27 Replies Latest reply: Jan 9, 2012 11:23 AM by Astara_ RSS

    Cross Platfrom Forums

    Curt Y Community Member

      With the photoshop forum going cross platform others will surly follow.

       

      In many cases the platform will not make any difference in the answer.  However, problems with third party sofware and misc. hardware can make a difference.

       

      So, is is possible to have a couple of generic boxes added to each reply window the has a check mark for Mac or Windows?  May be less confusing.

        • 1. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
          Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

          Curt,

           

          I should expect the Photoshop forum to be the last one. I know there has been a great resistance when it has been suggested in the (distant) past.

           

          At least the Illustrator forums were merged when the fair forums were replaced by what we see here. Often you can see which side the OP is from by the terms used in the OP, such as keys; and everyone has become used to the differences, many posters using dual terms if in doubt.

           

          As to your imagining the possibility of customizing the forums, I am afraid you are imagining things.

          • 2. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
            Noel Carboni Community Member

            Curt Y wrote:

             

            With the photoshop forum going cross platform others will surly follow.

             

            Freudian slip ("surly").  I can imagine more arguments between Mac and PC people, myself.

             

            Personally I don't think it's a good move at all to consolidate them.  They're already pretty active - what's the gain?  Are there not enough experts on each side of the fence already?

             

            -Noel

            • 3. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
              Phillip Jones Community Member

              Noel I agree with you.  I think it would be better for all the product forums to separated by Platform.

               

              Every venue I've seen where platforms were mashed together there have always platform wars, usually Its PC folks dissing Mac, the people that use Mac's. making fun, threatening. Most Mac people they want to get along get there questions answered. Instead you get someone in your face, for nothing other than the fact you’re a Mac person.

               

              I admit in the old days 30 years ago I was hot and heavy into platform wars. I went to one newsgroup by  accident, That Felt if the people were physically close to me instead at the other end of an Internet connection, Iwould have been physically beaten with a 4x4 timber.  I apologize for wondering into the wrong group and immediately unsubscribed.

               

              Personally, I could care less what platform anyone uses. If they are satisfied with what they use so be it. Will I point out advantages to the Mac version to people that are dissatified. You bet. Will I point out missing features in Mac Version caused by biases of Adobe. You bet. But I am not going out of my way to Diss PC's. No.

              • 4. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                John Hawkinson CommunityMVP

                Do we have to have this conversation again?

                Every venue I've seen where platforms were mashed together there have always platform wars, usually Its PC folks dissing Mac, the people that use Mac's. making fun, threatening. Most Mac people they want to get along get there questions answered. Instead you get someone in your face, for nothing other than the fact you’re a Mac person.

                The InDesign forum works great being cross-platform, and we would lose a lot if they were split.

                • 5. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                  the_wine_snob CommunityMVP

                  Curt Y,

                   

                  This has been discussed at some length, in the PrPro CS5/5.5 Forum, and the general feeling has been that the general problems and also the solutions, are rather X-platform. In general observations, that seems to be about 90% correct, at least so far.

                   

                  While we DO see some Mac-specific questions, much IS X-platform.

                   

                  Now, as there are hundreds of FCP "switchers" in that forum, I would anticipate that a "FCP to PrPro" forum might be worthwhile, but most users, even the PC-only users, are able to help them.

                   

                  Now, many of those posts are along the lines of "Well, FCP does things THIS way. When will Adobe get with it, and create FCP 8 for us?" That sentiment is now starting to fade a bit.

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                    Community Member

                    Merging the Photoshop forum is not a new idea.  They had actually been merged at one time and it was an unmitigated disaster; that's why there were split.  Morons never learn from history.

                     

                    Participation in the merged Illustrator and InDesign forums fell precipitously after they were merged and it has never recovered.

                     

                    Never underestimate Adobe's boundless capacity to kill things like the Adobe Studio Exchange and the forums.  These forums are but a thin shadow of their former selves in the WebCrossing days.  

                     

                    The various discussions on techniques and ideas have just about died.  All there is now are gripes about bugs and shortcomings, plus the inevitable, almost embarrassing, rank-beginner questions that could have easily been resolved by looking them up in the Help files. 

                     

                    ____________

                    Wo Tai Lao Le

                    我太老了

                    • 7. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                      Community Member

                      Curt Y wrote:

                       

                      …So, is is possible to have a couple of generic boxes added to each reply window the has a check mark for Mac or Windows?…

                       

                      You can count on your average Joe to ignore such an option regularly.

