14 Replies Latest reply: Mar 20, 2012 11:35 AM by Darkriderdesign RSS

    Wallaby & Flex ?

    daslicht Community Member


      will there be a way to convert a Flex Project also to html5 ?


      What about Spark Lists, Item renderers etc. ..., are there plans to convert such functionality as well ?

        • 1. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?
          michael.orourke Community Member

          The current focus for Wallaby is enabling the conversion of artwork and animations to HTML5. Since Flex is more about on Rich Internet Applications (RIA) there are no plans at this time to support Flex to HTML5 in Wallaby.

          • 2. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?

            Hi Michael,


            as a full commited flex developer, i think you should start thinkin about it. Flex is the best framework in the world to create rich internet applications. There's nothing like it and is a pleasure to work with.


            But if the apps we create with flex have to compete with native html5 on browsers, we're lost. Html5 will be the standard on the browsers, like it or not. So being able to compile flex apps to html5 will be a must in 3 - 5 years. Otherwise we (the developers) will be forced to move to another tecnologies to create standard web applications. It's not a matter of preferences, is a matter of survival. If we needed to move to assembler to keep working, we would. Market rules.


            Anyone that has worked with javascript knows that is an obsolete prehistoric language, and it is a real pain to do a full development cicle with it. So the good idea is to leave html5 simply as a virtual machine that runs code compiled with other powerfull frameworks or languages (just the same idea as GWT). The best framework now is FLEX. But the best virtual machine in the next years will be something called HTML5. Create the bridge between them and you will create the most perfect enviroment of all times.



            I'm not saying creating such compiler technology is difficult. But you should stard doing it right NOW, 'cause in some years it will be extremely necessary.



            Hope you take it into account! We don't want to get back to the crappy and awful javascript + css + html !!! please!!




            • 3. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?
              daslicht Community Member

              You mean compile Flex to JavaScript ???

              Currently its really a pity to deal with audio on using HTML5's Audio Tag since you would need to encode you audio twice (double space on server) to be able to serve audio to all browsers.

              If the developement of HTML5 goes as slow as the last years it will be never the best VM(IMO)

              IMO the Buzzword HTML5 is way over-hyped.




              90% of the world can view Flash Content and the rest, the iOS niche can download a native compiled App which based on the same base code...




              • 4. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?
                JaumeMussons Community Member

                I agree 99% with you daslicht. But not my customers. They "think" that HMTL 5 is something new and more advanced (WTF?). They simply say: "This site must work on Ipad, cause it uses modern technologies". This simple fact is what will kill flash on the web. I've recently seen important sites creating HTML5 games. If you have explorer, they simply say: "This site is created with modern technologies and you must upgrade your browser". Games that would have been created with flash a year ago.


                So, the change is now unstoppable. And is accelerating. We've got not as much time as we thought. The flash plugin will disappear from the net in few years. So, if FLEX as a framework wants to survive, HTML 5 output is a must. Maybe you need to limit some apis but we need to have the option. Otherwise i'm seeing myself moving to an HTML5 framework in few months. It's not my decision, my customers and the market force me. I love Flex, i love Flex productivity, it is milions of year ahead from any other javascript ********, but if i cannot output web apps that work on all browsers, i'm dead. My competitors will eat me. Is sad, but this is reality. Sometimes you must do thinks you don't want.


                Air is another thing. For desktop apps, there's a shining future, and nobody is blocking this technology, so AIR will grow. But flex, on the web, if it relies on flash player... where f***ed

                • 5. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?
                  daslicht Community Member

                  >So, the change is now unstoppable.


                  I dont think so.  We as developoers just have to make clear how much more we can do when using Flex, and that we can use the same code base for many devices and platforms.

                  What about offering special apps for iOS Devices ???


                  What kind of RIAs are you developing ? Any example online, i am curious , please?


                  The last weeks I have tried to recreate a Music Shop which I have developed in Flex with jQuery and HTML.

                  Anything is so tedious to develop in JS/HTML compared to Flex.

                  It startes with the IDE, IN HTML we dont have view states, and we could not even visually design things like Tabs ?!

                  I feel like coding blind :/


                  Have u already seen:





                  Edge looks quite promising, I hope they include multiple time lines (as in hype or catalyst) which would make things much much much more enjoyable.

                  • 6. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?
                    JaumeMussons Community Member

                    In fact I believe the power of Flash is not the player itself. The power lies on the actionscript language and the development tools. So if you can generate valid code for another kind of Virtual machine (Say an HTML5 browser), everything will be fine. You'll be able to keep developing with an amazing enviroment and language, and output to a universal runtime that will work on all internet browsers.


