14 Replies Latest reply: Feb 6, 2012 3:07 PM by bakubo RSS

    PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question

    bakubo Community Member

      I have been using PSE 9 for more than a year, but just recently I decided to start using the Organizer too.  I have read the manual, but I am still having a bit of difficulty with filtering using keywords so I think I am probably doing something wrong.  For example, let's say I have photos that have tags for the state they were taken in:  Florida, California, Texas, etc.  Also, some photos have the tag Birds.  So, I want to find all the bird photos I have taken in Florida.  In the Keyword Tags panel if I select Florida and Birds it doesn't show me all the photos of birds in Florida, but instead shows me all the bird photos from anywhere AND all the photos taken in Florida.  I guess it is doing OR when what I want is AND.  In the Find Details (Metadata) window it allows you to choose AND or OR for metadata searches so clearly Adobe understands the concept and distinction.  Therefore, I am pretty sure that I have just not discovered where in Organizer I tell it to use AND instead of OR when doing keyword searches.  Can someone help me?  Thank you very much!

        • 1. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
          bakubo Community Member

          I accidentally created this thread before I was ready since I am still experimenting.  I have now discovered more info.

          • 2. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
            bakubo Community Member

            Okay, I have discovered more with additional experimenting.  What I said in my original post was accurate up to a point, but the Organizer behavior is actually more complicated and strange.

             

            If photos exist that have both the Florida and Birds keyword tags then Organizer uses AND so will display just the photos that have both.  But, if no photos exist that have both of those keywords then Organizer uses OR so will display all photos that have the Florida keyword plus all the photos that have the Birds keyword instead of displaying no photos so that you know that none exist with both keywords.  This is rather bizarre behavior.  From reading the manual it seems to say that Organizer will always do the second thing and never the first thing, but actually the manual is wrong.  I can't find a way to tell Organizer whether I want AND or OR, which is what most people would want.  Right now Organizer is behaving strangely and in undocumented ways, I think.  Now that I know what is happening I can at least get an AND, but I want it to also tell me if no photos exist with the keyword combination I have selected.  Also, there are times when I truly want an AND, but can't get it because Organizer may decide to use OR instead.

             

            I am still hoping that I have just not found the incantation that will allow me to tell Organizer how to filter with keywords.  As it stands now Organizer is doing a rather strange thing.

            • 3. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
              photodrawken Community Member

              I'm doing this with PSE10, so you'll have to see if it works in PSE9:  Using the Search field in the Options Bar, multiple tags are automatically combined with an AND, even if no photos have both tags.  I can type "OR" between the tags to get an "OR" search.

               

              It might have been something that was updated with PSE10, but you can try typing in the "AND" or "OR" between the tags to get consistent behaviour.

               

              Ken

              • 4. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
                bakubo Community Member

                photodrawken, thank you for your reply.  I tried typing keywords into the PSE 9 Organizer search field and it allows me to use AND or OR and in my quick experimentation seems to work properly.  Thank you for that information!

                 

                I am hoping there is a way to get this behavior by using the Keyword Tags panel also since typing is rather slow for me, but clicking on tags is very quick.  Also, in reality, I often want to filter with several keywords and some can be rather long, such as British Columbia, etc.  I hope I am not forced to type everything in the search field since just clicking on the desired keywords in the Keyword Tags panel is so easy and preferred.  I have my fingers crossed that someone knows how to do this.

                 

                Thanks again for finding a way to do it!

                • 5. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
                  photodrawken Community Member

                  bakubo wrote:

                   

                  I am hoping there is a way to get this behavior by using the Keyword Tags panel also

                  I don't think that's possible.  Reading the PSE10 Help file closely reveals that using the Keyword Tags Panel only performs an OR search.

                   

                  Added:

                  I just discovered that in the Search field you can combine terms with "NOT" to exclude tags.

                   

                  bakubo wrote:

                   

                  I often want to filter with several keywords and some can be rather long, such as British Columbia, etc

                  You only have to type in enough characters to uniquely identify the tag -- "Brit", for example.

                   

                  Ken

                   

                  Message was edited by: photodrawken to add comment.

                  • 6. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
                    bakubo Community Member

                    Ken, thanks again for your help.  I am glad that there is a way to do what I want even if it is somewhat more work than the nice Keyword Tags panel.  Still, most of the time the Keyword Tags panel filtering will be what I want so I won't have to type keywords all the time when I search.