                      • 8. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                        Phillip Jones Community Member

                        What adobe or Jive could do is when clicking start discusion require each person to specify:

                        Computer Mac, PC, Linux

                        System OSX, Windows7, XP, SUSE

                        Type Computer: Intel, PPC.

                         

                        And not, be able to start the question until filled out. Then the information is posted with the question.

                        Then that way PC people won't waste their effort answering for a Mac User. Or Mac Person won't try to answer on a PC question.

                         

                        THis is the only way it would work.

                        • 9. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                          Phillip Jones Community Member

                          Make it mandatory before they can proceed to ask question take the option out of the equation.

                          • 10. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                            D Fosse Community Member

                            Tai Lao wrote:

                             

                            Merging the Photoshop forum is not a new idea.  They had actually been merged at one time and it was an unmitigated disaster; that's why there were split.  Morons never learn from history.

                             

                            Participation in the merged Illustrator and InDesign forums fell precipitously after they were merged and it has never recovered.

                             

                            Never underestimate Adobe's boundless capacity to kill things like the Adobe Studio Exchange and the forums.  These forums are but a thin shadow of their former selves in the WebCrossing days.  

                             

                            The various discussions on techniques and ideas have just about died.  All there is now are gripes about bugs and shortcomings, plus the inevitable, almost embarrassing, rank-beginner questions that could have easily been resolved by looking them up in the Help files. 

                             

                            ____________

                            Wo Tai Lao Le

                            我太老了

                             

                            While I fully agree that the Web-X forums were more fun than the rather bland variety we have today - mostly because all the "status"- nonsense didn't get in the way - it's always tempting to think that everything was better before. Most days in Web-X were actually quite dull.

                             

                            In any case turnover seems to have increased dramatically. In Ps Win unanswered posts drop off the first page in a day or less, and that was unheard of back then. So something's obviously working right. The beginners need to go somewhere too.

                             

                            As for merged forums, I really don't see any downside except the fear of flame wars. But we're way beyond that now, aren't we?

                            • 11. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                              Community Member

                              D Fosse wrote:

                               

                              …As for merged forums, I really don't see any downside except the fear of flame wars. But we're way beyond that now, aren't we?

                               

                              Far from it.  Just wait and see.

                               

                               

                              D Fosse wrote:

                               

                              …While I fully agree that the Web-X forums were more fun than the rather bland variety we have today - mostly because all the "status"- nonsense didn't get in the way - it's always tempting to think that everything was better before. Most days in Web-X were actually quite dull…

                               

                              Only on the Windoze side.    The Photoshop Macintosh forum was a tremendous hub of activity.  The discussions were at a level of artistic, technical and theoretical sophistication never seen again in this mediocre Jive environment. 

                               

                               

                              D Fosse wrote:

                               

                              …In Ps Win unanswered posts drop off the first page in a day or less, and that was unheard of back then…

                               

                              That occurred several times per day in the Photoshop Macintosh forum, regularly.

                               

                              But, as I said before, "never underestimate Adobe's boundless capacity to kill things like the Adobe Studio Exchange and the forums" and "morons never learn from history".  We had gone through this before.  You guys will see it again.  It's only a matter of time.

                               

                               

                              ____________

                              Wo Tai Lao Le

                              我太老了

                              • 12. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                Community Member

                                Just to drive the point home a bit more assertively:  I'm not speculating or vainly predicting; I'm recounting facts the forums already witnessed.  Once more, they had actually been merged at one time and it was an unmitigated disaster; that's why there were split.

                                 

                                 

                                ____________

                                Wo Tai Lao Le

                                我太老了

                                • 13. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                  Community Member

                                  D Fosse wrote:

                                   

                                  … In Ps Win unanswered posts drop off the first page in a day or less…

                                   

                                  Whoa!  I misread that, holy cow! 

                                   

                                  Then, as phrased, that never happened in the Photoshop Macintosh WebCrossing forums, ever!  Posts did not go "unanswered" for more than three hours or less, ever!  What I thought you had typed and what I was commenting on was that if you didn't log in daily, then the posts unread by you would scroll off to the second page.

                                   

                                  What you type, "In Ps Win unanswered posts drop off the first page in a day or less," is a huge black eye for the Ps Win forum and a clear sign that knowledgeable contributors are not active enough!

                                   

                                   

                                  ____________

                                  Wo Tai Lao Le

                                  我太老了     

                                  • 14. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                    D Fosse Community Member

                                    I was a bit unclear, sorry. It's simply a measure of total traffic. Unless a new reply bumps the post up to the top, it falls off in a day.

