18 Replies Latest reply: Oct 24, 2013 10:20 AM by Zac Lam RSS

    Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?

    Rallymax Community Member

      I know this is a bit off topic from Premiere SDK but since there is no Encore (highly technical) forum I thought it best to post here instead of emailing Zac directly (so that others may learn the answer).

       

      My question is this:

           Specifically, what does it take for Encore to NOT transcode an input video file for DVD (mpeg2) or BluRay (mpeg4) destination?

       

      thx.

        • 1. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
          Zac Lam Adobe Employee

          Encore uses the Sonic HDMV SDK for Blu-Ray support. Below are the video formats supported by Encore:

           

          Resolution

          Display Aspect Ratio

          FPS

          Scan Mode

          TV Standard

          1920 × 1080

          16x9

          29.97

          Interlaced

          NTSC

          1920 × 1080

          16x9

          25

          Interlaced

          PAL

          1920 × 1080

          16x9

          24

          Progressive

          NTSC, PAL

          1920 × 1080

          16x9

          23.976

          Progressive

          NTSC, PAL

          1440 × 1080

          16x9

          29.97

          Interlaced

          NTSC

          1440 × 1080

          16x9

          25

          Interlaced

          PAL

          1440 × 1080

          16x9

          24

          Progressive

          NTSC, PAL

          1440 × 1080

          16x9

          23.976

          Progressive

          NTSC, PAL

          1280 × 720

          16x9

          59.94

          Progressive

          NTSC

          1280 × 720

          16x9

          50

          Progressive

          PAL

          1280 × 720

          16x9

          24

          Progressive

          NTSC, PAL

          1280 × 720

          16x9

          23.976

          Progressive

          NTSC, PAL

          720 × 576

          16x9

          25

          Interlaced

          PAL

          720 × 576

          4x3

          25

          Interlaced

          PAL

          720 × 480

          16x9

          29.97

          Interlaced

          NTSC

          720 × 480

          4x3

          29.97

          Interlaced

          NTSC

           

          And here are the audio formats supported:

           

          Codec

          File Format

          Sample Rate

          Sample Size

          Channels

          Max Bitrate

          LPCM

          .wav

          48 kHz

          16, 20, 24

          2, 4, 6, 8

          n/a

          LPCM

          .wav

          96 kHz

          16, 20, 24

          2, 4, 6, 8

          n/a

          LPCM

          .wav

          192 kHz

          16, 20, 24

          2, 4, 6

          n/a

          Dolby Digital

          .ac3

          48 kHz

          n/a

          up to 6

          640 kbps

          Dolby Digital Plus

          .ec3

          48 kHz

          n/a

          up to 8

          4736 kbps

          DTS

          .dts, .cpt

          48 kHz

          n/a

          up to 5

          1509 kbps

          DTS-HD

          .dts-hd

          48 kHz

          n/a

          up to 8

          24500 kbps

          DTS-HD

          .dts-hd

          96 kHz

          n/a

          up to 8

          24500 kbps

          DTS-HD

          .dts-hd

          192 kHz

          n/a

          up to 6

          24500 kbps

           


          Let me know if you have any specific questions on the specs, or any files that are getting transcoded, and I can take a look.

           

           

           

          • 2. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
            Rallymax Community Member

            Thanks Zac,

             

            Can you comment on what containers are allowed and with what streams?

             

            Eg

                  File extension    streams inside it

                  .MP4              [M4V + PCM]

                  .MP4              [M4V only]

                  .M4V              RAW Mpeg4 video stream 

             

                  .MTS              Mpeg TS[M2V]

                  .M2V              RAW Mpeg2 video stream

             

            For example, I dropped a M2V file into the project that is in a resolution listed below and it still wanted to transcode.

            • 3. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
              Zac Lam Adobe Employee

              The Encore forum has a FAQ on troubleshooting m2v files that are being transcoded by Encore: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/398763?tstart=0

               

              This tutorial might also help: http://blogs.adobe.com/davtechtable/2008/04/apples_compressor_encore_blura.html

              • 4. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                Kengo Mikoshiba Community Member

                Hi Zac-san

                 

                Though I might be wrong...

                 

                You should prepare AC3 or Dts for audio of channels that are more than two.

                For example, it is mixed with two channels even in case of WAVE of six channels if you prepare LPCM.

                 

                Regards,

                Kengo Mikoshiba.

                 

                ----- from my notes -----

                The syntax of MPEG-2 and the H.264 data depends on the encoder.

                And Encore does not check the syntax of these streams. I guess.

                It is not guarantee even if Encore doesn't transcode your prepared data is fit for DVD or Blu-ray.

                I expect it is no problem if you use a standard plug-in of Premiere.

                • 5. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                  Sengstack Community Member

                  Hi Zak,

                   

                  I have a couple technical questions about AVCHD, Blu-ray pass-through.

