1 2 Previous Next 48 Replies Latest reply: Feb 29, 2012 3:11 AM by Claudio González RSS

    Community Help Posts

    the_wine_snob CommunityMVP

      I have seen a few posts from the Community Help group/portal, that were placed in a few of the product forums. All that I am seeing are the link to an Adobe KB Article, that I assume points someone to a starting point, in answering their question, and in one, a reply, but not sure that that reply indicated that the linked article helped, or not. What I am not seeing is any reference to the original question.

       

      Pierre kindly responded that these posts are being generated, and populated to the appropriate product forum, and I think that is a great idea - sort of what most of us do here, when one has posted of a product problem, or question.

       

      This THREAD in the PrPro Forum, is an example, along with Pierre's comment to me.

       

      I do not know if perhaps I am just not seeing the original post/question (on Chrome on PC), or if something is missing, and the original question is not propogating in the Community Help post?

       

      In the Thread, you can see my initial Reply, and then Pierre's, and then my Reply to Pierre. The Adobe KB Article link, also shows that interaction, down thread. What I cannot find is the question, that initiated this. I feel that the Adobe KB Article will be helpful, on "How to Create a Title in PrPro," but cannot be sure.

       

      This question might just be about ME not seeing the question, that initiated the responses, or perhaps MY just not looking in the right spot - or, it could be that the question, that prompted the response post, is just not showing up, and something needs to be changed.

       

      I am not up on Community Help, so might just be missing something on my end. Looks like it might be a great idea, but seems that one piece is missing, or has not been implemented yet?

       

      Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

       

      Hunt

        • 1. Re: Community Help Posts
          PECourtejoie CommunityMVP

          Sorry, Bill, If there was some explanation to the users about the incoming changes, I definitively missed it. For the moment, it is only After Effects and Premiere that use this new system.

          The idea is to draw on the features of the forums (images posting, videos, etc.) and the other positive side effect is the expertise of all the forum regulars that can reply to the original question.

           

          There seems to be a problem somewhere, because in the tests I've seen, the original question does appear in both places. (and there is somebody that did one of such test questions very lately).

           

          Cheers!

          • 2. Re: Community Help Posts
            the_wine_snob CommunityMVP

            Pierre,

             

            Thank you. I am still trying to get my head around Community Help, and not finding THAT much. Searching the Adobe Forums, and Adobe.com, I mainly get links to Adobe Air.

             

            Luckily, Jerry.K (MOD in the PrPro forums), and John C (Adobe-Admin), have been responding within some of those PrPRo/Community Help threads, so I'm also picking up some info there.

             

            Seems to be a WIP (Work In Progress) at this point, and needs a bit more work. It appears that there is a problem with getting the original question to show up, and even one of the original posters commented that his question had been eliminated.

             

            Not sure how the Community Help will be implemented, and how it will either interface with, or replace the Adobe Forums, but am sure that we will all hear more, as time goes by. Right now, it seems to be a bit of a "pilot project," but still not sure of its intended implementation.

             

            Thank you,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Community Help Posts
              Captiv8r CommunityMVP

              Hi Hunt

               

              I've been watching this thread with interest.

               

              Personally, I have to say that I dislike Community Help as it stands. I dislike the viewer and overall presentation. It takes far too long to load up and present anything helpful. It's not friendly. It's not nimble. It's obtrusive. But that's just me.

               

              I'm also a volunteer moderator for Community Help for a couple of Adobe products. One of my peeves (and I'm guessing the reason behind this change) is that it becomes confusing to end users where they should go to ask for help with whatever they are using. In my mind, the ability to offer comments on the help is intended to allow expounding on something that may not have been explained well. Or to suggest that something that is missing be added to the help.

               

              Unfortunately I've noticed that many users discover this commenting ability and they choose to use it to ask for help when they really should be asking in the user forums. And it's frustrating when I see other moderators engage them and offer help there instead of properly directing them to the forums for proper discussion.

               

              Cheers... Rick

              • 4. Re: Community Help Posts
                the_wine_snob CommunityMVP

                Rick,

                 

                Thank you for those comments.

                 

                Can I ask a favor, please? How does one access Community Help? I have searched, and only get hits on Adobe Air, but nowhere, can I find how one gets to Community Help - but that might just be me. I'd like to take a look, and see what it's about. I know that Jerry.K, one of the PrPro MOD's, is working on it, as is John C, Adobe-Admin here.

                 

                Thanks,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Community Help Posts
                  PECourtejoie CommunityMVP

                  Hello, Bill, you do have a community help application installed with your Adobe software.

                  Some useful links on the topic: http://blogs.adobe.com/tcs/category/community_help

                  On my Mac, I just searched for it, and moved it to the dock. You can do that from the start menu on a PC as well.

