29 Replies Latest reply: Aug 7, 2012 9:38 AM by Pickory RSS

    Word Import to InDesign CS5

    keithconover Community Member

      I am posting a message asking for help with Word Import.

       

      Background:

       

      I am a single person, not an organization, and I want to edit files in Word (2010) and then import into InDesign (currently have CS5, willing to upgrade to CS5.5 if it will solve my problem).

       

      The reason I want to use Word is that I am doing academic documents, and need to use the program EndNote to enter references, in the standard medical style, into my documents. EndNote has an addin for Word that makes this seamless as one is writing. EndNote will not work with InDesign so it's necessary to use Word and then import.

       

      The standard medical format is to have the references at the end, in order of citation. And the reference citations or calls are superscripted numbers in the text at the end of a sentence or phrase.

       

      I have a fair bit of experience with this process. I started editing text files in XyWrite II+/Note Bene and importing into Ventura Publisher back in the DOS days, before Windows was available.

       

      I have been using Word Import with InDesign since version 2.0 (and it's never quite worked right).

       

      I have a fair bit of expertise with Word Styles, having used them since Word first allowed styles.

       

      I am happy to set up my Word files in either .doc or .dox format, whichever works better.

       

      I am intimately familiar with the mapping of Word styles to InDesign styles, having been trying to get this to work since InDesign 2.0.

       

      I am willing to configure my Word styles however necessary to get them to import into InDesign, and to embed them in normal.dotm, and to use them religously without other styles.

       

      I have spent hours browsing these forums, and the thread that seemed to offer the most hope is this one: Is clean Word import actually possible?

      http://forums.adobe.com/message/3093709#3093709

       

      I have spent 24 hours of time on this issue with Word 2010 and InDesign CS5 over the past few weeks and am getting very frustrated. I am going to post my experience here and see if I can get the problem selved, and if not, will call tech support as a last-ditch effort.

       

      Details:

       

      I want to have the following styles mapped in Word and InDesign.

       

      A standard paragraph style.(e.g., Body Text)

       

      A style for the first paragraph after a header (e.g., FirstPara), which is based on body text but has a 2-line drop cap.

       

      A character style for the first few letters of FirstPara to make them smallcaps. (I don't want to use a nested style, as _I_ want to choose how many letters are going to be smallcaps, rather than a predefined number.)

       

      A style for a blockquote, based on body text (e.g., BlockQuote)

       

      A style for bullets, based on body text. (e.g., Bullet)

       

      A style for references, based on body text, but much smaller (e.g., BackMatter)

       

      I want these styles to be visible in Word, though not necessarily looking like the results in InDesign. For example, I set FirstPara in Word to be in dull red, just so it's quite visible which paragraphs have this style, as Word can't do drop caps as part of a style.

       

      My text will have occasional italics, occasional bold, and fairly  frequent superscripted numbers placed automatically by EndNote. The references at the end will be inserted automatically by EndNote, but it's easy enough to format with a Word style.

       

      And that's it. Nothing very fancy.

       

      Problem:

       

      If I save my text as a .doc file (Word 2003 and earlier), and import it, virtually all the Word style attributes appear in InDesign as overrides. None of my text looks like I formatted in InDesign at all.

       

      If I save my text as a .docs file (Word 2007-2010), the Word style attributes do not come over as much, but I have two other problems. First, my 2-line drop caps actually look like three-line drop caps, and loom above the line, because the 12-point text from the Word style comes through as an override. Second, after every superscripted number (and there are a lot of them) the text does _not_ go back to normal, but stays superscripted.

       

      Attempted Solutions:

       

      Based on advice found in this forum, I have tried a number of potential fixes.

       

      1. Instead of Word's bultin italics and bold, use Word character styles for these. (I even redefined my keyboard in Word to format with these character styles instead of standard bold and italic. Even though it didn't work, I like the idea of having character styles for these in Word and may keep this.)

       

      Then, once you've imported your text, you can select all text (a quintuple-click will work) and clear all overrides. But since your bold and italic in the imported file are really character styles, they will _not_ be cleared. That part works like a charm.

       

      However, the superscripted numbers automatically inserted by EndNote are formatted as superscript and I cannot persuade EndNote to use a style instead. And, I doubt I would be able to find all of the superscripted numbers and reformat them using a character style without (a) a lot of effort, and (b) likely missing quite a few.

