New upgrade policy for Adobe products

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We are excited to announce that membership to the Adobe Creative Cloud will be available in the first half of 2012 at a price of $49.99 per month for individuals and $69.99 per month per seat for workgroups, both for an annual plan.

For customers who prefer to remain on the current licensing model, we will continue to offer our individual point products and Adobe Creative Suite editions as perpetual licenses. With regards to upgrades, we are changing our policy for perpetual license customers. In order to qualify for upgrade pricing when CS6 releases, customers will need to be on the latest version of our software (either CS5 or CS5.5 editions). If our customers are not yet on those versions, we’re offering a 20% discount through December 31, 2011 which will qualify them for upgrade pricing when we release CS6.

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Pretty cool !  Only $600 per year at current rate for monthly individuals ( single machine )...

And to upgrade to new version for perpetual license ( which comes out every 18 months now ??? ) you need only the latest version.. after this coming Dec 31.

My only worry might be ... since all this requires even MORE internet connectivity ( and security re: verifying license and so on of various versions etc ) will there be problems when the platforms experience some internet difficulties.. I think for help files you need the internet now... but to need the internet for the whole kit and caboodle ( not to mention the speed of the internet nodes being good to go at all hours etc ).. that kinda worries me a bit... if you are working on pro stuff I mean... and you can't afford problems... the introduction of another " variable" of  ... what can be wrong with this ???? It isnt working !!! ....might prove a bit hard for customers to troubleshoot.

Otherwise, what a cool idea !

edit.. plus.. what a great savings for Adobe... reach many more customers without need to make physical product ( dvd, cd etc.. manuals, nothing ! )

The savings in cost could be passed onto R&D ( like maybe those recently fired 1200 adobe flash for mobile devices employees coulda kept working on something ELSE ? ! )

And to upgrade to new version for perpetual license ( which comes out every 18 months now ??? ) you need only the latest version.. after this coming Dec 31.

I read your statement to mean that the upgrade might be free. So there's no confusion:

"In order to qualify for upgrade pricing when CS6 releases, customers will need to be on the latest version of our software (either CS5 or CS5.5 editions)."

Since I am at CS5, it won't affect me, but this would suggest to me that the only way for a CS3 or CS4 owner to upgrade, if they don't get to CS5 before 12/31, would be to buy at full price.

yeah, thats what it is saying...if you dont have the immediate version before update you're outta luck

Something to note...the Adobe Creative Cloud includes EVERYTHING that is in the Master Collection (as stated by the OP link) so that means that for $600 per year, you've got....everything. The annual upgrade to just the Production Suite will run you about $600 - if you were to upgrade every time a new version comes out - and so I'd think for a lot of people, the cloud pricing would make a lot of sense, and change your software purchases from massive once-in-a-while, do-I-have-the-money-right-now decisions to a monthly plan (with no interest charges) and you will always be on the newest version of....everything.

Sounds like a pretty decent win-win. I have skipped 5.5, so I'm really only currently a bi-annual purchaser, so my costs will effectively double if I go with the cloud pricing. But, having it simply be a monthly charge makes the books a bit simpler for this small-time producer.

> yeah, thats what it is saying...if you dont have the immediate version before update you're outta luck

That's not correct. Upgrade pricing goes back two versions: CS5 or CS5.5 in this case.

BTW, don't skip over the currently running steep discount for upgrades, which is intended to help people to get up to a version from which the next upgrade can occur.

http://www.adobe.com/special/offers.html

 

That's not correct. Upgrade pricing goes back two versions: CS5 or CS5.5 in this case.

I thought Adobe treated the x.1 or x.5 releases as 'half versions' - with 'some improvements but not enough to make it a significant/major release' - I see this new upgrade policy as therefore needing the previous release (be it CS5, CS5.1 or CS5.5)  A view shared by an article on web4design blog:

http://www.web4design.co.uk/blog/?p=689

I think this change to the upgrade policy for the next release will prove to be a mistake for Adobe, giving users very little notice.  Previously I have tended to miss a version and upgrade every other version (Photoshop 7, CS2 and now CS4) which has meant upgrading in 2002, 2005 and 2008 - therefore every 3 years.  I know this would not make me one of Adobe's ideal customers, but I'm a customer none the less.  It was going to be my intention to upgrade at the next release according to my previous upgrade history, however Adobe has now taken this option away from me and many other users.  I'm not a heavy user so cannot justify getting an upgrade now and again when CS6 comes out - maybe if the change in policy was published earlier it wouldn't seem as such a bitter pill to swallow - at least I would feel I could get value out of version 5 if I knew I needed to have it......  Maybe it's time to ditch.

