28 Replies Latest reply: Mar 3, 2012 4:06 PM by peter/w RSS

    Poll: Do you like global flags?

    slarti3 Community Member

      Plain and simple: do you like the new flagging system in LR 4 beta?

       

      Advantage:

      - Flags can be used the same way as colors and ratings, therefore adding consistency.

       

      Disadvantage:

      - There is no way anymore to make a collection specific selection of photographs. Basically Collections have lost an integral character.

       

      Please share your opinion on the matter.

        • 1. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
          Lee Jay Community Member

          Sort of.

           

          I support the change, but it's not complete in my view unless they get written to the xmp block.

          • 2. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
            RikkFlohr Community Member

            I, too, am on the fence. I was bitten by their non-global nature before as much as I am now by their global nature. I guess I can work with either method.

            • 3. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
              WilderW Community Member

              Dislike global flags. Ideally this behaviour should become a settable preference.

              • 4. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                Jeff Schewe Community Member

                WilderW wrote:

                 

                Dislike global flags. Ideally this behaviour should become a settable preference.

                 

                Agreed...not sure what a global binary flag offers globally that a combination of ranking and labels doesn't. I like the fact that flags were Collection specific and as you'll find in LR 4, Collections have been elevated in importance.

                 

                But whatever...it ain't a hill worth dying on...change your habots and move on...(and learn to totall ignore flags outside of Collections–which is what I do).

                • 5. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                  Wolf Eilers Community Member

                  I'd like to keep flags acting locally.

                   

                  I have never been tripped up on the fact that ratings/labels are global and flags are local. I entirely agree that collections have lost a useful feature: the ability to flag based on a collection's context. For example, I might choose to create three collections from a photo shoot. One to contain images for a movie, the second for images in a slideshow, and the third for images to print. In each of these (LR3) collections I could flag my favourite images for the movie, the slide show, and for printing. Needless to say picks would be different in each collection. Flags in LR4 no longer allow me to do that.

                  • 6. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                    slarti3 Community Member

                    That's how I use flags because I like to put everything into a collection that fits its description. The flags come in very handy then to mark what I actually want so see/show.

                    • 7. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                      Jeff Schewe Community Member

                      slarti3 wrote:

                       

                      That's how I use flags because I like to put everything into a collection that fits its description. The flags come in very handy then to mark what I actually want so see/show.

                       

                      So, the workaround is to totally ignore Flags when in Library...use ranking and labels but not flags in anything other than Collections...then it pretty much works the same.

                      • 8. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                        slarti3 Community Member

                        Unfortunately, a photograph can be (and occasionally is) in multiple collections. Then the system falls apart again.

                        • 9. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                          Jeff Schewe Community Member

                          slarti3 wrote:

                           

                          Unfortunately, a photograph can be (and occasionally is) in multiple collections. Then the system falls apart again.

                           

                          Agreed...but users speak volumes...

                           

                          Careful who you listen to...

                          • 10. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                            Paolo Avezzano Community Member

                            I never used custom flagging per collection on purpose, 'cause I've always seen flags as global properties of the photo.

                            So yes, I do like global flags.

                            • 11. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                              john beardsworth CommunityMVP

                              On balance, just, I'd prefer them how they were. But try using stacking to identify local picks - stacking is now available in collections.

                              • 12. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                garethjjones Community Member

                                Having worked with both I find that I prefer the way they were. It may be just that I'm used to woking that way. How about letting the user choose which way he wants flags implemented, or even introducing a new flag class eg Local flag and Global flag

                                • 13. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                  99jon CommunityMVP

                                   

                                  I’ve only ever used flags globally for my initial picks and rejects. I like the fact that I can now turn the rejects into the new DNG lossy format rather than deleting them completely or making them into jpegs.

                                   

                                  So even though I’ve never used flags locally I can’t really understand why Adobe would remove previous functionality. They are well aware that this sort of behavior always upsets customers.

                                   

                                   

                                  • 14. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                    bengineer

                                    No, I don't like global flags. That's what ratings and colour labels are for. I extensively use flags for culling photos from within collections.

                                    • 15. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                      adventure_photo Community Member

                                      Yes, I like Global Flags for folders and local flags for collections.  The reason I like global flags for folders and glad they will be embedded is I flag my favorites from each shoot I do and I prefer to do that with flags as I use colors and ratings for other things.  Makes sense right?  Most people flag their best images?  Maybe not.  But I do and I want that info stored with the image so when I use Bridge or any other software, or if my catalog becomes corrupt, I will still be able to determine what my initial selects were.  One clear example is when I import a folder that was managed by LR3 into LR4, LR4 does not recognize my flags from LR3 and I'm going back and forth trying to figure out the best images to work on.  As Lee mentioned, I hope they are written to the xmp block.

                                       

                                      In collections, I like the idea of local picks.  Maybe a way to set that as a filtering option - Global flag, Local Flag or display both.

                                      • 16. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                        slarti3 Community Member

                                        Well, since Adobe is certainly not going to change the behavior in LR 4 final, all we can do is bringing up some new and simple ideas.

