something weird happened to this thread..
anyway..i went back to the drawing board and discovered the "earth.ttf " i installed and used was screwed up...surfaces of font werent acting right with lighting in maya etc...and so uninstalled and installed new font..
can see difference in style with pic...but more importantly I can SEE huge diff in maya...soooo, thats one problem fixed...
now maybe I can go back to the 720p export from maya and limit background motion in cs3... and do OK...
( as ray on pbs would say, " one can only hope one gets one's product " )
makes me shiver listening to him ( sorry ray )
bottom one is new font, top is old one...how bizarre ! what a huge diff in quality ! ( you cant see but I can in maya ).. and here you see diff in how top one slants down and to the right etc ??? is weird isnt it ??
its amazing how stable maya is...
im now 'rendering' my latest test of title seq stuff at 720p on mouse computer ( 240 frames @ 30fps production quality ).. and is taking quite a while..but I am now multi-tasking.. how cool is that ? )
anyway, lord knows what it will look like when done... as I cant see it until its done ( the lighting effects etc - finished product from that stage )
amazingly .. it used to take a whole NIGHT to render just ONE frame this size about 10 years ago...so progress is definitely happenin.
meantime...i got pbs on tv in background..and the news hour is over and 'intelligence squared ' just started.
the debate tonight is " would the world be better off without religion '.
wow.. thats an eye opener right off the bat. I might have framed the debate differently.. by asking , " would civil government be more effective without religion ".. but the producers are apparently going for the big bang for the buck ( dummy things down and get into the lowest common denominator right away ... atheism vs whatever .. and all those other words that mean, " oh , I'm spiritual but dont believe in institutions " and " oh, I believe in SOMETHING, but why do so many people fight each other over their religions ? "
so on and so on.
So basically, in the past 1000 years, we went from govt and society based on 'god elected rulers ( Kings and Queens ) and medieval system of serfs and so on to parliments and democracy variations ( and economic systems evolving right alongside ).. to now a debate about " is the world better off without religion "...
the question alone frames the 'debate' ( rhetoric which is cool in its real purpose ( to see both sides of some question and argue for or against ...is a rational exercise of human mind ).
but this is just too much for me.. why not say , " is civil govt more effective without religion ' instead ?
and then argue the various govts around the world which have bent over backwards to separate church and state , etc.. and bring things up to date ??
well... at least this is better than antiques roadshow which turns my stomach ...
now that I think about it.. it is the " religion" stuff that kinda put a crimp in my finishing some of the robodog space alien " story" ...when I was writing it like the wind... ( it was done fast, up to that point ... and I kinda stuttered at the point where some kid asked robodog if there was a god .
duh.... what to say ??
sooo, i spent about a year thinking about it and wondering how to work that out.. and finally got to a resolution in my head, but since then I've not had the time and 'mood' or whatever you call it.. to finish the writing part... in reality ( is done in head, but gotta write it down )...
then that first draft has to go thru some stuff ( beef up characters and their substance ) .. and then do the script ( which means introducing yet MORE characters and scenes to basically get what people are " thinking" into the movie as action and dialogue.)
no big deal, but just a lot of work.
anyway... be that as it may... i've now done yet another test of title stuff and had to do a wmv export to get it into youtube to show on web ( avi and mov ( compression = 'none' and apple animation respectively) is not a happening thing with youtube ( file sizes etc too much for youtube )).
white flash in beginning needs a soundFX ( like.. some sound that happens when robodog text comes into picture )
whatever... is then a matter of more titles with more background images of universe getting more and more pin-pointed to " earth " ..a series of stuff .. got that worked out now too... so am moving right along.
notice how text needs to be moving ( animated ) for it to work compared to second link ( which uses the next background image in series.. the single galaxy type thing.. then theres a pic of about 5 galaxies.. then theres a pic of saturn.. then theres a pic of earth... in the background image series )...
newest test.. followed by old test with the 'next' background image..
this aint easy !
ITS BEER THIRTY , YIPEE !
below is just the background image thats gonna get used.
another thing.. re: this project.. title seq..
is the cc and stuff.. which is going on in another thread around here ...
