20 Replies Latest reply: May 15, 2012 5:16 AM by nathan@techniks RSS

    Dictionary-type running heads?

    dunaz Community Member

      Anyone know if there's a way to create running heads, dictionary-style, that change with the content on the page? I'm working on a directory (of people) that has heads at the top of each page with the first and last entries. There are well over 100 pages. If I could automate this it would cut down considerably on my time, as I'm sure you can imagine.

       

      GREP? A separate script? Please point me in the right direction.

       

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
          P Spier CommunityMVP

          Use a Running Head type variable. Read about them in the Help files.

           

          One word of caution: Variables are teated as a single character, so make sure there is enough space on your line in the frame to hold the longest string. If there is not, the text will bunch up on top of itself, not break to a new line.

          • 2. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
            dunaz Community Member

            THANKS. Can't wait to learn yet another way to leverage the power of InDesign!

            • 3. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
              dunaz Community Member

              Hey Peter--that works but... the entire first and last line shows up in the header (of course, because the whole line is the same paragraph style). So it has the person's first name, last name, tab, phone number. Can you suggest a way to only have it show the first and last name? Maybe some kind of GREP-ness? Could I create maybe a character style that would be nested in the paragraph style and then apply it only to the characters before the tab?

              Screen shot 2011-11-15 at 7.39.46 AM.png

              • 4. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                P Spier CommunityMVP

                Yes. Running header variables come in two flavors, paragraph style or character style. I'm pretty sure that applying the character style as an ordinary nested style will work (and it needn't contain any formatting information if you don't need to change from the parameters set in the paragraph style -- all you need is a name).

                • 5. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                  [Jongware] CommunityMVP

                  This is similar to this other recent thread (accidentally posted in the Scripting forum):

                   

                  Text Variables - Multiple Alphabetized Text sections per page, with Data Merge?
                  • 6. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                    dunaz Community Member

                    Thanks so much, Peter. I'll let you know how it all works out. Learning something new is always exciting, especially when it makes my job easier.

                     

                     

                    Jongware--thanks for link to the other post. I'll check that out as well.

                    • 7. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                      dunaz Community Member

                      Yep, worked like a charm. I can't believe now I don't have to change those cockamamie headers every time I change the order of the listings.  OMG, THANKS!

                      • 8. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                        dunazee

                        Okay, Peter (et. al.), I have a new challenge for you, along these same lines. The running head via text variable as described above works very well, EXCEPT for when you have a category that spans two pages. So, for that same document I've been working on, now we have lawyers arranged by specialty. So, if a specialty starts on one page and continues to the next, I need the two headers to say, for instance, AVIATION - CIVIL LITIGATION and CIVIL LITIGATION - CONSTRUCTION. Civil litigation starts on the left hand page and continues onto the right hand page.

                         

                        Can I make that happen with text variable, or do I need a script?

                         

                        THANKS!

                        • 9. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                          P Spier CommunityMVP

                          I'd have to see the actrual text to be able to tell you where to apply waht style, but in theory there's no problem. Each portion of that header should be a separate variable (with a dash and any spaces set as ordinary type in between) based on a Character style.

                          • 10. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                            dunazee Community Member

                            I can help you with that. Image attached.

                             

                            The right hand page is hand edited. The left hand page header is correct, but the right hand page, if using the "from" (character) variable as it was set up previously, would start with Civil Rights, instead of carrying over Civil Litigation from the previous page. Follow?

                            Screen shot 2011-11-21 at 11.34.47 AM.png

                            • 11. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                              P Spier CommunityMVP

                              Is civil litigation it's own heading/paragraph/something? It needs to be, and appears that it is. I said character styles above, but seein ghte pages, it looks like they would really be paragraph style based -- I thought initially that you needed to pull part of the text out of a longer paragraph.

                               

                              On the left you want <subcategory variable> - <main category variable> and on the right you want <main category variable> - <subcategory variable> entered in the header text frame, and you may want a separate frame from the areas of concentration text, but It's not clear to me why the one on the left is separate and the one on the right is not.

                              • 12. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                                dunaz Community Member

                                I mis-spoke. I did set these up with the Paragraph style variable, using the style for the gray bars.  BUT, the right hand page is typed in by hand to get it to show the correct header so that I could send a proof to the client that had correct info. Sorry for the confusion. See attached image.