                   

                  The online help files are also called community help, as they can be supplemented by the community.

                  • 6. Re: Community Help Posts
                    Claudio González CommunityMVP

                    Well, two of these Community Help messages have made their way to the Forum in Spanish. Here are my first impressions.

                     

                    1. I like the idea in principle, but not very much the way it is being implemented.

                     

                    2. First, these are being posted in a forum (the one in Spanish) that houses all Adobe products under the same roof, but without including any indication in their titles about which product they refer to. This forces one to open them to find out this, and then follow the included link to find what issue the article is addressing. Suggestion: as there are no mods in the Forum in Spanish, ask selected people to post details.

                     

                    3. Second, they are presented as ordinary threads, which makes it very easy to tranform them in endless discussions initiated by newcomers looking for help. Suggestion: close the threads except for selected people.

                     

                    4. The messages do not remain at the top of the list and can quickly go to the next page or, even worse, be archived. Suggestion: Create a new sticky folder/subforum with a descriptive title an keep a link at the top of the list of topics (like the one to the Report Spam thread).

                     

                    And that's enough as a start.

                    • 7. Re: Community Help Posts
                      Claudio González CommunityMVP

                      We now have three messages; and the link in the third takes one to the second page of the article in the second message. Not very useful, I would say.

                      • 8. Re: Community Help Posts
                        PECourtejoie CommunityMVP

                        Claudio, there is currently an issue that John Cornicello and Mark Nicholson are trying to fix. The question being asked is not displayed.

                        Indeed, for localized "all in one" forums, it would be useful to have the app name as a prefix of the discussion. I'll forward that feedback.

                        • 9. Re: Community Help Posts
                          Claudio González CommunityMVP

                          Thanks for the info, Pierre. It's nice to have you back and active around here.

                          • 10. Re: Community Help Posts
                            the_wine_snob CommunityMVP

                            Pierre,

                             

                            Thank you for that link. I will now explore it, to get a big of a "back story." I was only seeing one end of things, and as you point out, it is currently a "work in progress."

                             

                            Greatly appreciated, and I will echo Claudio's sentiment - nice you have you around.

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Community Help Posts
                              adobe-admin Adobe Employee

                              I believe that Jive has identified the issue of blank threads and developed a fix. Deploying it this evening will involve a bit of down time, probably around 30 minutes sometime between 6pm and 11pm Pacific Time.

                              • 12. Re: Community Help Posts
                                adobe-admin Adobe Employee

                                This issue appears to be resolved. Posts coming in from Community Help should now have a reply with the proper comment(s) from the Help system. If you continue to see any blanks please let us know.

                                 

                                Thanks!

                                • 13. Re: Community Help Posts
                                  Claudio González CommunityMVP

                                  Well, the post from Community Help that we were seeing in the Forum in Spanish are no longer there, so I cannot verify what has changed (except for their disappearing ).

                                  • 14. Re: Community Help Posts
                                    the_wine_snob CommunityMVP

                                    Here is a Video Lounge THREAD on the Community Help posts, that might be useful for those interested in the function, the intent and how the development is progressing.

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Community Help Posts
                                      john cornicello (retired) Adobe Employee

                                      Unfortunately, I'm seeing the same behavior today. A few CH posts with no replies. Back to support...

                                      • 16. Re: Community Help Posts
                                        PECourtejoie CommunityMVP

                                        Sorry, Claudio, I deleted the posts without any original question...

                                        • 17. Re: Community Help Posts
                                          the_wine_snob CommunityMVP

                                          John C.,

                                           

                                          I too have seen some of those. Guess that the "fix" did not hold, or maybe they were forum-specific?

                                           

                                          Thanks,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: Community Help Posts
                                            adobe-admin Adobe Employee

                                            Appears to be a different issue. Similar results, but a different cause. Still working on it...

                                            • 19. Re: Community Help Posts
                                              Claudio González CommunityMVP

                                              PECourtejoie wrote:

                                               

                                              Sorry, Claudio, I deleted the posts without any original question...

                                              A pity, Pierre. The articles were in Spanish, and this isn't at all frequent in these forums... Similar to the situation in the forum in French, I would guess.

                                              • 20. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                PECourtejoie CommunityMVP

                                                At that time, it was the guidance we received, to delete them, as the system was buggy. I don't know if John's post suggest that the comments would appear on existing posts, or if new posts would get the question.

                                                • 21. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                  Claudio González CommunityMVP

                                                  Yesterday we got a new post from Community Help in the forum in Spanish:

                                                   

                                                  http://forums.adobe.com/thread/959809?tstart=0

                                                   

                                                  As fas as I can remember, the only change with previous (and undeleted) posts is that this one has a descriptive title in Spanish. However, and as expected by me, the thread was promptly used to post an unrelated question and its answer(s). May I suggest again that these posts are either closed, or open only for posts from selected participants?