       

      So this won't work for me, but it may work for others. Seems that using the older .doc file works best with this method, at least for me.

       

      2. It has been suggested in this forum that no styles to be mapped from Word to Indesign should be based on the bultin Word "Normal" Style. So I made up a new set of Word Styles, replacing my Body Text with a new Body style based on nothing, and based all my variants on Body rather than Body text.

       

      Made no difference.

       

      3. I observed that the Word bultin styles Body Text, Heading 1, Heading 2, Heading 3, and Heading 4, all are both character AND paragraph styles. This is _not_ like InDesign's nested styles, however. In Word, these styles may be applied to a whole paragraph or just a length of text, being interpreted as paragraph or character style appropriately. I don't see the point, but thought it might be a source of the problems. I'd already eschewed Body Text in favor of my own Body style, which was _only_ a paragraph style. So I then replaced Heading 1 with a new H1, which was not based on anything, and then new H2, 3 and 4 styles, all based on H1.

       

      Made no difference.

       

      4. I thought it might have something to do with the text file I was using. So I copied all the text, and pasted into brand-spanking-new Word files. Saved as both .doc and .docx format. Tried Placing both.

       

      Made no difference.

       

      Bottom Line:

       

      For me, I think the best option is to save my files as .docx and import that way. I can then manually select each dropcap and clear overrides. I can then fix the extended superscript problem manually. This seems to require the least amount of manual labor.

       

      Despite years of trying, I have yet to find a way to make InDesign's Word Import work they way it's suppoed to. There's always something that doesn't work right. But with Word 2010 and InDesign CS5, it seems a bit worse than usual.

       

      Sorry for the long post, but I though others might find this informative if not actually helpful.

       

      Any insight on this perennial problem welcomed.

        • 1. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
          peter at knowhowpro Community Member

          keithconover wrote:

           

          I am posting a message asking for help with Word Import.

           

          Background:

           

          I am a single person, not an organization, and I want to edit files in Word (2010) and then import into InDesign (currently have CS5, willing to upgrade to CS5.5 if it will solve my problem).

           

          The reason I want to use Word is that I am doing academic documents, and need to use the program EndNote to enter references, in the standard medical style, into my documents. EndNote has an addin for Word that makes this seamless as one is writing. EndNote will not work with InDesign so it's necessary to use Word and then import.

           

          The standard medical format is to have the references at the end, in order of citation. And the reference citations or calls are superscripted numbers in the text at the end of a sentence or phrase.

           

          I have a fair bit of experience with this process. I started editing text files in XyWrite II+/Note Bene and importing into Ventura Publisher back in the DOS days, before Windows was available.

           

          I have been using Word Import with InDesign since version 2.0 (and it's never quite worked right).

           

          I have a fair bit of expertise with Word Styles, having used them since Word first allowed styles.

           

          I am happy to set up my Word files in either .doc or .dox format, whichever works better.

           

          I am intimately familiar with the mapping of Word styles to InDesign styles, having been trying to get this to work since InDesign 2.0.

           

          I am willing to configure my Word styles however necessary to get them to import into InDesign, and to embed them in normal.dotm, and to use them religously without other styles.

           

          I have spent hours browsing these forums, and the thread that seemed to offer the most hope is this one: Is clean Word import actually possible?

          http://forums.adobe.com/message/3093709#3093709

           

          I have spent 24 hours of time on this issue with Word 2010 and InDesign CS5 over the past few weeks and am getting very frustrated. I am going to post my experience here and see if I can get the problem selved, and if not, will call tech support as a last-ditch effort.

           

          Details:

           

          I want to have the following styles mapped in Word and InDesign.

           

          A standard paragraph style.(e.g., Body Text)

           

          A style for the first paragraph after a header (e.g., FirstPara), which is based on body text but has a 2-line drop cap.

           

          A character style for the first few letters of FirstPara to make them smallcaps. (I don't want to use a nested style, as _I_ want to choose how many letters are going to be smallcaps, rather than a predefined number.)

           

          A style for a blockquote, based on body text (e.g., BlockQuote)

           

          A style for bullets, based on body text. (e.g., Bullet)

           

          A style for references, based on body text, but much smaller (e.g., BackMatter)

           

          I want these styles to be visible in Word, though not necessarily looking like the results in InDesign. For example, I set FirstPara in Word to be in dull red, just so it's quite visible which paragraphs have this style, as Word can't do drop caps as part of a style.