                                     

                                    I didn't mean that questions went unanswered.

                                    • 15. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                      Community Member

                                      This is what the Ps Win forum looked like to me a couple of minutes ago:

                                       

                                      Adobe-Forums_-Forum_-Photoshop-Windows.jpg

                                      • 16. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                        Harbs. CommunityMVP

                                        Maybe after the forums are joined all those poor Windows users will get answered by the awesome Mac users...

                                        • 17. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                          Community Member

                                          A more realistic and likely scenario is that the number of Mac users will continue to dwindle at an accelerated rate.  The most valuable contributors on the Mac side have left, one way or another, for good.  The Photoshop Macintosh forum is like a ghost town already in comparison to the old days.

                                           

                                           

                                          ____________

                                          Wo Tai Lao Le

                                          我太老了     

                                          • 18. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                            Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                                            My experience in the now merged Illustrator forum has been as follows, in addition to what I said in the first post:

                                             

                                            Round the time the fair forums ended I spent all my time in this forum.

                                             

                                            When I returned to the merged version of my (main) native forum, Illustrator, I found that most posters were unknown to me, and there was a harsher tone, seemingly well established among them; within the first (half) year or so,  things settled in a friendlier way, and now the general attitude is much as I remember it from the days of the (unmerged) fair forums.

                                             

                                            There has never ever been any unfriendliness over Win/Mac use.

                                             

                                            The daily number of posts is about twice the number I was used to, maybe even a bit more. I have been at least twice as busy posting.

                                             

                                            Hardly any posts go unanswered; in some threads, the OP never returns or returns after a long time, but that is no hindrance for the native pursuing the matter way past the original issue.

                                             

                                            There is time for, and threads dedicated to, chat and friendly banter.

                                             

                                            I came from the former Win tribe, and lost many friends over the change because they simply stopped posting; some have returned, some of those only posting from time to time. My impression has been that those from the former Mac tribe just carried on in greater numbers.

                                             

                                            I am fully aware that this experience is very specific and may be fundamentally different from what may be seen in other forums.

                                            • 19. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                              Phillip Jones Community Member

                                              No Not really Flame wars are alive and well. It's more one sided Than in days past. Mac people for the most part do not care one way or another. Because with Intel Processors and Virtual Machines we can now run Linux, Unix, Window7 and Mac OS separately or at the same time. It’s a non-issue for us.  Doesn't mean we Mac users are superior, Nor does it mean PC people are. Its just like being democrat or republican. People tend to think their way is better. Or being a Jew or Christian, Hindu or Muslim.

                                               

                                              There will always be arguments.

                                               

                                              But I still see it all the time.

                                               

                                              The only way for it work correctly and not cause a rift. when you click Start a question you have to answer the following questions or you can not continue:

                                              Type Computer, Processor, Operating System and version of system.

                                               

                                              Then PC people won't have to bother with answering Mac Questions, or Linux, or Unix. Mac People won't have to answer PC, Linux, Or UNIX. and so on.

                                              • 20. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                                D Fosse Community Member

                                                Tai Lao wrote:

                                                 

                                                This is what the Ps Win forum looked like to me a couple of minutes ago:

                                                This is after the weekend. Things are always slow on weekends.

                                                 

                                                But in fact this could be a legitimate concern for Mac users. I visit the Mac forum regularly, always have (and post there when I have something to say), and the activity level there has always been a little lower, whatever the reason for that may be. So even though Mac/Win user base is roughly 50/50, a merged forum could have a slight Windows bias.

                                                 

                                                Then again, I think that would be outweighed by the platform-indifferent questions seeing a larger pool of potential answerers.

                                                • 21. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                                  D Fosse Community Member

                                                  Jacob Bugge wrote

                                                  This describes my expectations for the merged Ps forum well.

                                                  • 22. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                                    Community Member

                                                    D Fosse wrote:

                                                     

                                                    …I visit the Mac forum regularly, always have (and post there when I have something to say), and the activity level there has always been a little lower, whatever the reason for that may be…

                                                     

                                                    < ghost of flame war > Less totally clueless beginners on the Mac forums?  < /ghost of flame war

                                                    • 23. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                                      D Fosse Community Member

                                                      LOL, I saw that coming...