                                 

                                Also, "2012 Areas of Concentration" is just typed onto the master page in its own text frame, no variables, since it doesn't change from page to page. The only variables would be the actual areas of concentration.

                                 

                                Am I making any sense, LOL?

                                 

                                Screen shot 2011-11-21 at 12.12.53 PM.png

                                • 13. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                                  P Spier CommunityMVP

                                  You are, but apparently I'm not.

                                   

                                  You need two different variables for this. One picks up the Civil Litigation, and the other picks up Aviation, etc, so those types of headings need to have styles with different names, even if they are otherwise identical. You enter the variables in the order and position you want them to appear, and they can be mixed in with other running text (that's their power) if you like. In this case I see no need for a separate frame for the fixed text. On the left page I'd enter the two variables, a right-indent tab, and the fixed text. On the right page I'd enter the fixed text, right-indent tab, then the two variables. It really is that simple.

                                  • 14. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                                    dunaz Community Member

                                    Now you are getting through my thick skull! Yes, I understand the two separate variables, one each for "use first" and "use last". What I'm trying to achieve is when the category spans across two pages, like Civil Litigation in the first image, starts on page 2, continues on page 3. On page 3, "Use First" applies Civil Rights, which is the first instance of that style on the page, instead of Civil Litigation, which is what I want it to say, which was the "use last" from the previous page.

                                     

                                    What would be cool is if I could tell it to "use previous last" unless the style is applied at the very top of the first column.

                                    • 15. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                                      P Spier CommunityMVP

                                      OK, TOTALLY misunderstood the structure there. I thought Civil Litigation was a higher order heading on the previous page, but now I get what you are saying. You want "yellow pages" style headers. I haven't got a printed dictionary in the office since the last time I packed up, but my recollection is that they use the first whole listing on the page and ID supposedly uses "dictionary style" running heads, not that it matters because the behavior you see is what is expected according to ID's rules.

                                       

                                      To do what you want, use the last category from the previous page when there is run-over, requires some sort of manual intervention. You can either remove the variable on a page-by-page basis and type in the correct heading, or yo can add an "invisible" heading at the top of the page to get picked up. Invisibles can be either text set with no fill, set to non-printing in the attributes, or on a whole special layer set to non-printing. I prefer one of the latter two choices, and I normally would use a local formatting override to also make that non-printing text red and very easy to see in layout view so you don't forget it's there.

                                      • 16. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                                        peter at knowhowpro Community Member

                                        dunaz wrote:

                                         

                                        Now you are getting through my thick skull! Yes, I understand the two separate variables, one each for "use first" and "use last". What I'm trying to achieve is when the category spans across two pages, like Civil Litigation in the first image, starts on page 2, continues on page 3. On page 3, "Use First" applies Civil Rights, which is the first instance of that style on the page, instead of Civil Litigation, which is what I want it to say, which was the "use last" from the previous page.

                                         

                                        What would be cool is if I could tell it to "use previous last" unless the style is applied at the very top of the first column.

                                        InDesign can't do this automatically.

                                         

                                        The commercial Power Headers plug-in from In-Tools can probably do it. Read about it here:

                                         

                                        http://in-tools.com/products/plugins/power-headers/

                                         

                                         

                                        HTH

                                         

                                         

                                        Regards,

                                         

                                         

                                        Peter

                                        _______________________

                                        Peter Gold

                                        KnowHow ProServices

                                        • 17. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                                          dunaz Community Member

                                          Hi Peter S.--I figured as much. Thanks for your patience!

                                           

                                          Peter G.: Thanks for the info. I will check that out.

                                          • 18. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                                            nathan@techniks Community Member

                                            Where are the two flavors? When I'm defining the Text Variables, the only styles to choose from are paragraph styles, even though I've set up a character style and applied it.

                                            • 19. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                                              P Spier CommunityMVP

                                              When you define the Running Header text variable there's a dropdown for variable Type at the top of the dialog. Choose Running Header (Character Style).

                                              • 20. Re: Dictionary-type running heads?
                                                nathan@techniks Community Member

                                                Ah! A beautiful thing. Thanks!