           

          My text will have occasional italics, occasional bold, and fairly  frequent superscripted numbers placed automatically by EndNote. The references at the end will be inserted automatically by EndNote, but it's easy enough to format with a Word style.

           

          And that's it. Nothing very fancy.

           

          Problem:

           

          If I save my text as a .doc file (Word 2003 and earlier), and import it, virtually all the Word style attributes appear in InDesign as overrides. None of my text looks like I formatted in InDesign at all.

           

          If I save my text as a .docs file (Word 2007-2010), the Word style attributes do not come over as much, but I have two other problems. First, my 2-line drop caps actually look like three-line drop caps, and loom above the line, because the 12-point text from the Word style comes through as an override. Second, after every superscripted number (and there are a lot of them) the text does _not_ go back to normal, but stays superscripted.

           

          Attempted Solutions:

           

          Based on advice found in this forum, I have tried a number of potential fixes.

           

          1. Instead of Word's bultin italics and bold, use Word character styles for these. (I even redefined my keyboard in Word to format with these character styles instead of standard bold and italic. Even though it didn't work, I like the idea of having character styles for these in Word and may keep this.)

           

          Then, once you've imported your text, you can select all text (a quintuple-click will work) and clear all overrides. But since your bold and italic in the imported file are really character styles, they will _not_ be cleared. That part works like a charm.

           

          However, the superscripted numbers automatically inserted by EndNote are formatted as superscript and I cannot persuade EndNote to use a style instead. And, I doubt I would be able to find all of the superscripted numbers and reformat them using a character style without (a) a lot of effort, and (b) likely missing quite a few.

           

          So this won't work for me, but it may work for others. Seems that using the older .doc file works best with this method, at least for me.

           

          2. It has been suggested in this forum that no styles to be mapped from Word to Indesign should be based on the bultin Word "Normal" Style. So I made up a new set of Word Styles, replacing my Body Text with a new Body style based on nothing, and based all my variants on Body rather than Body text.

           

          Made no difference.

           

          3. I observed that the Word bultin styles Body Text, Heading 1, Heading 2, Heading 3, and Heading 4, all are both character AND paragraph styles. This is _not_ like InDesign's nested styles, however. In Word, these styles may be applied to a whole paragraph or just a length of text, being interpreted as paragraph or character style appropriately. I don't see the point, but thought it might be a source of the problems. I'd already eschewed Body Text in favor of my own Body style, which was _only_ a paragraph style. So I then replaced Heading 1 with a new H1, which was not based on anything, and then new H2, 3 and 4 styles, all based on H1.

           

          Made no difference.

           

          4. I thought it might have something to do with the text file I was using. So I copied all the text, and pasted into brand-spanking-new Word files. Saved as both .doc and .docx format. Tried Placing both.

           

          Made no difference.

           

          Bottom Line:

           

          For me, I think the best option is to save my files as .docx and import that way. I can then manually select each dropcap and clear overrides. I can then fix the extended superscript problem manually. This seems to require the least amount of manual labor.

           

          Despite years of trying, I have yet to find a way to make InDesign's Word Import work they way it's suppoed to. There's always something that doesn't work right. But with Word 2010 and InDesign CS5, it seems a bit worse than usual.

           

          Sorry for the long post, but I though others might find this informative if not actually helpful.

           

          Any insight on this perennial problem welcomed.

           

          Hi, Keith:

           

          You've certainly put in the effort to make this work.

           

          It's a little hard for me to follow your description, partly because I've not used Word in ages, and never used EndNote, so I don't have direct experience with an original Word file like yours with EndNote stuff, and its various outputs and results in InDesign.

           

          However, if you search Google for "InDesign endnote cross reference" without quotes, you'll find this link: http://blogs.adobe.com/indesigndocs/2009/03/endnotes_in_indesign_cs4.html

           

          It cites a post I made about using InDesign cross-references for endnotes, and should give you some ideas about working with the converted file. If I understand your description, the endnotes are collected correctly at the end of the file. It's not clear if you're using a single file, or a book of collected individual files, so I'm not sure if you're collecting endnotes at the end of each "chapter" file, in a single location at the end of all the chapter files, or at the end of a single book-length file. If it's a collection of chapter files, you may find some problems with cross-file cross-references that some users have reported; if all your content is in a single file, there's no issue.