                     

                    If Adobe developers and Adobe managers see this thread I would like to suggest something:

                     

                    In the Keyword Tags panel add a small control (maybe just something you click on to change from the default OR to AND or a pulldown menu to select AND or OR) that says to use AND or OR for the keyword search.  Yes, I know that there are lots of other more complicated combinations that some may want to use (and those can be used in the search field as Ken says) but just having a simple of choice of AND or OR for all the keywords would satisfy 99% of the searches, I think.  The current behavior where you use OR if there are photos that meet that search criteria, but then change to AND when there aren't any is strange, but I realize you have been doing it for some time and some longtime users probably expect it now.  Use of the new, small control might allow the typically more expected behavior of showing you when there are no photos that meet the search criteria you created.  It is confusing to silently change from OR to AND and give results when none are expected.

                    • 7. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
                      andaleebfatima1 Adobe Employee

                      Hi,

                       

                      I tested this on a small set of photos of my niece taken at my home and school. On selecting her name tag, grid showed all media having this tags. When I clicked 'School' tag, it showed all pictures of her taken at her school. So Organizer is performing an AND operation for me.

                       

                      Is your scenario the same?

                       

                      Thanks

                      andaleeb

                      • 8. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
                        Little_Pale_Face MVP

                        Hi,

                         

                        I think that Bakubo is correct in the second posting.

                         

                        If there are photos that match both tag criteria then it displays only them (AND).

                         

                        If there aren't any matches, then it displays photos with either tag (OR) - it then places a small circle with a tick in the top left corner of the thumbnail.- hover over it and it says "Close Match".

                         

                        Now, if you want to turn an AND into and OR, select "Show close match results" from the options on the search bar - the exact matches don't have the tick and the close matches do.

                         

                        I was testing on PSE 10 but I think it should apply to earlier versions.

                         

                        Good luck

                         

                        Brian

                        • 9. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
                          photodrawken Community Member

                          That's a good suggestion, but the Adobe product team rarely monitors this forum.  Use this forum:

                          http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/products/photoshop_family_photoshop_element s

                          to "officially" log in a request.

                           

                          Ken

                          • 10. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
                            andaleebfatima1 Adobe Employee

                            But if I see his own scenario, he's looking for Birds in Florida images. This search will have some results and so he should get an AND result rather than OR result.

                             

                            If no results are being returned by AND search, then Organizer shows OR result with the use case in mind that a user should atleast be able to view grid with either both or either of the tags, instead of showing an empty grid. By checking hiding best matches from Options menu, he can default the to an AND search, as you already told.

                             

                            Though I agree a freedom to select between AND and OR should be at user's discretion. Good suggestion

                             

                            Thanks

                            andaleeb

                            • 11. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
                              Little_Pale_Face MVP

                              Hi,

                               

                              The Find by metadata does give you the option of AND or OR searches and you can search on tags there - oh, and it doesn't need typing.

                               

                              Brian

                              • 12. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
                                andaleebfatima1 Adobe Employee

                                I agree.

                                 

                                And such searches can be saved as well. I think this sounds a good solution.

                                 

                                 

                                Thanks

                                andaleeb

                                • 13. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
                                  Little_Pale_Face MVP

                                  Hi,

                                   

                                  However, saving them does mean typing in a name

                                   

                                  Brian

                                  • 14. Re: PSE 9 Organizer keyword filter question
                                    bakubo Community Member

                                    LittlePaleFace wrote:

                                     

                                    The Find by metadata does give you the option of AND or OR searches and you can search on tags there - oh, and it doesn't need typing.

                                     

                                    Brian, coincidentally last night before going to bed I discovered that Find by Details (Metadata) could do this and I was quite happy.  I was planning to post it to this thread this morning and then discovered you had already posted it.  Thanks!

                                     

                                    Find by Details (Metadata) also allows a search to be combined with other filtering options such as ISO, camera, focal length, etc.  Before I found that you could combine keyword searches with photo data using Find by Details (Metadata) I thought there was no way to do it since I was disappointed to discover that if you select, for example, all photos that have 3 or more stars and using the Keyword Tags panel select all photos among those 3 star+ photos that are birds in Florida that you can not then use Find by Details (Metadata) to refine the search to all photos taken with a Canon camera (and/or a certain focal length, etc.).  I found that even though you had first limited the results to 3 star or higher photos and birds in Florida the Find by Details (Metadata) search for Canon would ignore that and return results for Canon from the whole catalog.  Fortunately, using Find by Details (Metadata) for the whole search it works!