RH9 Bulleted Lists to Printed output in Word

[MPizanti]

Hi,

I am using RH9 and Word 2007 and once again I find myself very frustrated with the issues of bulleted lists in printed documentation.

I have read much of what is available here on this issue and I have also read 'Single Level Lists' from Peter Grainge.

As suggested I have defined both a list and a paragraph styles in RH so the code looks like this:

<ul type="disc">
<li class="BulletList1_List"><p class="BulletList1">View Source</p></li>

<li class="BulletList1_List"><p class="BulletList1">Edit template</p></li>
</ul>

I then want to map my paragraph style list 'BulletList1' to my defined bullet style in my MS Word template (Style Mapping.dot)

This if I understand correctly will not work, so I map it as suggested to the 'List' style as supplied in the template.

The output appears as follows:

·         View Source

·         Edit template

However, if I change the 'List' style in Word to have a different bullet then the 'List' style is no longer available for mapping and the output has the RH style but is displayed  as above.

The only solution I have found is that in the Word document I can select all text with the 'List' style (not modified) and then apply my defined bullet style.

Is this my only solution or have I missed something?

TIA

Morven

[Peter Grainge]

I assume you are followng the instructions in the section on Printed Documentation in http://www.grainge.org/pages/authoring/lists/lists_single_level.htm.

However, if I change the 'List' style in Word to have a different bullet then the 'List' style is no longer available for mapping and the output has the RH style but is displayed as above.

I can't follow this. You are saying that if you open in Word the template you use for mapping, it is then no longer displayed when you get to the mapping page in RoboHelp. That makes no sense as changing a style in Word does not affect whether it is there or not for RoboHelp to map to. It could affect appearance but not its presence.

The only solution I have found is that in the Word document I can select all text with the 'List' style (not modified) and then apply my defined bullet style.

So in effect you are making the changes to each document you produce.

Send me a one topic project with some lists in it plus some screenshots of what you want the lists to look like. I will also need your Word template.

---

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@petergrainge

[MPizanti]

Hi Peter,

I have sent you a sample project with one topic via cutesendit.

To clarify what I wrote below:

If I change the 'List' style in my template to have a different bullet and not the default black bullet then this style is no longer available for selection in RH.

In fact in the mapping screen there are no styles available for selection which are defined in the Word Template with a bullet.

I have detailed this in the document I sent to you along with the example project.

In answer to your question below - with the solution I found you are correct I would in fact be making the changes to each document I produce.

Many thanks

Morven

[Peter Grainge]

The CHM file has blue text where <p> is applied and blue bullets. In the printed document from RoboHelp anything with the <p> tag becomes Normal in Word and what I am seeing there is black for both text and lists. What you want is for RoboHelp to generate the document as shown in Document for Peter. Just want to check that is correct.

I'm thinking the fact that Normal in Word is not blue could be the problem and that is the first thing I will check once you have confirmed the above.

---

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@petergrainge

[MPizanti]

Hi Peter,

Yes it is correct - blue text for the chm and black for the printed.

I purposely changed the Normal style in the style mapping.dot file from color

'automatic' to 'black' - after reading about it on your site under Tables.

I know that you were writing about tables, but as I was having a problem with

Normal text (in Snippets) ignoring what I had defined for Normal - I decided to

try this - it worked.

However, if you think this might be the cause of other issues then I can change

it back again and try to work out why the snippet 'normal' is not behaving.

Regards

Morven

[Peter Grainge]

I haven't opened the project yet because before I do that I am trying to ascertain what is wrong with the result you are getting.

What I am seeing in the Suite_8_Introduction_Manual you generated in the project you sent is black and you are saying that is correct. The only difference between the CHM and that document is the indenting.

In Document for Peter you are showing blue. I thought that was supposed to illustrate what you want but you are saying black is correct.

Does that explain my confusion?

---

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@petergrainge

[MPizanti]

Hi Peter,

I am trying to achieve the result which you can see on page 4 of the document I

sent you - bullet marks in green.

However, the whole issue here is that on the mapping page in RH I do not see any

styles from the style mapping template if they have been defined with bullets.

I can map to 'list' - but if I change the definitions of list to another bullet

style then I can no longer map to 'list' as it is no longer listed - see page 5.

Thanks

[Peter Grainge]

Doh! I looked quickly at your document and saw a lot of white space below your CSS code on page 1. I mistakenly thought that was all that was in the document. Hence why we have been going back and forth as I was seeing the blue text on that page and thinking that was the example and that did not fit with what you were saying you wanted. I needed to know what you wanted while fixing the core problem.

When I came up with the solution on my site I was using Word 2010 so I will test on both 2007 and 2010 in case that makes a difference. Worst come to the worst, I think we could sort it out using a green bullet image.

I will take a look tomorrow.

---

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@petergrainge

[Peter Grainge]

I opened your project on a RoboHelp 9 Word 2007 machine and sure enough the List style does not appear for mapping. That was good in that it was consistent with your findings.

Then I opened a fresh copy of the project (unzipped it again) on a RoboHelp 9 Word 2010 machine and by using my CSS and Word template I was able to map but I didn't get the desired result. I'm pretty sure I know why that was so I thought a few changes would fix that. However, when I tried to reopen the project it just kept crashing and nothing I had done would account for that. Only when I got to the level of having to open the project with the HHP file could I open it again. That caused other issues so I unzipped a fresh copy of your project and it just crashes first time. All other projects I have tested open fine on the same machine.

For that reason I am a bit stumped at the moment as it is in exactly the state you sent it and that has opened on the same machine. It's a holiday here today and I am going out shortly. I may be able to try again later but if not or if I make no further progress, I will try again tomorrow on another machine. I really don't think there is anything wrong with what you sent me but neither is there anything wrong with the RoboHelp installation. Weird.