> I thought Adobe treated the x.1 or x.5 releases as 'half versions' - with 'some improvements but not enough to make it a significant/major release'

No, that's not how we see or treat these versions. CS5.5 was a major release.

So Adobe has now got the small businesses completely turned over.

No longer do they get the choice to use the product and upgrade at a sensible time

(Adobe upgrades are notoriously expensive - so its no surprise people version jump )

They are now being forced to upgrade now, pay out, and then do it all again in a few months time!

or pay Adobe a guaranteed amount of cash to use the software.

Having been an Adobe customer for years I am very unhappy with the new upgrade options.

They are certainly not customer centric or show anything more than a mercenary approach to the userbase.

Its now time to start looking at Apples cheaper and comparable products.

I actually prefer the $49/month plan if it is actually monthly...I don't mind making an annual commitment, but dropping $600 every single year is no different financially than what I currently do. Spacing out those payments would be nice for me, and I would think it would make Adobe's sales a little more consistent month-to-month. But finance isn't my specialty, so whatever it is, it is.

The main benefit with the new program will be that you get ALL of Adobe's current Master Collection software for the one price. I think a lot of people have failed to notice that part. You also get the mobile apps. In other words, for about the same price as just upgrading the Production Premium each year, you get EVERYTHING.

So you're one of these people who don't upgrade every single version? No problem...same here, I skipped CS5.5 and stuck with CS5 because it worked fine for me. Adobe is still going to be offering the traditional licensing, where you buy once and use it forever. I know the gripe there has to do with Adobe not continuing development on a version once the newest version is released, and that's unfortunate, but there's only so much a company can do. New versions do usually bring bug fixes that should have been there in the previous version, but they bring new functionality as well. It's a tradeoff, and it most severely impacts those customers that stick with an older version, so yes that's unfortunate, but those customers are not the majority of users out there, and Adobe cannot afford the resources and funds to support the minority of users as equally as the majority.

So an Indesign CS3 or Photoshop user who is happily doing layout / photo editing for a small business now has the option to

A) Pay out  £120 now, to upgrade to CS5.5, and no doubt pay out again when CS6 is released to keep in the program

B) Go over to paying Adobe $49 per month for ever, whilst loosing all the investment in previous versions of the app

(users of single apps really wont get the advantage of the suite)

And to top that - I really don't want to be held to ransom everytime I want to use the software. I want to choose when I upgrade and spend my money.

C) Don't pay the upgrade and pay over £1000 to purchase the full version  - well thats just not going to happen is it

And what's the bettings that $49 converted to UKP doesnt come to £31.50 this side of the pond!

You've made some assumptions that I'm not sure are correct, so I'll add my own assumptions and see if we can't muddy this up a little further.

As for the monthly cost of using a single application such as Photoshop, I think Adobe will probably have pricing to accomodate that. Again, if we're all just drawing conclusions here, I'd assume that there will be a different price for people needing just one of the applications.

The BIG story, of course, is the whole "pay one low price, get everything!" headline. That's the big news, and lots of people are intrigued by that. The smaller, less interesting details are yet to come, but the big announcement is the complete Adobe experience of having EVERYTHING and having it perpetully upgraded so long as you maintain your account.

As for losing investments in previous apps, I'm really not sure what you mean at all. Anyone who currently owns Adobe software owns those licenses, they don't disappear just because there's another purchasing option available. Likewise, you can probably assume as well that you will never be FORCED to upgrade under the new subscription model just because a new version is AVAILABLE. If you are the kind of facility that has to lock down an edit machine and not touch it for a year or two or three after installation, then the subscription type plans are probably not for you, which is why Adobe will continue to offer those single seat one-time-fee license options. Still, it's not like Adobe is going to PUSH a new upgrade to your machine without you requesting it or approving it. I imagine it would work just like everything does now on a computer, where you get a prompt like "A new version of Photoshop is available (v6.061.05). Would you like to upgrade at this time?"