I havnt even looked at the waveforms yet etc on this stuff ...and only did some basic levels adj so far ( i know that background dark blue stuff is gonna need some serious work at some point .. not to mention the text layer...
how cool is THAT ??? I can test things and learn things all in the same forum group ??
happy holidays you all..
lets save planet earth ! its our home !
update.. on title sequence...
I tried for about 3 hours to find out something re: a maya thing I wanted to do.. and couldnt find the info..and all my efforts with program to that particular " thing " failed... so I got my first deviation from my intended project.. eg. instead of solving problem I compromised... hence the " OINK " sound.... cause I am a pig for not solving the problem.
Ann solved my export frame with alpha, thank God, so that worked out OK...and now I'm exporting the next animated text maya thing...takes time to do 240 frames on mouse computer.
my computer is saying , " EEEEK ! " like a mouse. This is a regular zoo here... between me oinking and computer eeeking...
then the next title things - I mean the ones AFTER THIS ONE ( animated text from maya ) will use layers of different exports from there... which should show me pretty much once and for all if the mouse and cs3 can handle a title sequence ... at 720p.
Well, its not so much cs3 as the 32bit thing and ram limitation etc.
I have my doubts.
all in all I am pretty impressed with cs3 and maya so far. how about them apples ?
ok.. finished ( more or less ) 2nd part of title thing..and this time used reference monitor and some level adjustments and stuff that I didnt use before ( which mighta been a mistake cause it sorta just flattened stuff out and i dont have good monitors and exports do weird things etc )
which in a nutshell means, I have less control over what I see and what i get than i would like at this point.
but anyway, the whole purpose of this is to do project that makes me learn the process and workflow, and that seems to be working out ok.
basically diff sequences ( cs3) for each 'part' and then at end will make new seq with all parts and do transitions, add music and sound and finalize it somehow... i think i have 3 more parts to go for this project....
problems: .. animated text thats shiny is only effective while moving... otherwise you have to then separate it from background more and play with that stuff.
plus.. i wanted to have 3 separate "words" ( animated text ) floating into the 2nd part.. " saving" and "planet" and "earth" ... but ran into some probs learning how to do that in maya and not spend a week doing it..but now I know how to work that out so might just re-do this 2nd part altogether as originally planned ( instead of being pig and giving up like this time )
meantime, the workflow and folders and organization of assets is going OK... and mouse computer isnt gasping like a dying duck yet...
YIPEE ! PLUS ITS NOW BEER THIRTY !
part 1 and maybe sorta temporarily at least part 2
anybody with great advice re: separating text from background and so on.. feel free to blurt out your feelings.. except Jim ... i already said i dont have cc stuff here ( dont beat me up ! )
hehe.. sorry jim.. i crack myself up sometimes ...
i can maybe add a touch of gaussian blur at very end frames to help separate stuff.. will see on the final sequence ...
its amazing how critical this stuff becomes.. isnt it ?.. and then I think goint into AE with this later would add a lot too.
no end to the cool stuff !
Personal Projects can be hell. I am still struggling with an Intro-Title sequence, and am no closer today, than I was 6 mos. ago. I'm not even bringing a program, like Maya into the mix either.
Hang in there, be patient, and with some work, and experimenting, you WILL hit on what you envision. Before bed, tonight, or tomorrow night, spend some quiet time thinking about the Title sequence, just before sleep. Let you mind come upon rest, with that on your mind - nothing deep - just some thinking. Dream about it, and when you awaken, write it down! Sounds rather metaphysical, but often I got some of my best ideas, just dreaming about a problem. Even if I did not remember the dreams specifically, I often woke up with a solution. Write it down immediately.