           

          I'm just speculating, but I think if you can search and find the EndNote reference numbers in Word, you could mark them with a unique character or a few characters not used elsewhere, and in the InDesign file, search for that unique marker, and at the found location, manually create a cross-reference to the appropriate endnote.

           

          Search Google for terms like "InDesign cross-reference" and similar terms without quotes for more detail.

           

          HTH

           

          Regards,

           

          Peter

          _______________________

          Peter Gold

          KnowHow ProServices

          • 2. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
            Jeffrey_Smith MVP
            The reason I want to use Word is that I am doing academic documents, and need to use the program EndNote to enter references

            What is the reason you need to import into Indesign, and for the matter, use Indesign at all for this kind of project?

            • 3. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
              keithconover Community Member

              Hello, Peter, and thank you for your post.

               

              I believe that some will find your post helpful, but unfortunately I don't think it will help with my issue.

               

              I guess I should have been more clear about how EndNote works. It actually takes care of all the cross-referencing itself, so what it inserts is actually a superscripted number, not an actually Word cross-reference. Hidden in the number is a label that references to the bibiliographic database in the EndNote program itself. The list of references at the end are endnotes but not "real" cross-referenced type endnotes - as far as Word is concerned, it's just some text.

               

              Thanks again.

              • 4. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                keithconover Community Member

                Hi, Jeffrey, thanks for your reply.

                 

                I'm using InDesign so I can have professional-looking handouts for many and varied educational venues, not only for printing handouts, but also for posting as PDFs online.

                 

                InDeisgn simply allows better control over page layout and typography and better PDF export options than Word 2010. I long ago gave up on Word as a page layout program - it simply doesn't work well at all.

                • 5. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                  peter at knowhowpro Community Member

                  keithconover wrote:

                   

                  Hello, Peter, and thank you for your post.

                   

                  I believe that some will find your post helpful, but unfortunately I don't think it will help with my issue.

                   

                  I guess I should have been more clear about how EndNote works. It actually takes care of all the cross-referencing itself, so what it inserts is actually a superscripted number, not an actually Word cross-reference. Hidden in the number is a label that references to the bibiliographic database in the EndNote program itself. The list of references at the end are endnotes but not "real" cross-referenced type endnotes - as far as Word is concerned, it's just some text.

                   

                  Thanks again.

                  Hi, Keith:

                   

                  Although you've enlightened me about EndNote, I think perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my reply.

                   

                  I was suggesting to eliminate EndNote from the process by marking the endnote references in the Word file, with a text item that's not used for any other purpose in the document. Then, in the imported document in InDesign, find each instance of the unique text item and create an InDesign cross-reference to the endnotes that have also been imported.

                   

                  So, your manual work would consist of marking in Word, and finding and inserting cross-references in InDesign. Again, see the link I posted earlier, and use the suggested Google searches for details; I almost always do the searches I suggest to see what's dredged up. If you look on the first results page of the endnotes search, you'll find a few links that seem to address your problems.

                   

                  HTH

                   

                  Regards,

                   

                  Peter

                  _______________________

                  Peter Gold

                  KnowHow ProServices

                  • 6. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                    keithconover Community Member

                    Thanks again, Peter.

                     

                    I am familiar with InDesign cross-references, I re-reviewed Bob Bringhurst's post about endnotes (I did read it back when CS4 came out, too), and took a look through some of the "InDesign cross-reference: Google search results.

                     

                    But when I have a 3 page document with 50 references, what you suggest actually sounds like a _lot_ of work. EndNote makes the process trivial by automating everything, and having to insert 50 text labels and then search and replace sounds like a lot more work than some of the other alternatives I've considered, particularly due to side effects I've discovred when trying to do this in the past.

                     

                    One of the great advantages of using EndNote is that it does not use Word's cross-reference features at all. It puts in superscripted numbers in the text, and an appropriately numbered list of references at the end.