                   

                  1) The Help files notes that "Encore does not transcode Blu-ray legal AVCHD files. The table of legal frame sizes does not include 1920x1080 30 progressive. Yet, when I use Adobe Dynamic Link in Encore CS5 to import a P Pro CS5 AVCHD 1080 30p sequence, and then convert that to a Timeline, the listing under Blu-ray Transcode Status is "--" and under Blu-ray Transcode Settings is "N/A." Can you or someone on the Encore team explain that?

                   

                  2) If a P Pro sequence has non-AVCHD items in it (AVI files or still images, for example), how does Encore handle them such that they do not have to be transcoded for Blu-ray?

                   

                  Thanks,

                   

                  Jeff Sengstack

                  • 6. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                    Rallymax Community Member

                    Hi Zak,

                     

                    I have a couple technical questions about AVCHD, Blu-ray pass-through.

                     

                    1) The Help files notes that "Encore does not transcode Blu-ray legal AVCHD files. The table of legal frame sizes does not include 1920x1080 30 progressive. Yet, when I use Adobe Dynamic Link in Encore CS5 to import a P Pro CS5 AVCHD 1080 30p sequence, and then convert that to a Timeline, the listing under Blu-ray Transcode Status is "--" and under Blu-ray Transcode Settings is "N/A." Can you or someone on the Encore team explain that?

                     

                    2) If a P Pro sequence has non-AVCHD items in it (AVI files or still images, for example), how does Encore handle them such that they do not have to be transcoded for Blu-ray?

                     

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    Simply put – if the source video file is .264 or .m4v (for AVC – I’m not getting into VC-1 or MPEG2) and exactly matches the screen size/frame rate/pixel aspect ratio as required by the blu-ray spec it will skip rendering it and use the source file.

                     

                     

                     

                    If you use Dynamic Linking from P-Pro there is very little chance that it will get the video stream blu-ray legal. – unless the source footage is blu-ray legal and you have cut-only edits and you are in an editing mode that supports AVC smart rendering. So if the source is images etc then it will need to render aka transcode.

                     

                     

                     

                    As for why 1080 30p is coming up “--“ I don’t know. Seems like a corner case bug to me.

                     

                     

                     

                    Rallymax.

                    • 7. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                      Sengstack Community Member

                      Hi Rallymax,

                       

                      Thanks for your response. I have two follow-up questions:

                       

                      1) Regarding Dynamic Linking: What is AVC smart rendering? I don't know that that is an option in P Pro or Encore.

                       

                      2) You said uing Dynamic Linking means "there is very little chance that [Encore] will get the video stream blu-ray legal." What workflow does passthrough AVCHD clips to Blu-ray without rendering?

                       

                      Jeff

                      • 8. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                        J. Simon Community Member

                        The table of legal frame sizes does not include 1920x1080 30 progressive.

                         

                        The Blu-ray disk format does not include the possibility of 30p.  This is not an Encore specific limitation, but a Blu-ray disk limitation.  (Though admittedly I can't explain the Transcode values using Dynamic Link.  My own suggestion here would be to not shoot 30p when going to Blu-ray, and to just not use Dynamic Link.  Export out of Premiere Pro first.)

                        • 9. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                          J. Simon Community Member

                          2) If a P Pro sequence has non-AVCHD items in it (AVI files or still images, for example), how does Encore handle them such that they do not have to be transcoded for Blu-ray?

                           

                          Everything in a PP sequence will need transcoding.  There's no way around that.

                          • 10. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                            Rallymax Community Member

                            Hi Jeff,

                             

                             

                             

                            First off before I get into the technical…

                             

                             

                             

                            The reason that Encore won’t accept 1080p30 or 1080p29.97 is because that’s not Blu-ray legal. At 1080p only 24 fps is supported (1080p24).

                             

                             

                             

                            If you do have 1080p source you have to render it with the interlaced flag set to say that it’s interlaced even though it was really encoded as progressive. – see here for the list of Blu-ray resolutions and frame rates:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Video

                             

                             

                             

                            Ok onto your questions…

                             

                             

                             

                            1) Regarding Dynamic Linking: What is AVC smart rendering? I don't know that that is an option in P Pro or Encore.

                             

                             

                             

                            Smart Rendering… ok I’ll take a stab at explaining it but I bet there is a good description in the SDK.

                             

                             

                             

                            IF you have an IMPORTER, PLAYER & EXPORTER (combined known as an EDITING MODE) that all know about each other (because they were developed by the same company and have hooks to talk to each other) it’s possible to skip re-transcoding.

                             

                             

                             

                            When you register an IMPORTER and EXPORTER you must register a custom FourCC code. If the EXPORTER asks for that code and gets it back from the Render Suite it knows that it can simply COPY a frame from the IMPORTER to the EXPORTER output.