Good luck, and sleep well - Merry Christmas
Personal Projects can be hell.
is only way to learn though. IMO. cause you cant cop out and compromise.. you have to keep at it till you do what you wanted. LOL... im my own worst enemy re: getting what I want...even if it sucks in the end, at least I got what I imagined.. and can move on.
that part 2 thing is a compromise.. but during the process of doing it I figured out how to make it work as separate " words" .. i just have to do 3 projects in maya ( one for each word ) and export those, and layer it in cs3.
otherwise I have to jump thru hoops that would take even more time... make one maya project that has the 3 separate words in the same project.. dont wanna do that... stupid program... makes it hard to create stuff and then copy objects and duplicate without it becoming a child to the parent etc etc.... so my new way ( in my head now ) will work out ok i think... and take less time )
in the end im not happy with the text animation.. insomuch as its only effective while animated. once it lands it sucks... so thats the next project I guess... is doing this a totally different way.
meantime, you wouldnt believe all the STUFF to deal with maya .. yikes ! haha... thank gawd I can play around with it now and enjoy it though... I love this stuff ( editing in general and imagining things and trying to make that happen ). how cool is THAT ?? !
thanks for helping out and support.. you are one in a million .
now all you have to do is learn how to herd worms on the trout ranch !
( better than herding snakes ! )
Dang, you're still up! What is it, 3:00AM tomorrow there? Oh wait, you don't live down near ShooterNZ (glad to see Craig back in these environs - missed that kiwi humor), so it's only 10:00PM. Well, take that dream advice, and see how it goes. I keep trying that, but for some reason, my one personal Project is just not cooperating. Think that I am just too close to it, and the scars have not healed yet.
PS - I would start the RoboDog "series" with about "Chapter 3," so you can then go back and sell the prequle episodes, some years later...
its only 9pm here..
I think youre right.. shooter is in another day.
main thing is to keep working and doing cool stuff.. so thats my xmas wish for everyone.. keep doing cool stuff !
From: Bill Hunt
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 9:00 PM
Re: ROBODOG THE MOVIE !
created by Bill Hunt in Video Lounge - View the full discussion
I was thinking about it the other night.. and the title seq for robodog movie.. and started to get this idea.. that like.. there's no sound at all.. for the first couple titles...( is silent in space ).
THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN theres an insert of movie ( dave driving crazy on xpressway to work , horns blaring, tires screeching, people yelling etc )
THEN back to space ( silence ) and a few more credits.
THEN back to earth.. ( YELLING AND SCREAMING ON ROAD TO WORK )
( not dave by the way.. he is oblivious to whats going on around him.. its just his normal way of driving to work fast )... as per story ...
I guess he has his windows of car up and is listening to the radio etc.. leaving some chaos in his wake.
soooo, as I think about the credit thing .. this other stuff creeps in at night ( like you said )... and now it sorta turns into a trailer sorta...
anyway, meantime, I gotta re-do the 2nd title part as separate words cause it aint working the way it is now.. and that will take a day at least ( tomorrow maybe )... and I will move on.
I dont know enough people and / or make the insert shots happen the way I see it in my head ( dave driving to work ). Its expensive.. close xpressway for a mile or so.. get stunt drivers and so on.. get ultimate arm etc and camera and hire people... it just goes on and on.. the expense and so on... permits, etc.
I can do some on green screen ( thank gawd ) but still... you gotta then have stage and so on.
the trick for me is to keep working despite my dreams and notes at night etc.. just keep working and learning etc... and get satisfaction that some of THAT will actually help me help someone else down the road too... like... I get it cause I went to that editing space etc .. so when on set I can add more value for them.
meantime.. its beer thirty ! yipee !
Even if I did not remember the dreams specifically, I often woke up with a solution. Write it down immediately.
well, that happened last night.. got idea about how to do the maya stuff the way I want.. and it worked ! am rendering now... takes a while ( 240 frames ) on mouse.
you wouldnt believe how SIMPLE it was to do what I wanted.. geez.. live and learn.
so now I can go back to that last thing done in cs3, replace the numbered psd stuff and tweak it.. and see how it looks..
almost time for giant / jet game.. that oughta be ugly !
done with 2nd part...must fade out background image faster and start transistion to next background image ( darker..better separation for text ) when these words land..
cant really do the background images right until i stick all these parts im gonna make into the final roughcut sequence...
think I'll do one more "part" ( another 240 frames ).. and put on a test sequence all 3 parts and see how mouse acts...
i do have to render work area to see this smoothly on my computer ( each part ).
this is a lot of work believe it or not...the time sorta adds up..specially maya exports...but you know... years ago it took all night to render 1 single frame from raydream designer... yes, im not kidding...( at 300dpi psd with mask channels and lots of ray tracing ).. so its amazing to do 240 frames at about 40 secs per frame. kinda amazing to say the least.
this sucks..but will have to do for now...til I get on one timeline and tweak everything...