                     

                    When I insert a reference citation in the text in Word, I simply find the reference in my EndNote bibliographic database, and click a hotkey. The appropriate superscripted number is entered, other superscripted numbers throughout the text are renumbered (for example, from 9-11 to 10-12) and the bibliography at the end is updated and renumbered.  When using InDesign cross-references in the past, I had to manually reformat many citations and add in hyphens. Yuck.

                     

                    Having to lose this and manually enter cross references, AND reformat any other place that the cross-reference appears, AND reformatting to have a hyphen if there are more than three cross-references, is very painful. However, now that EndNote works so well (it didn't work so well a few years ago which is why I tried InDesign cross-reference) and savse so many hassles, I am extremely, extremely wary of tryng to manually touch those reference citations in any way.

                     

                    I guess this is also a backhanded ad for EndNote - it really, really simplifies bibliographic references in scientific or medical papers. Highly recopmmended. Now if only it worked directly with InDesign...

                    • 7. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                      keithconover Community Member

                      I have also found one other unusual feature of Word 2010 .docx import.

                       

                      Sometimes, when two italic words or phrases appear close together, using the Emphasis character style rather than Word's internal italics, all the words between them are also italicized. The picture shows two examples of this. If you put the cursor within the family/species names or the italicized word "adult" and look at the Application Bar, the character style is Emphasis and the text weight is italic. If you put the cursor on the italic text between the family species names/word "adult", the character style is [none] but the text weight is still italic.The text looks appropriately italicized in Word 2010, see the second picture.

                      Also, if you want to see the entire document as it should be, at least mostly, after manual tweaking except for the Hyperlink style that was overridden by the Word style, see http://conovers.org/ftp/Ticks.pdf .InDesign-Import-1.pngInDesign-Import-2.png

                      • 8. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                        David W. Goodrich Community Member

                        I do not know if it is true, but it has been reported that Endnote adds custom fields to MS Word files that can cause major problems (lost footnotes) for ID's footnoting capabilities.  Criticism of ID's footnoting capabilities are all too common.  Maybe it would help if there were a mechanism for "flattening" Endnotes additions to a MS Word file -- not so convenient for scholars, perhaps, but those who work in pre-press have the idea that there is much to be said for "finalizing" a file before submitting it for publication.

                         

                        David

                        • 9. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                          Jeff_Olson Community Member

                          Have you tried changing the
                          Indesign:Preferences:Clipboard Handling:

                          When Pasting Text and Tables from Other Applications Paste: "All Information (Index Markers, Swatches, Styles, etc.)" button to on?

                          I know pasting<placing, but I've noticed with that prefrence checked that it captures more of the info.

                          • 10. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                            keithconover Community Member

                            Thanks for the reply. Yes, I suspect that some of the custom EndNote information hidden in the superscripted citation is why the text doesn't return from superscript to normal text. I actually had this problem back when I was importing XyWrite/Nota Bene files into Ventura Publisher in the DOS days.

                             

                            But Word doesn't have good facilities for searching and changing within such hidden labels; at least not when I tried it a few years ago.

                             

                            I suspect that manually returning the text to non-superscript after each citation might be easier than trying to "flatten" those citations. At least the greeked superscript text is very obvious so I won't miss any of it.

                            • 11. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                              keithconover Community Member

                              Jeff_Olson wrote:

                               

                              Have you tried changing the
                              Indesign:Preferences:Clipboard Handling:

                              When Pasting Text and Tables from Other Applications Paste: "All Information (Index Markers, Swatches, Styles, etc.)" button to on?

                              I know pasting<placing, but I've noticed with that prefrence checked that it captures more of the info.

                              Jeff, I had been so brainwahed over the years to always use Place and never use Paste that I didn't even think about it.

                               

                              I went through my styles in InDesign, and named them the same as in Word, since the import-matching doesn't apply, and my style names were a bit different.

                               

                              I then did as you suggestions, to paste everything, and tried pasting into my document.

                               

                              Not perfect, still some issues, but overall looks pretty good.

                               

                              InDesign-Import-3.png

                               

                              If you look at the picture, you'll see why I like to use InDesign rather than Word for such handouts, Word just can't handle it. But you'll also see a couple problems. In Word, the SmallCaps character style has a text color of "automatic" which is to say none. But it brings through the color that I used to indicated FirstPara Paragraph Style in Word, since you can't have drop-cap paragraph styles in Word. By changing the text color in the Word SmallCaps character style to "black" rather than "automatic" this fixed that problem.