All this talk about being held ransom and not having a choice about when to spend your money...it is all very emotional but not very sensical.

Generally speaking, it makes no sense to continue stating that a user MUST upgrade to CS5.5, then CS6, etc. Again, when you purchase the license, you have it, so the only "force" that would make you upgrade again is your own decision-making like "do I need these new features...or not?" It is beyond my understanding why people have to act like continuing to work on a piece of software and charging for those ongoing developments is some sort of crime.

As for the pricing as it relates to currency conversion, that problem is not even remotely in Adobe's hands, so if you are trying to make it out like that's Adobe's problem, then you've got no foot to stand on. Adobe is a United States corporation, headquartered in California (one of the 50 current states in the union) and so all of their pricing and advertising and everything else starts in American dollars. Once it gets converted into the local currency of the UK (or Botswana, or Thailand or Nigeria), there are a lot of other things at play such as VAT and shipping costs (in the case where a physical product is being purhcased).

I wish you the best of luck in determining your required future upgrade paths as they pertain to your particular business or hobby. I just think you are taking issue with something that has not yet even been fully laid out, nor has it been implemented, nor is it a "forced" policy. For many users, their purchasing choices will remain unchanged. For other users, there are now new options that better fit the way they'd prefer to spend their software dollar. As I said, good luck determining which is best for you.

Some comments are coming in, regarding the upgrade policies: http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/2011/archives/22903

The above is driected at Photoshop, from the president of the NAPP (National Association of Photoshop Professionals).

Hunt

If people don't need anything beyond Photoshop CS4 (or unless someone else develops and actual worthwhile competitor to Photoshop) then they don't need to upgrade anyway. It's not really a position that Adobe should be concerned about. People who are using the software frequently to make money are going to be able to justify the pricing one way or the other. If the last version they purchased was CS4, then they have gotten (or will have gotten, by next April) about 4 years of use out of their software. If they paid full price in 2008, then that averages about $250 a year (which is probably a lot less than they get paid for a single production in many cases). If they upgraded in 2008, then their cost ends up being more like $100 per year.

If a user is on one of the Creative suite packages, then their costs are spread out even more, and their per year costs per application are much less, even if they only use 2 or 3 of the apps in the Creative Suite.

I can appreciate the considerate wording from the NAPP president, which is exactly how these sorts of appeals ought to be made. But I think he is either grossly exaggerating or completely misjudging when he states that he fears many CS4 users will never upgrade Photoshop again.

And for the record, Adobe's prices have continued to drop steadily over the last 10 years, so anyone who upgrades only every 3 or 4 years has benefitted regardless. I just think it's much ado about nothing, especially when you consider - as the NAPP president stated - that we don't really even know the full details on Adobe's upgrade policy yet.

I don't agree with the "give us some notice" argument because Adobe has already given at LEAST 6 months notice (which is half of the product cycle) so yes, the people who might benefit the most would be folks that bought CS5.5 on the day it was announced, but they only benefitted by 6 months at the most versus those that choose to upgrade today.

Adobe has done a better job than they get credit for when it comes to giving advance notice of pricing and policy changes. I just get tired (have you noticed?) of the arguing and bickering when Adobe has contined to listen to customers and provide products we all need at prices that are NOT outrageous. Adobe is a big company, and really doesn't need little ol' me defending them, but I think I owe them a bit of my time and effort typing these defenses after the superb job they've done for the last however many years.

I'd assume that there will be a different price for people needing just one of the applications.

OK let see

As for losing investments in previous apps, I'm really not sure what you mean at all

People do upgrade to enable them to keep on the upgrade/discount path

As of Dec 31 anyone who has done that with CS4 will loose that option/investment.

you will never be FORCED to upgrade

You don't 'have to' but to keep with the program you 'will' have to upgrade

Pricing

Products always 'appears' to be more expensive in the UK and Europe compared to the US

I'd like to see a full breakdown of any differential when purchasing.