OK.. new deal... was so unhappy with last part.. had to keep working on it..
geez.. is like an addiction or something... cant get away from it..
jet giant game on now... so listening while working...
this is newest ..of 2nd part...
might be OK...
wow.. Chuck.. that was a very cool trailer ! thanks !
I read those books about 100 x over the years probably.. so it is so cool to see a real movie done about them ( hobbit and trilogy ).. i hope some other books he did later will also be done ( scimirilion ?? sp? )..
anyway, at first I thought making hobbit into 2 movies sucked but maybe it will be ok... not done just to milk the audience so to speak.. just do a nice job of it... after all, i havent tried to write a script for it and have no clue how long it would end up being if I stayed true to the story.
thanks for showing me the trailer.. now i have something to look forward to !
OH>. that reminds me.. i could DO those titles you saw in trailer above the maps... with my mouse !!! really !
amazing ! very cool to see what can be done with computers at home etc.
i couldnt rest with the last part of title thing.. ( while listening to giants kick jets *** ).. so i did a roughcut seq of the 2 parts.. and sent link to my brother in fla to see if he can put some soundfx and music to the thing.... see what happens. I think Bill H is also looking in his library for sounds of space for me...( bill has helped me a LOT on several projects over the past couple years learning this stuff ).
once i get the pace from soundtrack down better I can tweak and finish things up etc.. hopefully..
the more beers i drink the better it looks.. especially if i squint from across the room.. and so on.
i know it still sucks the way it is but music etc ( soundtrack) will help and final edit etc to tweak might make it ok.. to this point in time.
( praying )
I like it for what it is.. the "solving problems" end of it..you know.. as a project that focuses me the learning stuff...
but as a real title thing it needs work I think...
Been thinking of " next " step in this ... might be to start modeling the spaceship(s) that end up in orbit...
that would be interesting.. and also there's robodog ... might be able to get into modeling him...though that might be beyond my ability with programs I have...as he needs to be able to move like fluid sorta...like mercury ??
must think about it another day and then get back to work...
my first " nested" sequence ever... interesting .. makes some things way easier... !!!
stole some music for beginning to test... am working on getting original stuff that can go throughout the sequence... some titles.. you know.. the 'test' so i learn this stuff..
nested thing worked out cool...
OK... got the original music /soundfx from brother in FLA...here it is...
moving on...have to figure out what to do now.. re: live footage and mix titles with that...etc...
considering its wmv export from cs3 of 1280x720 its not bad...IMO.. I like the military drums being associated with " snakes " in the forum...thats kinda " different "....hehe...
hehe.. some images drums evoke with snakes in forum production...
a) marching snakes
b) soldier snakes
c) military snakes
HAPPY NEW YEAR !
( burp, scuse me ) ITS BEER THIRTY , YIPEE ! )
GO BRONCOS, BUCK BUCK BUCK ! ( saw some beautiful chic yell that in a posh place around the new Colfax ave larimer square area in the 70's in Denver and kick up her heels while she shrieked ( red high heel shoes ! ) and its been my Bronco cheer ever since... nobody could do it better than that wild cowgirl in satin ! )
We were art students .. impressionable ....
===== anyway, back to the subject.. re: snakes that are military or soldiers etc.... I found out a minute ago that ( this was done by pretending I was a snake on parade ... as an author of incomplete novels and a dreamer with incomplete dreams .... ) that SNAKES HAVE NO SHOULDERS !
You CAN NOT go to " shoulder arms " as a snake...cause , guess what?? YES.. you have NO SHOULDERS !
Well now, Denver has the "blue bronco of death" right at the entrance to DIA... but that is all part of a much larger conspiracy theory, that I will not go into, however it did figure into a small part of one of Brad Thor's novels.
Probably not as much fun as a tipsy cowgirl in red, high-heel boots - sort of like Lady Gaga meets Dorothy... "there's no place like home... go Broncos, buck, buck buck."
BTW, what was Lady Gaga supposed to be, when she started her set last night, and oil spill?