                               

                              But if you notice, the followon paragraphs, which are to have a paragraph style of Body in both Word and InDesign, brings with it the Word formatting (12 point type). That's because, even though I have a Body style in Word and a Body style in InDesign (both spelled and capitalized the same), everything from the Word document that's got a Body paragraph style comes through as a new Normal+ style. Sigh.

                               

                              But there seems to be a simple fix. I right-click the new Normal paragraph style in the Styles palette, select delete, and when asked what to replace it with, specify Body. Problem fixed.

                               

                              Almost.

                               

                              Turns out that about half of my FirstPara pagagraphs come through as Normal, too. But I can manually click on each of these and quickly change them back to FirstPara.

                               

                              The only problem is that for these paragraphs, that red color I'd used in Word to show that something really was a FirstPara comes through as an override, and if I clear all overrides, I lose my superscripted numbers. I'll have to work on that some more.

                               

                              InDesign-Import-4.png

                              • 12. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                peter at knowhowpro Community Member

                                Virginia Systems has an endnote plugin that might work for you. It comes up in the Google searches I suggested earlier, but apparently you didn't catch it. http://www.virginiasystems.com/products_d.html

                                 

                                There's a trial.

                                 

                                HTH

                                 

                                Regards,

                                 

                                Peter

                                _______________________

                                Peter Gold

                                KnowHow ProServices

                                • 13. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                  keithconover Community Member

                                  Thanks, Peter. I did take a look at the Virginia Systems addins, and if I were doing a book (which I have in the past and may again in the future) I would certainly investigate these in detail.

                                   

                                  However, I think that for my current use, the Word EndNote addin is far superior due to the bibliographic capabilities it provides.

                                   

                                  Thanks again.

                                  • 14. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                    keithconover Community Member

                                    Keith Conover wrote:

                                     

                                    If you look at the picture, you'll see why I like to use InDesign rather than Word for such handouts, Word just can't handle it. But you'll also see a couple problems. In Word, the SmallCaps character style has a text color of "automatic" which is to say none. But it brings through the color that I used to indicated FirstPara Paragraph Style in Word, since you can't have drop-cap paragraph styles in Word. By changing the text color in the Word SmallCaps character style to "black" rather than "automatic" this fixed that problem.

                                     

                                    But if you notice, the followon paragraphs, which are to have a paragraph style of Body in both Word and InDesign, brings with it the Word formatting (12 point type). That's because, even though I have a Body style in Word and a Body style in InDesign (both spelled and capitalized the same), everything from the Word document that's got a Body paragraph style comes through as a new Normal+ style. Sigh.

                                     

                                    But there seems to be a simple fix. I right-click the new Normal paragraph style in the Styles palette, select delete, and when asked what to replace it with, specify Body. Problem fixed.

                                     

                                    Almost.

                                     

                                    Turns out that about half of my FirstPara pagagraphs come through as Normal, too. But I can manually click on each of these and quickly change them back to FirstPara.

                                     

                                    The only problem is that for these paragraphs, that red color I'd used in Word to show that something really was a FirstPara comes through as an override, and if I clear all overrides, I lose my superscripted numbers. I'll have to work on that some more.

                                     

                                    I found a better alternative to coloring my FirstPara paragraphs red: in Word, set a left border. It doesn't come through as an override in InDesign so no need to change the text color of the SmallCaps character style.

                                     

                                    I did find that all of my custom heading styles (H1, H2, H3, H4) came through with overrides and I had to clear overrides on each heading manually. Not sure why.

                                     

                                    Wish that the development team would work on the Place import matching to make it more robust.

                                    • 15. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                      keithconover Community Member

                                      I am still struggling with this. I started trying to get Word and InDesign to play well together for a new Woprd 201 document (and InDesign 5). It was all working fine with all my paragraph styles coming across but using the matching InDesign paragraph styles, my italics and bold and superscript coming across right. The only problem was a character style I'd named Smallcaps. It brought with it the font and point size from Word.

                                       

                                      Finally figured out I'd named the character style Smallcaps in Word and SMALLCAPS in InDesign. OK, deleted the SMALLCAPS and made a new Smallcaps.

                                       

                                      WHAM! BLAM!