You've also got to look at it from the perspective of a user thats just shelled out over $800 upgrading the master package

when it looks like anyone can get access to that immediately for $49

Other

We've had some outages here with broadband - I'd really hate to have that stop me working

In the end - options are good. But this is looking more like Hobsons choice - only time will tell.

Christian,

I agree with you, as I have followed an almost unbroken upgrade path, since I picked up PS ver. 2.5, almost 20 years ago. Until CS2, I only skipped PS version 5.5, as I was not doing any Web work, way back then. The same with most of my other Adobe programs. The string did break, with CS 3, as I had upgraded to several of the suites, and could no longer upgrade just elements of those suites. As I was very comfortable with the capabilities of my programs, up through CS2, I skipped upgrading any of those suites, as I could not justify the additions, and also a few oft-used programs in them were having issues. When CS5 came out, I did the upgrades, and then to CS5.5. There were then reasons to do the upgrades, for me. Do not know what CS6 will offer, but I will look closely into it.

Now, that is just for me. While I cannot say how many of those 70k NAPP members feel the same way, it appears that the president of the organization feels differently, and has probably been hearing from many of those members. As I have not been closely monitoring my NAPP e-mails (usually mostly announcing training sessions around the world), I cannot comment on how many feel as Scott Kelby does, or as you and I do. I can only guess that Kelby's phone has been ringing "off the hook," but it could just be his personal feelings, put forth in that letter.

Being retired now, upgrades will probably get more scrutiny and justification, but that is just by me. Once, the only questions that I had were: can I work more quickly, can I add more value to the product for my clients, etc.. Now, I have to look a bit more closely, and justify more judiciously, but that is just life.

Time will tell.

Hunt

Other

We've had some outages here with broadband - I'd really hate to have that stop me working

That, and other similar concerns, will likely keep me from considering the Cloud/Subscription route. Though I am blessed with good Internet connectivity here, there HAVE been times, and if I were working on deadline, I would be very distressed. As it is, I have almost all of my programs on two machines, whether it's with the Adobe licenses, or purchased additional licenses, so if one machine dies, I can migrate the Project to the other, and still have two more, if I had to install & Activate on one of those. I could keep working.

The distribution connections may well improve to the point that they are bullet-proof, or nearly so. Until then, I will probably just pay more, and get my media.

However, for many, the subscriptions might well be a big money-saver, and highly convenient.

Hunt

I have also had occasional Internet problems (telco has determined it is their "backbone" feed line problem, and street in front of my house now has a bunch of lines and cryptic markings... and we received a postcard that "someday soon" they are going to dig a trench in the street to lay a new master feed line) so would NEVER buy software that required an Internet connection to run

Of course, CS5 completely meets my needs, and as a home hobbyist with NO plans to buy a new camera (Canon Vixia HFS100 does everything I need) I see no need to buy new software... CS5.5 doesn't offer anything **I** need, and I doubt CS6 will either

No one is saying that the Creative Suite applications will require an active Internet connection to run.

People who just purchased that $800 upgrade for the master collection get to use that effectively forever with not another time dropped. In 16 months, they will be able to upgrade to CS6 if they want, and have been no worse for the wear. Likewise, I would assume that most people who just now purchased CS5.5 would NOT be upgrading for another $800 in 6 months anyway (when CS6 comes out) so the whole discussion on that matter really falls apart. But even if they DID upgrade, it would cost them $800+$800 over the next 16 months as opposed to $800+$500 under the new plan. That's a savings of $300 in your scenario.

And I think there is some misunderstanding about the cloud aspect of all this. The cloud is referring to the fact that the applications will all be downloads under that licensing plan. It's not like you'll be editing in a web-based app. You will still download the software to your machine and it won't just suddenly quit on you as soon as you lose your internet connection.

There are some web-based apps and likely there still will be some, but that's not how the main apps will work, probably not ever, or at least many many years from now (like Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere, etc). So let's just get that misunderstanding out of the way.