I also expected Bloomie to come out dressed like Little Orphan Annie and sing, The Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow. He missed a golden opportunity. Now, we caught New Year in Sydney, and then got home in time to see NYC, and it's a good thing, as we crashed before it came to AZ.
One problem with snakes in the military is that they do not have shoulders for epulets. Military uniforms look really odd on them. I mean, imagine someone like Gaddafi (choose your spelling) in his full generalisimo uniform, if he was a snake.
hehe... yeah, that girl in the cowgirl boots was pretty wrecked..and being in a larimer square fancy place everyone had " O " for a mouth afterward ! Fancy people often think they need to act like English Aristocrats .... either that or they go completely the other way and act like Paris Hilton ...
I dont know about lady gaga.. that was truly bizarre.. I think oil spill " glob of sludge " is pretty accurate description.. LOL...
they played auld lang syne (sp? ) for at least 30 secs this time before blasting out " NY NY " by blue eyes.. which is a slight improvement at least... when are they gonna realize new years has nothing to do with NY ? Idiots.
Yeah, bloomberg shoulda at least been one of the male dancers with lady gaga...in leather and g string... youre right.. he missed a big op.
imagine someone like Gaddafi (choose your spelling) in his full generalisimo uniform, if he was a snake.
I thought he WAS a snake...but with artificial shoulder pads etc.. wasnt he in some kinda snake den when found ?
I enjoy NYC, and as watching NYE from there, gets me into bed earlier (more important, at my advanced age), I do watch that scene. After all, if I stay up until Midnight here (AZ), I would ONLY get to see a Tortilla Chip drop (Fiesta Bowl). Heck, even my neighbors shot off all of their fireworks, when the NYC "ball" dropped. Even the younger crowd was doing something else, come time to drop the Tortilla Chip in Tempe!!!!! This was fine with me, as my younger Bulldog hates fireworks, even if we give her a "calming cookie." Having the firecrackers go off at 10:00PM, just after we got back from the airport, was not a bad thing.
Now, if Bloomie was following his calling, he'd have been a dancer in Nancy Pelosi's SF NYE Spectacular, maybe as a biker/cowboy, wearing only black leather chaps and vest?
At first blush, I thought that Lady Gaga was supposed to be a black octopus, but then from most camera angles, I realized that I was wrong, but could not tell WHAT she was supposed to be. Sometimes, I think that the various coreographers need to furnish subtitles on what we are seeing. I keep thinking back to the 1992 Olympics in Albertville. The opening ceremony featured giant, dancing sperm. Yes, subtitles would have been nice. I would have appreciated Lady Gaga's coreographer using them.
dancing sperms... wow.. that brings back memories....
I wasnt on a patio with shorts and cigars ...but I guess at that point it doesnt matter. The dog brought me back to earth re: fantasy ... and maybe wishing I was at some after hours joint instead of " home ".
Home is cool.
I think that's what we're missing here with the general 'entertainment' biz.... home. Time to calm down and stop with the redbull drinks and the ultimate fighting ******** ... get back to reality a little bit.
not you... but the kids... they are dealing with some ugly stuff.. like no jobs and no future and lack of caring from adults... as the adults are working ( both of em ) now... and the school cant be surragate parents.
I grew up with mom as a housewife.. she didnt think much of herself ( womens lib and all that ). She is the last of the 'family' in the great US of A... made us do our homework before playing after school...before tv time... made us eat our stupid brussel sprouts ... etc ( though I gave quite a few to the dog under the table when able )
good ol mom... she is now in her late 80's.. and is bionic. She has more aritfiicial parts than lee majors.
if she walks through an airport she sets off everything and one look from her would ( she is from south bronx ) make the TSA re-evaluate their methods of security bullet points.
ps.. oh.. the point of my post.. which I almost forgot due to beer thirty etc...
we should try IMO to get this lounge area into a focus that actually makes " product" a little more.. like ...make movies etc ?? commercials ? industrials ?
whatever... some sorta direction where.... now we know where were at... we help really make some stuff for someone..
not for me etc.. I dont give a hoot.. re: money etc... but help others do stuff. how can we do that ?? use the internet and forums and all these cool tools..and actually help someone with talent etc make some product and do well ?? thats what would be cool..
and IMO snakes would play a big part in that....and bulldogs of course...
