has the feature, Sequences, it's easy to do a separate Sequence in the Project, with just the Audio. Adjust the Volume there, and Export that to be used as the Audio for the Menu. This is my workflow, but Sequences are NOT part of PrE, so it becomes more convoluted, with redundant work, and possible pitfalls.
Hunt & ATR,
Your comments are always welcome and on point. Thanks again. I feel like I'm getting the benefit of your months and years of experience.
Thought you would be interested in Adobe's response to my ill fated attempt to try out CS5.5. When I opened a case, asking for help in figuring out why CS5.5 Production Pro trashed PRE 9, they stated that since I was able to reinstall PRE 9 and get it working, there was no issue so the case was withdrawn and closed without comment. I responded, asking if they understood that I was considering buying CS5.5, an expensive program, but would not buy it if it prevented me from using PRE 9. Nothing. The response was that the "trial" verson of CS5.5 was no longer supported and I should buy the full version! Un****ing believable. What are they smoking in those cubicles?
Wow, that is not any way to convince a potential buyer to acquire an Adobe program, especially one as expensive as PrPro CS5.5! I used to sing the praises of Adobe's C/S and T/S groups, but it seems that many things have changed, and very badly.
As soon as I get the new computer and have it set up, I will be installing CS5.5 MC, and will also upgrade my PrE to 9. I will be glad to report what I encounter, but it will still be about a month away, as I am in the final stages of spec'ing. the computer. That will probably be too late for you, but as you did have I problem, I will update this thread.
Sorry that I cannot be of more service to you right now, but good luck,
Hunt - thanks. Adobe has completely ignored my request for assistance in determining what went wrong. I opened two support cases. The closed them both without replying, except with nonsense. The second time the response was that CS5.5 was no longer being supported. What the &#*$???? Next they'll be quoting random passages from Naked Lunch to respond to support requests.
I had stated explicitly that I was considering buying the software, and needed to know if it would co-exist with PRE9, and that my experience with the trial version was a disaster. Adobe, if you are monitoring this forum, something is terribly, terribly wrong with both your customer support and sales.
On the issue of the PRE9 menu background images disappearing, I finally received a message that it was a known bug with no known solution, and had been referred to their engineers Bug number is 2837657, for whatever that's worth.
With regard to the disappearing replacement backgrounds for the Premiere Elements 9 DVD Templates, have you used the fix of adding audio or muted audio to the menus? That should do that job until the Adobe Engineers figure out the programming on that one.
Please let us know if that works for you. It should.
In this huge thread there was one easy solution I found that worked at least once. I missed it the last two times I waded through this stuff. I forget which template he tried this on, but it worked for me.
POSSIBLE WORKAROUND TO MAKE CUSTOM MENU BACKGROUNDS APPEAR ON FINAL PRODUCT:
INSERT 30 SECOND AUDIO CLIP IN BACKGROUND FOR MAIN MENU AND SCENE MENU
Every week I author a DVD of our weekend service at our church. I use the Generic One template copied over from PE8. I created a 30 second mp3 that was basically silent, inserted it into the main menu and scene menu. Then I used a 800x600 jpg as the main menu background and a black jpg for the scene menu background. And the background menu images didn't disappear when I burned the DVD. We'll see if it still works next week. This does not fix the problem, but it may be enough to get the job done for my purposes.
Important note: Earlier this year I edited a concert DVD for a local band, inserted audio into the main menu-no audio in the scene menu, and the background image still did NOT come through on the final product. I tried burning directly to disk as well as burning to folder but the results were the same.
It looks like this will be post 67 in this thread....good news to report...I have been working with Premiere Elements 10 and have looked at this Premiere Elements 9 Menu Background Replacement issue in version 10. The problem of Premiere Elements 9 in this regard appears to be gone. At this point, I have just taken a sampling of DVD Menus, worse cases where the replacement background for both main and scene menu were not present in the encoded DVD-VIDEO for the version 9 DVD menus of Ladybug Picnic, Aquarium, and Comicbook.
Premiere Elements 10's
Replacement backgrounds for main and scene menu now are present in the encoded DVD-VIDEO.
As you recall, as was pointed out early on my me and Robert Johnston, the version 9 situation "fix" was to add audio (muted or non muted) to the menu. Out of curiosity I checked the .psd files for these menus in version 10 to see if an audio file had been added. But, no. So, I suspect that the correction was made at a programming level. I still have not seen an Adobe patch for the version 9 matter. So, our audio fix remains the remedy for the version 9 matter.