> And I think there is some misunderstanding about the cloud aspect of all this. The cloud is referring to the fact that the applications will all be downloads under that licensing plan. It's not like you'll be editing in a web-based app. You will still download the software to your machine and it won't just suddenly quit on you as soon as you lose your internet connection.

 

There are some web-based apps and likely there still will be some, but that's not how the main apps will work, probably not ever, or at least many many years from now (like Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere, etc). So let's just get that misunderstanding out of the way.

I want to reinforce what Christian just said: The "cloud" part of all this has a few aspects, but there is absolutely no requirement that you have an active Internet connection to use applications like Premiere Pro, After Effects, and Photoshop. There may be more frequent updates, web-based applications, and other additional features and services that use an active Internet connection---but the existing Creative Suite applications are not somehow being "moved into the cloud".

this is such a can of worms I certainly hope adobe does a test market of this before making it a done deal.. which could be done while ( as asked for in the letter to adobe from that photoshop guy Hunt posted ) giving people more notice about plans to go this route.

I for one dont for a second think some problems WONT arise from not having an internet connection ( especially for pros working on location this would be a nightmare .. more than that it would probably get you fired and never work again in film production )... it could be some billing debacle ( license thing ) or simply some "handshake" thing to guarantee you are in fact licensed to use product -- instead of some pirate ....

its bad enough having help files online instead of on hard drive... this whole new thing, in such a short time, scares the heck out of any pro..

and here's why mostly.. if something "goes wrong" and you cant " work" ....if the program isnt working ....or something is just plain not working ....adding yet another "variable" to troubleshoot is a nightmare....

for whatever reason.

not only that...but in terms of the long haul and adobe employees... think about all those who will get laid off in the billing and marketing departments etc as this becomes more and more " automated "... less employees means less " support " for each other to maintain a decent retirement and healthcare insurance " pool ".  At first it's like, " Oh, this is OK, it doesnt effect ME ".. and years later it's like, " Oh, you mean there's no more retirement plan, health insurance, employee discount ??? "

None of this makes sense to me.

Adobe already has internet connectivity on the creative suite applications...it's a simple handshake, and verifies your software. It's not constantly hunting for an open connection. This isn't likely to change at all. In fact, the security is much better now if the apps are downloaded "from the cloud" so security is less of a concern. I suspect that you should see less internet-related issues, NOT more of them. Like Todd said, there is absolutely no requirement that you have to have an active internet connection. Absolutely. None. There you go.

Help files are installed on your computer by the way.

As you stated, it of course doesn't make sense to you because you are unnecessarily complicating the issue with a myriad of concerns which have no basis in reality. If you think more simply, you would understand. Adobe does not want and does not need 1,000 different complex hooks between everything. For crying out loud, they got rid of the hardware dongle a decade ago, how much more secure could you be than that? If they really wanted to put the screws into their customers, they'd never have changed that requirement.

Again, try to remove all the various unfounded concerns and understand that at the core, Adobe is simply moving forward with a much more modern, simple and straightforward approach to selling their software. In the longer term, it will save everybody money. As for all the support and automation problems your foresee, that's bordering on conspiracy theory so I cannot assist you with that.

Christian, thank you. I am so relieved there is no need for an internet connection for all this to work out to benefit everyone. Those pro houses who dont have internet connections and who have historically not used premiere pro editing program will probably consider this new option and increase adobe's market share of the pro world.

thanks !

I have to say... to be fair here... that " money" and cost of upgrades etc is not an issue with me.. when dealing with pro jobs.  I am just putting things in perspective when I say that as a key grip on some movie like batman ( not that I am the key grip.. but if I was ) my budget for "expendables " per week on the job ( wood, color correction gels, tape, beadboard, duvateen, showcard, foamcore, and so on ) would be about 10x the cost of the entire suite of adobe products and the computer ( hardware ) to do the edit on the scale you are concerned with ...

this is not some "conspiracy theory" concern... really.. its about products that aren't hooked at all into license and billing on the internet.. period... nobody needs the headache when filming in ( and doing DIT and doing DVD dailies immediately ) locations that frankly have no piss ant internet connection concerns...

but anyway, it is what it is here.. and thanks for the heads up about whats real.