Not a bad logo!
Maybe I'll try to license that from the creator. Might need a few minor change, but as the "trout ranch" is in New Mexico, I can see good elements to it. Right now, the logo is a teepee. While there are several Native American tribes in the area, they most often lived in adobe houses, or up north a bit, in cliff houses, where the teepee was most often employed by the Plains Indians. Still, that logo came with the property, when cousin purchased it 18 years ago. I redid it, in Illustrator, since all she got was some poorly printed material. At least she got the rights to it.
We'll see how things play out, but the creator might pick up some $ for the use of the image?
hehe... yeah.. i meant trout flies... can tie your own and stick on the hat band...
i looked on internet last night...and theres a few places in that town ( near dam )...some with pretty hefty packages with guide svc included, meals etc.
yours is the most reasonably priced that I saw... probably cause of the other stuff not packaged in already.
Now... if one of those other places wanted to expand.. they could have , for example, their main place ( the bucking brown trout with logo of cowboy on fish ).... and call YOUR place, ' the bucking brown trout WEST ' or something like that...( or..... the bucking brown trout on the butte ....better aliteration )
a few years ago I bought a surf casting rod and reel from cabellas.. and used to go out to montauk and stay for a week each summer ( late summer ).. and surf cast atlantic for striped bass etc.
since then i bought a casting reel and a couple other poles for casting... which I still havent used even ONCE.
thats the extent of my fishing experience .... other than going to long island sound as teenager and fishing for flounder ( back when the water was clean ... you could tell cause there were lots of horseshoe crabs at high tide mark etc ). we even caught so many flounder one day ( in 2 little rowboats with motors ).. that we ended up throwing some back in by having a fish fight...
drive boats fast past each other and throw fish at one another. Quite a few startled flounder made it back home that way.
ps... its the long island equiv for teenage boys to 'catch and release'
Don't you want to leave NYC for rural NM, and run a trout ranch? I'll pick up the tab for Coors lite, and even get a license for that stuff.
Im thinking about it... and have an offer...
I'll move there, live on the property in one of the coop things probably ( the smallest place there ), and you finance it. You dont want to run a credit check on me or here about how much money I dont have.
hold the mortgage and take payments direct from bookings etc and pay me nothing except what I need to eat... plus drink ...( coors lite ) ...probably around 2000 / mo. ( I plan on gaining weight )
you supply co. pickup truck good enough to use for airport shuttle and I use that only for work.
you pay for all expenses for at least 2 years related to upkeep of property and business expenses related to customers.
After that, re-negotiate my contract and deal with offers you get to sell etc.
I raise hell in town and get to know the indians and show them how to shoot with a bow accurately ( oddly enough they suck at this in general due to lack of ancestor teaching methods )
I also teach local indians how to really USE the irrigation technology the Navajo Dam project intended... to have farms that actually produce stuff for sale to the rest of the US of A. ( no pot and no nonsense ).
I expand the business on my own during the 2 year contract, getting some basic sailing boats onto the lake ( solings and swing keel boats etc ) to expand to pike fishing, day sailing and other activities north east of the enchanted area in question.
You live long enough to come visit the area at least 3 times per year during my 2 year contract... for no less than 4 days per visit... with or without guests and better half... and dogs etc... to basically get some idea what reality is.
this is a must. if you dont live long enough to do this the contract is null and void and you are a weasel.
after this.. i should have enough to buy the place outright and we can celebrate by eating some fat fish and drink some wine on the patio.. with a wood fire in back yard ( probably some creepy sage brush or mesquite or whatever native wood is around ).
( meantime... I will go visit some people at ESPN and negotiate secret deal to produce " Trout Fishing In America" , starring " Paris Hilton " etc... and raise hell with the locals.
the good part for you...
you get the number 1 place for trout fishing in america in a very short time frame... and the value of the property and business increases dramatically... in which case you sell it during my contract period and simply pay my contract ( 4,000 per day ? I forgot already )and sell the property.