                                                      • 24. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                                        acresofgreen Community Member

                                                        Tai Lao wrote:

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        The various discussions on techniques and ideas have just about died.  All there is now are gripes about bugs and shortcomings, plus the inevitable, almost embarrassing, rank-beginner questions that could have easily been resolved by looking them up in the Help files. 

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        I didn't experience the forums as they used to be before the migration to Jive, and I don't know what great discussions on techniques used to take place, but people who want those discussions to come back just have to initiate them.  If quality discussions are taking place, qualified people will find them and join in.  It wouldn't hurt for the regular users to use social media to promote the forums, either.

                                                         

                                                        It can be frustrating when beginners know too little to even ask their questions in an understandable way, but the help files are only useful if you know what you should be looking up.  They are not structured for learning in my opinion. 

                                                         

                                                        The good news is that with the great new upgrade policy and customer-friendly international pricing, Adobe will be attracting millions and millions of new customers who will all come to the forums.  There will be so many that Adobe will have to split the forum into separate forums for beginners, intermediates and experts.  That will solve your current frustration with beginner postings and lack of expert discussions.

                                                        • 25. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                                          Curt Y Community Member

                                                          I was around in the "old days" and the discussions, in at least the Photoshop forum, were on are a different deeper level. 

                                                           

                                                          There was a number of players that were very knowledgeable and would type up long dissertations on why things worked they way they did, or explain new techniques on how to do a procedure.  Many of those people quit, or were booted out of the forum due to disagreements with how Jive works, or have just passed away.

                                                           

                                                          Now it seems like it is "just answer the question".  Rarely is there a discussion on how else to accomplish the task.  It alternatives are offered, they do not spur much discussion.

                                                          • 26. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                                            Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                                                            Curt, and others,

                                                             

                                                            I believe there are genuine differences between forums, but here are a few links just to show how a thread in the merged Illustrator forum may be (in all but one the posters are from both former Win and Mac tribes, mostly the latter, I think; and as you can see the continued presence of the OP is far from necessary):

                                                             

                                                            http://forums.adobe.com/message/4061199

                                                            (4 helpers)

                                                             

                                                            http://forums.adobe.com/message/4038527

                                                            (5 helpers)

                                                             

                                                            http://forums.adobe.com/message/3629270

                                                            (9 helpers)

                                                             

                                                            http://forums.adobe.com/message/2005833

                                                            (pastime with 9  participants)

                                                             

                                                            http://forums.adobe.com/message/3550083

                                                            (4 helpers)

                                                             

                                                            http://forums.adobe.com/message/4061199

                                                            (and one of the longer answers, but not the longest)

                                                            • 27. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                                              D Fosse Community Member

                                                              Curt Y wrote:

                                                               

                                                              I was around in the "old days" and the discussions, in at least the Photoshop forum, were on are a different deeper level.

                                                              So was I. I think this is generally true, but not because all the people with deep knowledge left. Some did, but others took their place.

                                                               

                                                              I think it has to do with the present high turnover more than anything else - and it is much higher than it used to be. New questions come in at such a fast rate that there is simply no time to go in-depth, unless you can spend all your time here.

                                                               

                                                              That said, the points and the salami slices and all that didn't actually help. Although most people don't care about that nonsense, enough did to change the tone of the proceedings. There was suddenly a rush to get there first, and that change was very obvious to all who had been around for a while.

                                                               

                                                              Anyway, off to do the Christmas thing...have a nice one everybody.

                                                              • 28. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                                                Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                                                                I can see that there are differences between forums.

                                                                 

                                                                In the days of the fair forums, long before anyone had heard of points, there was a rush be be first, either with a joke or an answer, the latter just for the sport of it.

                                                                 

                                                                I hope everyone will have a nice evening. It is a quarter past nine (PM) over here.

                                                                • 29. Re: Cross Platfrom Forums
                                                                  Astara_ Community Member

                                                                  Tai Lao wrote:

                                                                   

                                                                  Merging the Photoshop forum is not a new idea.  They had actually been merged at one time and it was an unmitigated disaster; that's why there were split.  Morons never learn from history.

                                                                   

                                                                  Participation in the merged Illustrator and InDesign forums fell precipitously after they were merged and it has never recovered.

                                                                  Of all the Mac, people posting so far, overall, your attitudes and and mental framework seem most similar to mine -- more so than an average Pc User's as well. As far as world view/poltical view, we might find ourselves agreeing, or arguing for the sake of arguing, but not really disagreeing on principles.

                                                                  Have you given thought to the possibility that reduced traffic and having things NOT recover, might be a desired goal?

                                                                  Something to think about....