6 Replies Latest reply on Jul 7, 2011 3:45 PM by TonyBrown4444

    how to achieve a roundtrip with Photoshop


      Is there a method to re-import a PS file in Captivate? The problem with existing roundtrip with PS is that it is limited to layers that exist in PS during import. So after importing PS file (either as Flattened Image or as Multi Layer) and making some adjustments to the original file, the adjustments are not reflected in Captivate after Updating from Source. I guess that re-importing the file would do the job, but there seems no way of doing it. This makes the "roundtrip" very limited. Sure I can delete the file from Captivate and import once again, but then all effects and time settings are lost and needs to be re-applied.


      [Edit] It seems that using Layer Comps *does* allow to make adjustments in PS and have them reflected in Captivate. So far it works for me, fingers crossed, hopefully it won't break sometime after making more adjustments. But still, importing without Layer Comps (only using Last State) is not working as expected.

        • 1. Re: how to achieve a roundtrip with Photoshop
          Lilybiri MVP & Adobe Community Professional

          Hi Tony,


          Now I'm a bit puzzled, because just this weekend I did a lot of roundtripping with Photoshop, in eLearning Suite 2.5. I used 'edit source file' from within Captivate and got the extra layers I added in PS.


          What was your exact work flow? Or perhaps you are not using the eLearning Suite, because or the full functionality of the roundtripping you need the suite.



          • 2. Re: how to achieve a roundtrip with Photoshop
            TonyBrown4444 Level 1

            First of all, good to hear that it's working for you. There is hope then. Maybe I just do something wrong. Here is what I do:


            1. Use eLearning suite 2.5 (the newest one)

            2. Create a PS file with one layer. No layer comps (it works ok with layer comps, so no point in testing it)

            3. In Captivate Insert->Image and choose the PS file, import as Flattened Image (it doesn't work importing as Layers, either)

            4. Add an adjustment layer in PS, like Hue/Saturation

            5. Save in PS

            6. In Captivate, right-click the file and Update from source. No change in hue - **roundtrip not working**.

            7. Save Captivate project, close everything, just in case.

            8. Open Captivate project and right-click the imported file and Edit PSD Source file.

            9. In Photoshop, see the file has the hue adjustment, as it should. Change something, only to be able to save.

            10. Save the PS file and return to Captivate - no change at all. **Roundtrip not working**.

            11. Eventually right-click in Captivate and Update from source. See a message saying that source is up to date.


            I just did all these steps once again. Why isn't it working?


            [Edit] I just discovered that it is not working correctly with layer comps, either. Working ok in some simple cases. But in a file where I added new layers, deleted some old ones etc, the new layers are not visible in Captivate. I'll re-import with layer comps but this time import as Layers and not Flatten Image and see what happens.


            [EDIT]     *** an idea ***


            Hmmmmm... Maybe I understand the roundtripping incorrectly. Here is an idea: after first importing as Flatten Image, there appears FlatImage1 item under filename.psd folder in Captivate. This item is on the slide. OK.


            Then, after adding a new layer in PS and Updating from source, there are additional items in filename.psd folder in Captivate, Layer3 and Layer4 (the new layers). Perhaps the "roundtripping" expects me to add those new layers to the slide ?? Is it the designed, correct way to do it? It works then, when I add new layers to the clide, but of course the layers act as new images, so coordinates, timing and effects are gone and must re-create the stacking order. I was expecting that the image already existing on the slide will get updated, so actually, that the FlatImage item will get updated as a snapshot of what is in PS file

            • 3. Re: how to achieve a roundtrip with Photoshop
              Lilybiri MVP & Adobe Community Professional



              An adjustment layer is not a 'normal' layer, I'm a big fan of adjustment layers, but those are not 'imageable' (I do not know if this is the correct word). Captivate is working with images (PNG), when you import a PSD-file with layers each layer will be converted to a PNG-image, and eventually the adjustment layer if you apply it will have its effect on the layer(s) to which you applied it.


              While I was sleeping, you did discover already things I wanted to explain, but was almost midnight when I read your post yesterday and felt too tired to answer.


              Mostly I will import the source file to the Library, almost never as flattened image, but importing the layers I want to use. If I'm using adjustment layers, in Photoshop I will create a merged layer from the layer(s) I want to have 'adjusted' and import that one, leaving the original layer with the adjustment layer in the original file for eventually later changes. Same for comps, I find it easier to to the editing work in PS and end up with normal layers to import to CP, that will be converted to PNG images.


              If I have used a layer a lot of times in the project, and I want to change that image everywhere without having to resize them...., I will not use Edit Source file, but edit the image itself. Be sure when adding adjustment layers to merge them all before saving and when returning to CP not only the image in the Library will be updated but all the images in the project.