                    Html 5 is cool, but you can't professionally develop with this. Let's just relegate this language to bytecode. Use it only to run apps that are made with another advanced language and you'll get the perfect framework for 100 years.



                    Google is trying to do it with GWT and Dart. This is the path to follow. I hope that adobe listens and sees it clear, otherwise FLEX and AIR will be relegated to Desktop. This is not bad, but would be frustrating...


                    I can't see a future on the internet for the flash player, but i see it for the FLEX platform if things are well done. Please Adobe, do it right, there's no much time left.

                    • 7. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?
                      daslicht Community Member

                      GWRT is java based isnt it ? so it wont run on an iOS device either.




                      "Use the visual designer and Java code will be generated for you."




                      I agree with you , it would be awesome to be able to export html5/javascript apps with flex. but i doubt that this will coming.


                      What do you mean by "export with bytecode" ? How could a browser interprete bytecode ? It only can Interpret JavaScript as far as I know? A browser is just a interpreter not a VM, no ?

                      • 8. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?
                        JaumeMussons Community Member



                        Both GWT and Dart are languages that directly compile to javascript. GWT is java, but compiles to javascript, so it works on all browsers. Very limited at this moment, but very promising.


                        When talking about bytecode i think i didn't express myself correctly. I was saying that Javascript should be used as a Bytecode, so humans should not directly develop with it. The development part would be left to real languages like java or actionscript, and then compile the result to a "bytecode" that would be simply javascript. Use the HTML5 browsers simply as virtual machines, and javascript as a sort of bytecode that humans should not directly write.


                        Anyone that's writen something with javascript knows that is a toy. It should never be used on pro development...

                        • 9. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?
                          michael.orourke Community Member

                          We are definitely listening.


                          I think what many people don’t understand is that the Flash Player contains all the runtime for AS3, etc. If you want to do all this in HTML5 then there is going to be a large javascript runtime required which is a lot of overhead. That runtime won’t be compressed the way it effectively is in the Flash Player and neither will your HTML output or converted AS3 since HTML doesn’t support this like SWF does.

                          • 10. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?
                            JaumeMussons Community Member

                            But what about creating a subset of MXML and Actionscript that could be directly translated to javascript?


                            Just imagine:


                            We want to create a web app, that we know that can be done with HTML + Javascript. But we don't want to use that crap prehistoric rubbish. We want to use a strong typed language like flex, and work with oop, etc..


                            Let's create a new web app project with flex. As we want to create an app that could be perfectly made with HTML + javascript, we create (lets imagine) a FLEX HTML5 project. This kind of flex project would let the user develop the same way Flex does, but only allowing a subset of the language. On application release, the project would be translated to javascript. Not using the runtime, directly translated. Fast, easy and 100% open standards. Of course not all the flex features would be available, but i'm sure that we would have enought to create standard web apps, like small games, forms, shops, simple applications...


                            Or maybe you could add an option so we can mark a project as "HTML5 executable", so when trying to use some of the language features, errors are thrown. This way, we would have a project that compiles to swf, and can be also translated to javascript. All the options.


                            Using a javascript runtime is not a good idea for performance reasons. The translation must be direct. Convert one language to the other.


                            It's the same idea with adobe edge. Using a subset of the language to be able to do simple things, that today can be done with open standards, but are a nightmare to use.


                            I believe that this is possible. What do you think about this idea?

                            • 11. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?
                              daslicht Community Member

                              Sounds great lets hope something easier will come up. At the moment its just crap

                              • 12. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?
                                h.risley Community Member

                                I totally agree that it would be great to be able to compile simple Flex Applications to JS/HTML and surely this can't be beyond the realms?


                                @michael_orourkem  : Each of the Flex interface components could technically and visually be re-created in JS/HTML. While it is of course a bit of a ball-ache to do so due to cross browser issues, it is possible. Can you explain the complexities of this? Surely it should be possible for a parser to be written to output Flex interface components as tried and tested blocks of self contained JS/HTML code, backed up by a JavaScript engine of sorts? While I understand the runtime is compressed in the Flash Player/SWF, couldn't a small sub-set of components be developed?


                                Any thoughts would be appreciated?



                                • 13. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?
                                  daslicht Community Member

                                  >If you want to do all this in HTML5

                                  No need to do ALL, the barebones would be enough.


                                  Any news on FalconJS?

                                  • 14. Re: Wallaby & Flex ?
                                    Darkriderdesign Community Member

                                    I also agree with the concept of a Flex to HTML5 Canvas approach.


                                    If you look at HTML5 CANVAS


                                    then you look at MXML


                                    you can't help but think that at some point with Flex being open source there will be a MXML to HTML5 Canvas export in Flash Builder?