                                       

                                      Now all of my paragraphy styles come across with the font and point size from Word. Deleting the Smallcaps style didn't make it go back to working. Making sure the frame had no paragraph or character style set as default didn't fix it.

                                       

                                      Waaah!  I broke my almost-perfect style matching!

                                       

                                      No clue why.

                                      • 16. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                        John Hawkinson Community Member

                                        I'm afraid your description lost me.

                                        Have you tried export to RTF from Word and placing that in InDesign.

                                        One advantage of RTF is you can look at the raw file by hand and see whether InDesign is interpertting it correctly.

                                        • 17. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                          allisonblake Community Member

                                          http://forums.adobe.com/thread/974155?tstart=90

                                           

                                          I don't have time right now to read your thread, but it sounds similar to the problem I described a few days ago (and apparently last year as well!)

                                          See my last post for my latest insights into this irritating problem.

                                          • 18. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                            r-j-f Community Member

                                            Hello Keith

                                             

                                            I have been frustrated with Word imports but found that the preptext script has been invaluable in preserving the format I want and getting rid of the rest. The process isn't wholly automatic as there's still some clearing of overrides but it's saved me a huge amount of trouble.See http://indesignsecrets.com/free-scripts-help-fix-word-formatting.php.

                                            • 19. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                              keithconover Community Member

                                              John, I have tried RTF import and that actually makes things worse.

                                              Allison, I have reviewed your thread (several times) and my problems are similar.

                                              RJF, preptext sounds good for someone who is publishing documents created by others, but I am a single person trying to use Word as an editor (with EndNote for references) and InDesign for page layout. I am trying to maintain documents so that I can update the Word file as new information comes out, and still tweak the layout in InDesign without much effort.

                                               

                                              I do have some more information to contribute on this bug or series of bugs.

                                               

                                              First, I _do_ have a document where the linked Word file imports fine, every time, with all styles correctly mapped. However, for this particular document, I am mapping _no_ character styles.

                                               

                                              Any document for which I try to map character styles, then style overrides from Word creep through the import process. This is true of both character and paragraph styles. Thus, the problem seems to be in the mapping of character styles (*** clue for development team ***)

                                               

                                              I also found that the behavior is sometimes different on my Win7 64-bit laptop and my WinXP SP3 desktop. Both have the same install of InDesign 5 and Word 2010. If I Place the Word file on my laptop, style overrides creep through for my heading styles but not my body text files. If I Place the Word file on my desktop, style overrides creep through for body text styles as well. It is the act of importing that does this, not simply opening the file.

                                               

                                              Assume I have Placed the Word file on my desktop, so that style overrides creep through for body text styles.

                                               

                                              If I sync my laptop and desktop, copying over the files from desktop to laptop, and then open the .indd file on my laptop, the body text style overrides still appear. Simply relinking the file does not cure the problem. Unlinking and then deleting the text, and then Placing again, does not make the problem go away, either. In fact, when I tried just now, making an edit to the Word file on my laptop, then saving it, then Placing it again, this time allows the body text overrides through this time.

                                               

                                              Frustrating.

                                               

                                              One simple workaround I have found: if I set the font and point size in Word, then even if it carries across, it's OK.

                                              • 20. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                                allisonblake Community Member

                                                Keith,

                                                Our word docs don't have character styles so I can't speak to that, but I have found that the best way to avoid the style overrides is to have the Word styles match as closely as possible the InDesign styles and make sure the Word styles are based on NONE. Import ignores the font settings under these conditions so I can use Times in the Word styles (which the editors prefer) and it maps correctly to the font used in the ID style.

                                                • 21. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                                  HSGROW_HK Community Member

                                                  Keith,

                                                   

                                                  I understand the associated pain when importing Endnote citations into ID. I'm writing my PhD and having a similar problem. Out of interest what version of Endnote are you using and which output style? I have found the most effective way of importing Word docs with Endnote citations is to use the "Convert to Plain Text" command on the Endnote tab (windows) or Tools->Endnote X5 menu (Mac) prior to importation into ID. Then using the GREP Find and Replace you can change all of the 'overrides' in the reference list to be character styles quickly and easily. I have found that keeping word-related formatting to a minimum has helped tremendously as well.

                                                  • 22. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                                    Pickory Community Member

                                                    Hello Keith,

                                                     

                                                    I have not fully ready this thread. Is the jist of this that style overrides are creeping in on placing a Word document? If the overrides are cleared is the document formatted correctly?