                                         

                                        I was thinking of something like starring photographs in Picasa, but separately for each collection. Because in my case, I only use local flagging to make an additional selection.

                                        So it would be very helpful to have just one single additional selection option for collections that can then be used for filtering.

                                        It doesn't sound too difficult to implement to me and I would really, really appreciate that as a compensation for stealing local flags

                                        • 17. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                          Herve_LL

                                          I really like LOCAL flags , everything else being global (stars, colours,..)

                                          I use them to build hierarchy of collections , for instance a wedding 1000 pics

                                          I flag up 500 and create a collection"first level" , inside that collection I can flag up 200 (as flags are local in LR3) and create "second level" collection , and so on .

                                          And finally I can use stars for the "most preferred collection"

                                          If flags stay global (and cannot be used as local in a preference setting) , we loose a powerful tool.

                                          • 18. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                            quenton8 Community Member

                                            I have always treated 5* (vs 0*) as a global flag -- I don't use 2,3,4 -- so I never missed global flags.

                                             

                                            So my call would be to keep the flags local so you can flag things "in this collection only".

                                             

                                            However, I won't decide to use/not-use LR4 because of how flags are done -- just maybe change a bit

                                            how I work.

                                            • 19. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                              Jeff Schewe Community Member

                                              Don't confuse "flags" for rating (stars) or labels. Labels and ratings are metadata that can be stored with the image. Those two can be exchanged with various applications. Flags are specific to Lightroom and are not stored in the image metadata. Flags are a Lightroom only function and as such I really wish tey had stayed specific to collections.

                                              • 20. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                                gatorjim2000 Community Member

                                                What was the rationale behind the chnage?

                                                • 21. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                                  Lee Jay Community Member

                                                  gatorjim2000 wrote:

                                                   

                                                  What was the rationale behind the chnage?

                                                   

                                                  Local flags confused the heck out of many people (why don't my flags stick?....).

                                                  • 22. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                                    gatorjim2000 Community Member

                                                    This is beginning to sound a lot like the "sticky filters" business. The LR team releases functionality that a lot of user find really useful, but some "confused" users make enough noise so the developers remove the functionality. Then the users that found it useful make a lot of noise so the developers put back the functionality along with an option that satisfies both sets of users.

                                                     

                                                    So regarding local/global flags, maybe the developers ought to make it an option now, rather than removing it and upsetting the users who aren't confused and will make a lot of unhappy noise after it is removed.

                                                    • 23. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                                      quenton8 Community Member

                                                      I use 5-stars for "keep it", actually for "this is a selected and processed photo to be printed/sent out etc etc".  I use "rating" because it IS global and if I have a Collection of "Liam's Birthday" or "Jesse's Ordination", then I can keep the "so-so" shots (which other people often want to see and disagree with me on selection), but still have the "great ones" marked.

                                                       

                                                      I can see a use for flags for marking things within collections -- but I cannot really see a use for them globally since they don't get stored in the sidecar files etc.  If they did in LR4, I might change from 5* selects to "flagged selects".

                                                      • 24. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                                        slarti3 Community Member

                                                        My workaround is going to be as follows:

                                                        Still in LR 3, for each collection I'm going to create two subcollections: 'selects' and 'rest'. Then I'm going to move my picks into the first, and the rest into the latter.

                                                        Quite a bit of work, but I don't yet have too many collections.

                                                         

                                                        So far, this seems to be THE ONLY way to simulate what local flagging could do in LR 3. If you know of an easier way, please let me know (always bear in mind that any photograph can be in any number of collections and have any flag status!).

                                                        • 25. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                                          C-OW Community Member

                                                          I don't see an either...or. I'd like to have both global and local flags!

                                                          Make the globals big and the locals small, use different colors, different icons or whatever.

                                                           

                                                          This discussion sounds a little like the PC vs. Mac battle. Both exist, both have their fans.

                                                           

                                                          Oli

                                                          • 26. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                                            Cornelia-I Community Member

                                                            That would be my wish as well: setting my preference in the catalog settings.

                                                            So each according to their own taste.

                                                             

                                                            Mine is local flags.

                                                            • 27. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                                              Cornelia-I Community Member

                                                              Quite generally I would advise Adobe to put an additional tab for "old experienced dogs" in catalog and/or application preferences:

                                                              Any settings should go in there, for which there is a new decision in favour of newbies to change a previous default.

                                                               

                                                              No newbie would have to look at it and get confused about the wealth of choices.

                                                              But every experienced user, who knows exactly what the setting is about, could stick to previous proven habits.

                                                               

                                                              This would pacify any such decision.

                                                              • 28. Re: Poll: Do you like global flags?
                                                                peter/w Community Member

                                                                I have stopped using the Beta for any actual work due to the changed flagging behavior. It makes my workflow significantly more inefficient. If local flags are not available again in the final release, I'm afraid I won't be buying Lightroom 4, as much as I would like to.

                                                                 

                                                                I'm also rather concerned about how all the local flags from a catalog created in an earlier version of Lightroom would be transferred. If flags are suddenly global, that would theoretically mean we'd lose all the countless hours (or even days) that went into creating local flags.