Or.. after my contract is over you continue as is... nothing lost really.. as you are paying that much anyway for person in Bloomfield to travel to and fro and deal with unoccupied property upkeep etc.
you distance yourself from 'contract person' ( me ) in case there are court cases and legal problems re: me raising hell in navojo nation.
the good part for me....
I eat fish if i get really hungry.. and its commonly known to be " brain food " so.... i just get smarter the more hungry I get !
I dont have to live in nyc area anymore.. which ( no offense bloomberg ...) sucks.
I get to see stars at night.. instead of humiliating warped humans who think they are stars.
ps.. re: trout ranch
my personal feeling is ( due to nyc living and travels etc in world ) that there are often differences in socio-economic strata.. what is real to one group is not real to another. its very rarely as " different" as the media makes it out to be ( putting spin on things to suit some rhetoric ).
however, my ideal with a "trout ranch" is to get away from all of that as much as possible.
in a nutshell, the " management" of a trout ranch understands that the purpose of it is primarily focused on providing an atmosphere and starting point for fishing and being relaxed and dealing with personal skill vs. the fish... who are typically not too stupid or they wouldnt be a big fish to begin with.
since the business of providing that in an area well known for the best trout fishing in america is based on fishing, it also has to deal with ( the trout ranch ) the advertising and delivery of a fishing experience that lives up to that.
some will want to fish and get away from crowds (people) during the fishing experience. Some will want to be on vacation with their ' mates ' and eat well... a vacation of sorts.
some will want to horseback ride ( mostly women and kids ).. and some will want to go sailing maybe ( future captains of the oceans ).
If you want to deal with all this stuff its a full time job and also bothered by local and national economics ( who can afford to come from Germany to trout fish in America ? .. Let alone from Denver ? )
All I can say with absolute certaintly is THIS...
Fish are Fish.
The rest is how you deal with it.
From my point of observation (not really knowing that segment of the hospitality market), I think that you have nailed it completely.
There is a large segment of the potential market, that just wants to get away, commune with nature along a stream and catch fish. Those folk might be on vacation from a Manhatten investment firm, where the bonus is about 10x my annual income, but some might be taking a holiday from greeting at their local Wal-mart. What brings them is the stream, the rustic, laid-back nature of the places, and the fish.
Now, there were instances, where senior management types would pack up their "team," and bring them all down to the trout ranch for a week of "guy fun," and fishing. A very few even flew in via their private jets, complete with a chef. Still, they seemed to want "rustic," and fish.
For me, such a retreat would look different - The Enchantment, The Del, Dove Mountain Ritz, Blackberry Farm, etc., and would be repleat with luxury, great food, wine/liquor, probably golf and sitting around a giant firepit doing cigars and Port, after a day of meeting (maybe meeting on the golf course?). Different things completely. That is one reason that I am ill-suited to run a trout ranch. I just do not fully understand the market, and the incentives.
I think that I need to sell it to your syndicate, and let you guys make a fortune with it.
dont despair ===
you come from a place where ( after all ) " the animals " were not unknown...back in the day...
animals are not fish exactly... but they are animated.. alive....living things.. animals.
beatles are bugs... but animated too.
stones are just rocks.. and kinda dumb as rocks too... when you think about it.
crickets are bugs.. animated... alive.. fun to be around ( unless they are too noisey at night )
country joe and " fish " are fish.
you are no stranger to the world and how much of it is animated... and " we gotta get out of this place" might be a lament for young lovers stuck someplace.. but for others that place might be the perfect place to relax and go fishing.
but you cant just let things suck all your money outta your pocket... you have to do something.
at least protect the animated things of the world ( environment etc ) and know the money that gets sucked out is gonna benefit the animated things... including the passion of peoples who love the world and can have a chance to learn how beautiful it is.
which leads me to suggesting you put a billboard up on route 25 ... just before the new visitors to space get to the rocket ship...
when they get back to earth... trust me... they are gonna wanna go trout fishing , camping, hiking and get a good deal just a few hundred miles north of where they had the adventure of their lives.. to see how beautiful earth is... a birds eye view.... life changing stuff.
the animals had some strange set pieces and bad lip syncing going on.. wow.. those videos are 'terrible' !