                                                     

                                                    P.

                                                    • 23. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                                      keithconover Community Member

                                                      In answer to Pickory, yes, the problem is that lots of Word character (and, likely, paragraph) style overrides creep in even though they're not supposed to. Clearing overrides clears ALL the overrides, including those that are supposed to be there, including superscripts for reference calls (using the standard medical format), italics, bold, So "clear overrides" also clears out all those things that you WANT.

                                                       

                                                      As far as what HSGROW_HK said, I'm using the latest version of EndNote, and I use a the New England Journal medical format. My problem is not with the formatting of the bibliography, but that the medical format requires the calls to be superscripted numbers in order of citation, which requires a lot of format twiddling, which EndNote handles admirably.

                                                       

                                                      Having the Word styles based on NONE doesn't seem to affect my problem.

                                                       

                                                      I now have InDesign CS6, and tried making a new CS6 document and then placing the Word file into it. Much better than with previous versions, but still a few overrides crept through. An initial dropcap for one style is too big, and for another style, the leading of the text is wrong. Not perfect, but a lot better.

                                                       

                                                      Maybe with a slipstream upgrade these will go away, too. Or maybe we have to wait for CS7.

                                                      • 24. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                                        Susan567 Community Member

                                                        I am excited to learn that I am not the only one with this problem, and setting the WORD styles to based on nothing looks promising, but it did not solve my problem with the language in Word and the dictionary in InDesign. Formerly, when I set the language in Word, it mapped to the correct dictionary in Word. Now it seems erratic. Sometimes it maps Spanish to Spanish, sometimes Spanish to English, sometimes it even sets it to Arabic. Is it impossible now to set the language in Word and have it work in InDesign. I want to run the spell check first in Word, then in InDesign, and in order to do this, I have to tag most of the text with the dictionary again in InDesign, even though I have set text styles with the proper dictionary. It is complicated by the fact that whent the text is in Spanish, it will be filled with brief quotes in another language, so I need overrides of the language to be preserved as well.

                                                        • 25. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                                          Pickory Community Member

                                                          Here is avery old article, might have some helpful bits in it.

                                                           

                                                          http://www.indesignusergroup.com/chapters/chicago/notes/2004/03_25/03_25_notes.php

                                                           

                                                          P.

                                                          • 26. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                                            Susan567 Community Member

                                                            Thank you very much. That, along with this thread, is certainly giving me food for thought. This has been bothering me for a long time, and lately I've begun to think I should just give up assigning styles in Word and do it all in ID. I'll study up on these things and see what it does for me.

                                                            • 27. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                                              allisonblake Community Member

                                                              I've found that sometimes there is no rhyme or reason why Word imports incorrectly into ID. I've had glyphs (greek characters mostly) drop out for no reason, subscripts randomly have symbol font applied though this setting was not assigned in the Word doc, etc. Basing each Word style on none gets me 90% of the way there and I just fix the rest of the stuff in ID with a series of search/replace that I've scripted. I  spent WAY too much time trying to figure out how to get every Word document to behave.

                                                              • 28. Re: Word Import to InDesign CS5
                                                                Susan567 Community Member

                                                                Thanks, Allison. That's been the conclusion I've been coming to. I will try adjusting the Word styles, something I haven't considered before because I thought if they were named properly, it SHOULD work. If that doesn't produce better results, I think I have spent way too much time on this myself. SInce I do the work in both Word and ID, I don't have the problem of editors objecting to changes. The only problem of that sort is getting the files submitted by the authors to conform.

                                                                 

                                                                Again, it is good to know others are struggling with the same problem. The book I am working on right now is composed in Spanish with quotes in Spanish, English, French, and Galician. There is a Galician language designation in Word, but no Galician dictionary in ID, to my surprise. I'm just now wondering if I could have found one if I had used Hunspell. I am just now learning what the advantages of the Hunspell dictionaries might be. Up to now I've thought, if it ain't broke don't fix it, and stuck with the proximxity dictionaries. But it appears I can specify for each language in ID which dictionary I want to use. [Snd by the way, since Word didn't flag anything in the Galician as misspelled, I am wondering if the language designation is really attached to a dictionary in Word, anyway.]