                                                  • 22. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                    PECourtejoie CommunityMVP

                                                    Claudio, this one seems to be working fine, in that the original question is there. Of course, as it was the case in the help files, the question might not be related to the article at hand, but it has been quickly answered.

                                                    In the past, those posts were confined to the community help (you can see that for the CS4 pages) and fewer people were answering them, and only with text. Now, the Community Help Moderators can use the features of the forum, other users can answer, and the forums get more visits/answers. The only downside I see is when people post corrections to the pages, or link to additional content. It might be confusing for the regular users of the forum, hence the explanation posts I made in some forums.

                                                    • 23. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                      Claudio González CommunityMVP

                                                      Pierre, I fail to see what is gained by Community Help by the addition of unrelated questions and answers -which can lead to long arguments...

                                                      • 24. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                        PECourtejoie CommunityMVP

                                                        Claudio, the issue was that the commenting system to the help files was meant to get user additions to the help files, with links to tutorials, corrections, and suggestions.

                                                        But many users started to use it as an help forum. Then it became the majority of the posts in help, being noticed only by the moderators, since other users might not know what page has a comment on. (unless they reverse-engineer the RSS feeds to the help files, but that is another story.)

                                                        Seeing that, and knowing that the user-to-user forums are meant to answer questions, questions in the help pages now open a discussion here, that is mirrored in the help files.

                                                         

                                                        Do you suggest that the discussion should not appear in ACH at all?

                                                         

                                                        Addendums to the help files can still be done here, and as you said, it will also benefit the users of U2U.

                                                        • 25. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                          Claudio González CommunityMVP

                                                          Pierre, I am almost a complete ignorant on the inner workings of these forums, so I may be asking the impossible. What I am suggesting is that the help files posted in the product forums are not open to everybody. Obviously they should be open to moderators, but as for participants, perhaps only to a selected group suggested by the respective moderators. Or maybe to participants with more than -say- 100 posts. My idea is to reduce as much as possible the possibility of transforming those helpful files into irrelevant and long discussions.

                                                          • 26. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                            Claudio González CommunityMVP

                                                            Last night a new CHP appeared in the Forum in Spanish:

                                                             

                                                            http://forums.adobe.com/thread/963410?tstart=0

                                                             

                                                            As there is first a CHP and then a question from a participant, both with the same posting date and time, I am confused. Is this the question that the CHP is addressing, or is this a case of a participant using a CHP as a thread to post further questions?

                                                             

                                                            I apologize if I am being more dumb than usual.

                                                            • 27. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                              Zeno Bokor CommunityMVP

                                                              Yep, nowadays when somebody posts a question on the help files their question is turned into a forum thread started by "Community Help" and their question is put as the first post in that thread. This way the question (and all the answers) are present in both the help files and the forum.

                                                              • 28. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                                Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                                                                I am with Claudio here: the appearance is rather confusing.

                                                                 

                                                                This is quite well expressed in post #2 here:

                                                                 

                                                                http://forums.adobe.com/thread/962626?tstart=0

                                                                 

                                                                I hope there is a way to change it.

                                                                 

                                                                By the way: are these threads the ones in which we shall enjoy the absence of points, or who will decide whether the questions have been answered?

                                                                • 29. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                                  Zeno Bokor CommunityMVP

                                                                  The Help Files was where the whole point system was first implemented so why wouldn't there be points awarded in those threads?:P Points are awarded as in any normal thread marked as a question, by the OP or by the moderators, it's just that the thread is also mirrored on the Help Files.

                                                                  • 30. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                                    Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                                                                    Zeno,

                                                                     

                                                                    The reason for my question is that the one with the question is not the OP: the ghostly entity Community Help is. So it seems that the one getting the help is in no position to communicate appreciation in other than words, just as in the days of the fair forums, and that the OP and the moderators are (one and) the same who will be judging the threads.

                                                                     

                                                                    The Help Files was where the whole point system was first implemented

                                                                     

                                                                    So it is no wonder they appear funny over here, see the link in post #28.

                                                                     

                                                                    It may be more tedious (for a while), but the way we do in this forum, sending posters to the right place, would seem a valid option, less tedious if the ones needing help are led to realize that they may find answers from other users to questions of/like their own.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                                      Claudio González CommunityMVP

                                                                      I agree on all counts. Except that, in their present form, CPHs drift down unless transformed in endless discussions, and so they can eventually make it to the Archives, and finally disappear. And, is it really easier to get a hit when performing a search if the answer is in a CHP?