I just reviewed my 'database" list..above...and realized I mispelled some items ( like nicopress )...etc.

also, to avoid confusion the "qty" column has nothing to do with price or rental.. the price and rental is for 1 item of said item...

I was sorta teaching myself asp.net web app stuff back when I did this thing... and the qty column in sql server was for inventory testing ... like as if this could be a useable app for equip vendors etc..

so this entry for example

is a qty of " 4 " in the inventory, but the price and rental is for 1 such item.. its not totalled ...etc.

just to get it straight.

in case someone wants to hire me to make a real app that we can sell to the world as a cool film makers " database ".

or you can just use it yourself.. do it.... make it work... cause the manufacturers and prices are what they are worldwide... you just ship the stuff to where you need it etc... how cool is THAT ???

PS... also.. the "vendor" field in the database table can be linked to html ( website of vendor etc ) soooo, the theory was that they would become subscribers ( money to pay for deployment of app ) and you could then basically order stuff straight from ' THEM" ...through that link.

oh well... it never worked out due to problems with my shopping cart code being too cumbersome ... cause basically you have to check items off and put qty down and do it fast ...and get bid etc... fast.. and doing it by fax and paper was actually ' FASTER"  than using the web page app...

I never did figure out how to program the thing (asp.net, sql , vb etc ) to be faster than doing it with paper and fax.

pps... one more note... re: database of equip etc... and links to manufacturers , vendors etc... my brother ( a programmer ) did say that with the cloud and ms silverlight this is a lot more " potentially" doable.. in case someone here has a brilliant idea to make it work.

imagine...you are a producer and moving around different countries to shoot a film and want a fast estimate re: cost of equip in those locations..

how cool is that ?? otherwise its the same old story.. production meetings with script, keys, everyone, going over scene by scene, making suggestions etc... then handing in "list" of stuff needed ( paper ) and then production has to actually get those numbers via fax and so on ( shipping costs etc ).. just to get a ballpark figure for cost.

this is one instance where internet is helpful potentially... but re: editing the product you must be joking ... if you think the cloud is a good idea ...hehe...ITS BEER THIRTY ...happy thanksgiving !

Todd,

Does the same hold for the Subscription license, which was part of my comment?

Hunt

I can't give away too many technical details of this future release, but I can reassure you that the activation process will allow for the use of means other than having the computer connected to the Internet.

Todd,

Thank you.

Happy Thanksgiving,

Hunt

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I can't give away too many technical details of this future release, but I can reassure you that the activation process will allow for the use of means other than having the computer connected to the Internet.

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thanks Todd.. like most programs of the past people depend on.. you pay for it, you get it installed and working properly as advertised, and you use it ....thereby concluding the inherent " promise" of both parties.

end of story.

People who just purchased that $800 upgrade for the master collection get to use that effectively forever with not another time dropped. In 16 months, they will be able to upgrade to CS6 if they want, and have been no worse for the wear. Likewise, I would assume that most people who just now purchased CS5.5 would NOT be upgrading for another $800 in 6 months anyway (when CS6 comes out) so the whole discussion on that matter really falls apart. But even if they DID upgrade, it would cost them $800+$800 over the next 16 months as opposed to $800+$500 under the new plan. That's a savings of $300 in your scenario.

Woooow - big mistake

Old policy - dont have to pay to go to 5.5 upgrade - go straight to version 6

thats a saving of $800!

New policy - 'forced' to upgrade if you want to continue to upgrade and own outright.

On a side note CJ - you are obviously an Adobe evangelist and nothing here is going to sway you from your path and no doubt you will write another reply to this so I'll just get a few more notes in this one as I don't want to carry on saying the same thing - Adobe should be listening to customers, not screwing every last penny they can out of them. Others see it different and that OK, but not me.

If the cloud option were a new option and the old upgrade path was maintained - I'd be happy. The big issue for me is the upgrade or loose it blunt force trauma approach to pull in revenue. Adobe we're pulled over the coals a while back over customer service and it looks like they've just found another way to upset thousands of users - I'm definitely one.

Bottom line, let's agree to disagree.