Sorry but you will have to bear with me for a day or two. As much as fixing the problem for you, I want to reprove the mapping method and establish if it is Word 2007 and Word 2010 compatible or Word 2010 only.

---

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@petergrainge

[Peter Grainge]

I have cracked the problem of mapping by working on my own test project. In RoboHelp I have blue bullets and text. Normal is set to blue and a paragraph class called ListMapping is in the CSS but has no nothing defined it. That way it looks the same as Normal. ListMapping is applied to bullet list items.

In Word is where you had gone wrong. You had amended the style List to have a green bullet. Look again at my instructions and not that they say to amend the style ListBullet. You map to List but you amend ListBullet. In my tests I used an image that I found when I changed the ListBullet style and clicked the Use Image option.

When I map ListMapping to List, on opening the Word document the bullet is blue and so is the text after the bullet whereas other Normal paragraphs in the document are black. Then you have to do what is in the instructions, find all instances of ListMapping and replace them with ListBullet. That corrects things. You will have the green bullet and black text.

I will send you the project where this works so that you can see it. This was set up on a RoboHelp 9 Word 2010 machine. I have yet to test it on the RoboHelp 9 Word 2007 machine but I really don't expect any difference. All you have to do is generate the printed document and then use Word to find all instances of ListMapping and replace them with ListBullet.

Now to the problem of not seeing List when you map. After seeing your template I fell into the trap of amending List at first. That didn't stop List appearing in the mapping so I am a bit lost on that at the moment. I am hoping you have a copy of your template before you made the changes and that if you use that to change the correct style (ListMapping), then List will appear. Let me know if not and I will poke around some more.

---

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@petergrainge

[Peter Grainge]

Whilst the method does also work on the demo project you sent me, there may be a showstopper.

In the text viewable when you open the topic, the method works as ordinary paragraphs have the style Normal and bullet lists have the style ListMapping. They are mapped separately so the method works.

When you generate printed documentation from topics that have dropdown text all the content in the dropdowns gets mapped as Drop-Down Text regardless of whether or not it is an ordinary paragraph or a bulleted list. You can run the find and replace on the body stuff but not it will not catch the dropdowns. Whilst you could have a second set of bullet styles, the fact that all dropdown content has one style would mean they would all become bulleted paragraphs.

All the problems with dropdowns come from needing a different colour bullet. If blue bullets were OK in the dropdown content in the printed document, there wouldn't be any problem. Or indeed, any colour as long as it is the same in both.

---

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@petergrainge

[Peter Grainge]

I've devised a fairly straightforward solution to fix the lists in dropdowns problem.

In the source topic preface each item in the list with something like ### and apply a build tag to it and the space before the text. I suggest the tag is called PrintOnly.

When you generate online help, use the Build Expression to exclude PrintOnly content.

For printed documentation first go back to the template and amend a second ListBullet2. Give it the same bullet as ListBullet but also apply the italic font. That has to be done once only.

When you generate the printed document you will do another search and replace. This time you search for ### with the style Dropdown Text applied, the replace will be ListBullet2. That will give you the bullet image but retain the italic formatting.

I haven't tested it but I'm pretty sure it will work.

---

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@petergrainge

[MPizanti]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for all this. I will apply what you suggest to my project and let you know how I get on.

We have a software release on Monday so I have to leave my printed doc issues until after that.

Thanks

Morven

[Peter Grainge]

Thanks for letting me know. Make sure you download the project I sent you as that will not be available next week. Then put it all to one side and let me know how you get on. I'm sure we can get it working.

---

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@petergrainge

[MPizanti]

Well the release has gone out and so I am back to printed documentation.

The bulleted lists are now working fine - amending ListBullet and not List corrected this issue.

The solution for the drop-downs also seems to work - now I just have to see how many instances of this I have.

Peter - one thing you wrote that was not clear for me, was as follows:

"All the problems with dropdowns come from needing a different colour bullet. If blue bullets were OK in the dropdown content in the printed document, there wouldn't be any problem. Or indeed, any colour as long as it is the same in both."

In fact I only need one color of bullet regardless if it is in a drop-down or in the main text - is there a simple solution that I am missing here?

The issue of text in drop-downs being marked as Drop-Down text in Word is really problematic.

Some styles seem to 'appear' as intended - numbered lists where the text is marked as Normal Indent and List Continue -all appear correctly.

Tables, however, just seem to do there own thing!

Tables which come form the main text are displayed in the printed documentation formatted as expected, tables in drop-downs - just ignore any formatting completely.

Also, when mapping a table style in RH to a table style in Word - the list of available table styles is limited to 20 or so Word table styles (of course the one I want is not there). I want to map to Light Grid - Accent 3 - is there any way to make this appear in the list? I just can't work out the logic of why these particular Word Table styles are listed.

I do have your word table macro's which I have used successfully in the past and I also have Macro Express - but I was really trying to avoid this solution as with over 3000 pages of documentation it is still time consuming to locate and update all the tables.

Any suggestions much appreciated

Thanks

Morven

[Peter Grainge]

In the stuff you sent me the RoboHelp projects had blue bullets but the printed documentation had green bullets. I couldn't understand why you wanted different colours but that's for you to decide.

When you work through the steps you will see that at first the bullets are blue in the printed document. Take another look at what is on my site and in this thread and I think you will see what I mean. If not let me know and I will go through the steps again.

I wasn't aware there was a problem with tables in dropdowns. Are you talking about the formatting of the table itself (borders, shading and suchlike) or the text in the tables?

To map to a Word table is a bit tricky Take a look at the Employee Care sample project as the process is described there.

---

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@petergrainge