              Like you, I would love to have an easy work flow to SWAP images all at once, to replace the image created on one layer in a PS-file by another layer (as an example) without having to restart the editing process. Little bit like the swap-functionality in Flash. But up till now I couldn't find it this is possible. I will re-introduce a feature request for this swapping functionality. Please, if you have time, could you do likewise?



              • 4. Re: how to achieve a roundtrip with Photoshop
                TonyBrown4444 Level 1

                Unfortunately, the solution with creating a merged layer on top of all other layers and importing it does not work for me, either (update: it works, read at the bottom in [Edit] section).


                1. Create a PS file with any number of layers.

                2. On top of those layers, create a merged layer (Ctrl+Shift+Alt+E). Name the layer "snapshot".

                3. Import the PS file into Captivate using Last state and Layers (importing as Flattened Image has slightly different issues). Check only the "snapshot" layer to be imported (checking other layers makes no difference)

                4. In PS, change something in the image.

                5. Delete the "snapshot" layer in PS and make a new snapshot (optionally, name it "snapshot", it makes no difference).

                6. Update from source in Captivate. The "snapshot" layer is deleted in CPT and a message pops up that it has been deleted. It means, it is deleted and you can import it once again as a completely new image (all settings are lost).


                It means that CPT uses not a layer name but some internal layer ID to identify what layer from PS was imported. Once that layer is deleted, there is no way to re-import it.


                So the trick will be to replace the content of existing "snapshot" layer in PS (containing the old snapshot) with the new snapshot after changes. Maybe there is a way to replace layer content in PS without deleting it which I don't know about (quite possible...). I tried to create a new snapshot, then select all, then click on old snapshot and paste. But it creates a new layer, it does not replace the content of the old layer. So it won't work. Or maybe you have a different workflow for the whole PS roundtrip.


                So far I discovered, that the only working "roundtrip" is to export to web and devices and then Update from source in CPT. But this can be achieved without learning suite, too, I gues the purpose of roundtripping was to ommit the export step.


                [Edit]I just discovered how to paste the new content into old layer (place it above and use Merge Layers) and it works!!! The layer gets updated in Captivate!!! But still, it's not a very straightforward solution, it's rather weird, and not much faster than simply save for web and devices.

                • 5. Re: how to achieve a roundtrip with Photoshop
                  Lilybiri MVP & Adobe Community Professional



                  Perhaps I'm not well explaining. Your problem is linked with adjustment layers, that will not appear in Captivate as layers (because each layer is converted to a PNG). That is the reason I suggested not to merge all layers but the layer with the adjustment layer that it needs to have.


                  Roundtripping with PSD works without any problem if you are changing normal layers. Just an example: for buttons I'm often working with PS-layers when I need to do localisation: I keep the Text separate form the layers with shapes. When I want to change a button I use Edit Source, and am able to change the color and the shape itself as well as the text... All will be changed when returning to CP.


                  As I told you I'm also using adjustment layers all the time, and moreover like to have all in one file, that is why I'm using the merging option instead of saving for Web&Devices that will create a separate file, with no link to the original PSD. Hope this is now a bit more explicit. You have to know the possibilities and limitations of all techniques.


                  • 6. Re: how to achieve a roundtrip with Photoshop
                    TonyBrown4444 Level 1

                    How exactly do you merge the layer with all its adjustments layers in PS? Just select them and Ctrl+E (and make a copy of the originals, to be able to edit) for every layer that has adjustments? If so, then it's quite a bit of work and it should be done programmatically by Captivate during Update from source: check if layer has adjustments and if yes - then import merged layer and all its adjustments that are visible.


                    About importing as Layers: CPT *is* able to see adjustments, because when you first import the image, it displays adjustment layers in the import panel. Only after it ignores them and does not apply changes to imported png or whatever they are. This I don't understand, why it subsequently ignores adjustments instead of re-applying them to the existing imported layers.


                    About importing as Flattened Image, what I would call a correct behaviour is that it should treat "Flatten Image" option as a flattened image of PS file, same as Bridge for example. Bridge displays a thumbnail in Preview pane, which is exactly a flattened image of a PS file. When you make a change to any layer, the change is reflected instantly in Bridge. That's what the meaning of flattened image is and that's why, I think this import option is simply broken. Captivate does not update the flatten image, instead it adds new images when new layers are added, which makes no sense. If someone imported as Flattened Image then he wants to have one image and not several images, which should also be up-to-date with adjustments. Same as in Bridge.


                    You mentioned a feature request for *swap* option as in Flash. This would also be very useful to have (I'll make a feature request) and this indeed would solve many problems here. Only that in this particular case, I would like to "swap" an image with itself, which is not true swapping, rather re-importing, or even ... just updating...