                                                                      • 32. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                                        PECourtejoie CommunityMVP

                                                                        What would be the best wording?

                                                                        "The post below this one is a question or a comment posted in relation this page of the help files :"

                                                                        "The post below was posted on this page: "

                                                                         

                                                                        Nice humoristic banter, BTW, on the linked pages. Sorry, but the help file one might need some cleaning, so that only relevant posts show up.(posts might be moved to another thread, if funny/off topic threads are not frowned upon in the AI forums.

                                                                        (If not, there is the lounge)

                                                                        The goal is not at all heavy handed moderation, especially when there is a good ambiance in the forums, but for the help files to stay informative.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                                          PECourtejoie CommunityMVP

                                                                          Hi, Claudio. Threads might drift off the forums, but they stay on the help pages. Useful for relevant and on-topic posts. I don't know if they will be searchable by Google and co.

                                                                          • 34. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                                            Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                                                                            Pierre,

                                                                             

                                                                            Chatting and banter have formed an integral and vital part of the Illustrator forum(s) as long as anyone remembers, going back into the previous millennium; even the most serious contributors, and (earlier) hosts, have taken part from time to time.

                                                                             

                                                                            This may have been part of the reason that we have enjoyed a very helpful and friendly forum.

                                                                             

                                                                            The two (Win and Mac) Illustrator forums were seemlessly merged in 2009, with no complaints or grudges; I only realized when I saw the many unknown posters who obviously knew one another, and the different keystroke instructions.

                                                                             

                                                                            I remember no deleted posts, apart from the recent obvious spam.

                                                                             

                                                                            Therefore I am absolutely certain that any deletion/moving of posts in/from the Illustrator forum would be considered a hostile attack on our integrity.

                                                                             

                                                                            You may see clear signs of it already, in these two threads (the former linked to already):

                                                                             

                                                                            http://forums.adobe.com/message/4213337?tstart=0#4213337

                                                                            http://forums.adobe.com/thread/964087?tstart=0

                                                                             

                                                                            And as it appears, the first posters had been unaware of their being beamed  to another place, and just as mystified as the natives.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                                              PECourtejoie CommunityMVP

                                                                              I realize this, Jacob. But I was careful to state on the announcement, that threads from Community Help might need to be curated.

                                                                              I don't know how best to handle this carefully, I remember some issues with heavy handed moderation in the Ps forum.

                                                                               

                                                                              You think that even a movement of post would be taken as an attack? even if the reason is explained?

                                                                              • 36. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                                                Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                                                                                You think that even a movement of post would be taken as an attack? even if the reason is explained?

                                                                                 

                                                                                I am quite sure, Pierre. Continuance and coherence are seen as essential.

                                                                                 

                                                                                It may be more fruitful if those in need of help realize that they get it in the Illustrator forum, and that they can get help there with other things: they may wonder less, and they may enjoy whichever fun is made.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Is that not possible?

                                                                                 

                                                                                All that said, the first Community Help thread started OT because it was seen as OT in the first place, with no one knowing the context. If the first poster specifies the question, I am sure it will be back on track.

                                                                                • 37. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                                                  Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                                                  Yes, forum posts made in help or the forum are searchable by Google (as you may have found), however, comments in the old system were not.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                                                    Claudio González CommunityMVP

                                                                                    Pierre, I have just lost a long answer that was not posted because it did not have a title (I never had to add a title to an answer), and of course there was no auto saved copy of at least part of it. I will therefore try to reconstruct the basis of my wild idea, based on what I see in other (non-Adobe) forums where moderation is very heavy, but always with at least a short explaining sentence, and never anonymous.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Perhaps CH posts could be ended with something like this:

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    This help file was (written in response to)/(motivated by) the following question:

                                                                                     

                                                                                    (Full original message reproduced here, including original date and time).

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Messages complementing the information of this help file are welcome but

                                                                                     

                                                                                    messages not related with the main topic will be deleted.

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Just an opinion. Incidentally, in the forums I mention, no discussion regarding moderation is allowed. Any such discussion must be carried through private messages, involving other moderators if necessary. And there are no anonymous moderators in those forums; all of them are duly identified as such.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    This time I am saving a copy of my message before attempting to post it, just in case.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Community Help Posts
                                                                                      PECourtejoie CommunityMVP

                                                                                      Continuance and coherence are seen as essential.

                                                                                      What if the first post has the initial post as an image, and an explanation, sort of a carbon-copy of the original thread?

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Sorry, every forum is specific, but it sounds like the AI forum is an holy place worth more than the others... it is not meant disrespecfully at all, but I know you realize that all forums have ACH posts in there, and I was wondering why a special case should be made of a particular forum.

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