                             

                             

                             

                            If there is a plugin in the render path (eg a filter or transition) between the IMPORTER and the EXPORTER the request for FourCC  “abcd” will fail because it doesn’t know how to do it for FourCC “abcd”. In that case you have to drop back to using one of the standard PixelFormats – eg YUVA 10bit is called FourCC=“v210”. (http://www.fourcc.org/yuv.php)

                             

                             

                             

                            For codecs such as DV and HDV which have no user configurable settings like resolution, frame rate, pixel aspect ratio or datarate it’s easy to copy from the IMPORTER to the EXPORTER. BUT… for other more configurable codecs like MPEG2, AVC (aka H.264 aka MPEG-4 part 10) there are TONNES of settings – and more importantly THEY ARE NOT SAVED IN THE SOURCE FILE. Therefore there is no way for the EXPORTER to query the IMPORTER to see if your export settings exactly match the import source so the chance of a COPY instead of a re-transcode is basically nil.

                             

                            Having said that some implementers might hack around that and give you a SMART RENDERING anyhow that doesn’t check for compatibility and blindly copies the SOURCE in whatever form it is in. Kinda risky in my opinion but it is possible.

                             

                             

                             

                            In that case, then yes, you get a COPY of the source instead of decode to YUV and then re-encode to (compressed) AVC.

                             

                             

                             

                            BTW whether you’re in Encore or Premiere Pro or Adobe Media Encoder (AME) it’s all the same thing. You have an IMPORTER feeding to video a Render pipeline that feeds to the EXPORTER. Opening a file in Encore or AME just means that the Render pipeline has no filters or transitions or cuts to process. It’s the same as dropping a file on a P Pro sequence with no edits or filters or transitions and rendering that out.

                             

                             

                             

                            2) You said using Dynamic Linking means "there is very little chance that will get the video stream blu-ray legal." What workflow does passthrough AVCHD clips to Blu-ray without rendering?

                             

                             

                             

                            Zac, if you have a Premiere Project Dynamically Linked into an Encore project is Encore going to always decide that it needs transcoding?

                             

                            If the sequence is configured at Blu-ray legal dimensions AND it can provide the custom FourCC = “AVC “ theoretically it meets the condition check right?

                             

                             

                             

                            Also, has Encore CS5.5 been upgraded to support Blu-ray 3D with its use of the MVC codec extension to the AVC codec?

                             

                            If not, when will Encore be able to do Blu-ray 3D?

                             

                             

                             

                            ‘hope that helps,

                             

                             

                             

                            Rallymax.

                            • 11. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                              Zac Lam Adobe Employee

                              Hi Rallymax, Sengstack,

                              2) You said using Dynamic Linking means "there is very little chance that Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal? will get the video stream blu-ray legal." What workflow does passthrough AVCHD clips to Blu-ray without rendering?

                               

                               

                               

                              Zac, if you have a Premiere Project Dynamically Linked into an Encore project is Encore going to always decide that it needs transcoding?

                               

                              If the sequence is configured at Blu-ray legal dimensions AND it can provide the custom FourCC = “AVC “ theoretically it meets the condition check right?

                               

                              I would agree with Jim Simon.  If you're using Dynamic Link in Encore, it won't be bringing in compressed AVC, and you'll need to transcode.

                               

                              So rather than importing PPro projects, importing pre-encoded Blu-ray compliant files is going to be the way to skip the transcode in Encore.

                              Also, has Encore CS5.5 been upgraded to support Blu-ray 3D with its use of the MVC codec extension to the AVC codec

                               

                              Not yet.  Good feature request!

                               

                              Cheers,

                               

                              Zac

                              • 12. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                                Sengstack Community Member

                                Rallymax,

                                 

                                Thanks for the smart rendering tour and the other explanations. I think I've got a handle on this now.

                                 

                                Jeff

                                • 13. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                                  m2425

                                  My file format for my DTS-HD MA files from the DTS-HD Master Audio Suite (on my mac) results in the extension .dtshd & not .dts-hd, is there going to be any problems for Encore CS6?

                                  • 14. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                                    Zac Lam Adobe Employee

                                    Hi m2425,

                                     

                                    I think the original question on this thread has been answered.  Can you start a new thread with your new question, and if you want, post the link in this one?

                                     

                                    Thanks,

                                     

                                    Zac

                                    • 16. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                                      neil wilkes MVP

                                      m2425 wrote:

                                       

                                      My file format for my DTS-HD MA files from the DTS-HD Master Audio Suite (on my mac) results in the extension .dtshd & not .dts-hd, is there going to be any problems for Encore CS6?

                                      That's correct. extension for these file types is .dtshd, and the stream will also contain the hidden core audio stream (this should have been set up at the encoding stage). You will not be able to preview these streams.

                                      • 17. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                                        Spegis Community Member

                                        Zac, Thank you for this great list. For acceptable Audio formats, if I want to use a 6 or 8 channel LPCM file, do any of the CC applications create an acceptable surround file? If no, can you advise on what software I can look into?

                                        • 18. Re: Encore: what does it take to get an input legal?
                                          Zac Lam Adobe Employee

                                          Hi Spegis,

                                           

                                          Unfortunately I don't have the answer handy.  Can you start a new thread with your new question?

                                           

                                          Thanks,

                                           

                                          Zac